South Lakes Wild Animal Park Kadi, Sumatran tiger cub

[BongoHardwood]

Thanks, so the zoo itself can make the decision not to send the animals to another collection if they think for whatever reason it is not up to standard, and the stud book keeper would then have to respect the zoo's decision and the animals would not be sent.

As far as I am aware yes! As far as I can remember they did actually give an example of this happening with some animals they wanted to move on but I can't recall what species it was. Think it was a primate species, maybe a species of macaque...

 

[pipaluk]

We had a presentation on breeding and breeding programmes by Colchester zoo in a lecture and were told that a collection can refuse to move their animals if they deem the receiving collection's enclosure to be unsuitable or think an animal's needs would not be met.

South Lakes didn't even have an enclosure for the snow leopard, whatever the standard of other zoo's ones! Just don't understand why South Lakes get anything new sent to them by the studbook or holding zoos!?

 

[Larrikinlover]

Just getting back onto the situation regarding Kadi again... I have emailed the office a number of times since November regarding the whereabouts of the cub. On every occasion they have confirmed that she had moved zoo, but could not disclose which one, for understandable reasons. I have since emailed regarding the issue mentioned in this thread, but do not expect a reply...

Regarding the matter of whether or not they should have let people know- I understand that this is not information that the zoo is required to give out. However, as mentioned previously, the fact that they offered adoptions for the individual tiger would surely mean that this is now somewhat of a grey area. My problem with them witholding information lies with the adoption issue, the confirmation of her movement, and whether she died because of malpractice. Surely the death of a critically endangered species such as the Sumatran tiger should be publicly investigated?

I've been in touch with a journalist who seems to know something about the matter, and I will try and get hold of friends of a friend who work at the park. I'll let you know if I hear anything.

Attachments to individual animals may seem irrational, but it does happen. I think in this case answers are needed. I am unlikely to visit the park again myself, mainly because of the controversy surrounding Mr. Gill, other animals that have gone missing, and the issue of Kadi. I will however continue to support The Sumatran Tiger Trust and the great work that they do.

 

[lancashirelass]

Thanks for your post Larrikinlover - couldn't agree more with everything you have said!
I emailed the office last Tuesday (when I heard the news on Look North West) asking for the truth about what happened to Kadi and as yet am still waiting for a reply!!!!!
A lot of you have spoken about the Studbook - pardon my ignorance (I'm just a member of the public) but what is this and who is able to look at the information in it? Is it available to "joe public" or only to certain people within the zoo profession?
Surely someone in authority should know about this and investigate further??

 

[Jordan-Jaguar97]

Thanks for your post Larrikinlover - couldn't agree more with everything you have said!
I emailed the office last Tuesday (when I heard the news on Look North West) asking for the truth about what happened to Kadi and as yet am still waiting for a reply!!!!!
A lot of you have spoken about the Studbook - pardon my ignorance (I'm just a member of the public) but what is this and who is able to look at the information in it? Is it available to "joe public" or only to certain people within the zoo profession?
Surely someone in authority should know about this and investigate further??

A studbook is a registered document of all the pure bred Sumatran tigers in EAZA/AZA zoo's. It's not available online but if you ask around/email the studbook holder you may get a response.

 

[Mr T]

I have stood up for this collection several times but recent events and rumours (for which I think are possibly true) make me seriously doubt this institution.

Has the Kadi rumour hit the press yet? I think they would be very interested to hear about it and possibly the other instances that have been mentioned with animals going missing.

 

[ThylacineAlive]

At the risk of sounding like a broken record; deaths in mixed species exhibits happen in the worlds best zoos such as the macaque/bear exhibit at leipzig or the field exhibits at SDWAP.

Um... Can you give some specifics on the deaths at SDWAP? I've never visited and live on the opposite side of the country so am not sure but I'm pretty possitive that SDWAP doesn't have any mixed carnivore/herbivore exhibits.

Also, mixing species like Oriental Small-Clawed Otters, Brown Capuchins, agoutis, Brazilian Tapirs, and Andean Bears is just like mixing Cheetahs, Plains Zebras, Wolf's Guenons, and North American River Otters.

Oriental Small-Clawed Otters have been known to killed monkeys many times larger than capuchins. At the Bronx Zoo a Javan Langur was drowned by the otters that shared the exhibit. So, yes, animals are occasionally killed in mixed species exhibits but the difference between other zoos and South Lakes is that, when a carnivore kills the prey species in the exhibit, other zoos separate the species whereas David Gill simply makes up an excuse for the species disappearance and lets the situation persist.

~Thylo

 

[TARZAN]

Anyone surfing the net who comes across this thread would be forgiven for thinking they were reading a discussion from a group of anti captive animal /zoo people, not a group of zoo enthusiasts, and quite right, it is obvious that all is not well at this zoo, disregarding the sad, dreadful business of Miss Sarah McClay which is now being dealt with by the Cumbria police. Regarding the suggestion that Kadi has been killed by another tiger, if true this is not the first time something like this has happened at this zoo. Several years ago I recall watching an episode of Michaela Strachan's Animal Roadshow. This episode featured South Lakes, its owner, David Gills stated that a lioness had killed another lioness at this zoo, he stated that this was natural as these things happen in the wild. He also stated that it was quite in order to keep predatory animals with prey animals, i.e. tapirs and bears, as this was natural as in the wild. He is quite correct of coarse, these things do occur in a wild situation, but this is NOT the wild, these animals are living in captivity, in enclosures measuring a few hundred yards square in a zoo of fourteen acres in Dalton In Furness. As for accepting a snow leopard when they do not even have suitable accommodation to house the animal, this is not just a fault of Mr. Gills and his zoo, but also the relevant stud book keeper for allowing this transfer to take place, and also the zoo that supplied South Lakes with the snow leopard, for sending it to another collection that did not have the appropriate accommodation.You can get in to South Lakes free in the winter?, well I always went in September, however the way I feel about this place at present I will not be making a return visit and not one penny piece will they get.

 

[Brum]

Um... Can you give some specifics on the deaths at SDWAP? I've never visited and live on the opposite side of the country so am not sure but I'm pretty possitive that SDWAP doesn't have any mixed carnivore/herbivore exhibits.

They may not keep carnivores in the mixed savannah exhibits but they do keep Cape buffalo which are quite aggressive in a mixed enclosure. They also had to remove the Grevy's zebra to a single species enclosure due to fighting. And have you seen the horns on certain antelope species...

 

[Pertinax]

A lot of you have spoken about the Studbook - Is it available to "joe public" or only to certain people within the zoo profession?

A number of Zoo animal studbooks are available online, but I'm not sure the (Sumatran) Tiger one is. If not online they are more difficult to access and the relevant S/B keeper will sometimes only release the details to Zoo professionals etc.

The fate of 'Kadi' could take some months to be shown anyway as the data is collated over months/ a year or two, before an updated version is published.

I doubt any 'investigation' would be made into what happened to her- that is really the Park's own business- the fault really is in refusing to say where a high profile/'adoption scheme' animal has been sent to, or lying to cover up its death, whichever is the case.

 

[lancashirelass]

Kadi - the truth ... at last!!

Hi all,

Following all your comments I have emailed the EAZA regarding Kadi and have received an answer back from them today.

It has been confirmed via the EAZA programme that Kadi died last year at SLWP from a wound from an adult female tiger. The EEP coordinator was informed and the EAZA were aware at the time of death. It has been amended in the studbook.

So ... now we all know the fate of the beautiful tiger cub ... such a shame!

BTW, I am still awaiting a reply from SLWP ..... disgusting really isn't it???

Thank you all for your help and comments

 

[Lynne]

It,s a shame, I,ve never been to the place, but why cover it all up?

 

[TARZAN]

Hi all,

Following all your comments I have emailed the EAZA regarding Kadi and have received an answer back from them today.

It has been confirmed via the EAZA programme that Kadi died last year at SLWP from a wound from an adult female tiger. The EEP coordinator was informed and the EAZA were aware at the time of death. It has been amended in the studbook.

So ... now we all know the fate of the beautiful tiger cub ... such a shame!

BTW, I am still awaiting a reply from SLWP ..... disgusting really isn't it???

Thank you all for your help and comments

Well at least you know the truth now from an official source, sad as it may be, even though it was almost certain that young Kadi had died in this way I suppose you were always hoping that she may have been sent to another zoo and would be alive and well today. I think it is commendable that you have taken the trouble to find out what exactly happened to Kadi, as a sponsor you have had an interest in her life, and at the end of the day you have exposed the truth surrounding her disappearance from this zoo. I wonder if E.A.Z.A., B.I.A.Z.A. and the licencing department of the relevant local council are aware that South Lakes Wild Animal Park attempted to lead people to believe, including one of her sponsors that Kadi had been moved to another collection, when in fact she had been mauled by another tiger?

 

[Pertinax]

I wonder if E.A.Z.A., B.I.A.Z.A. and the licencing department of the relevant local council are aware that South Lakes Wild Animal Park attempted to lead people to believe, including one of her sponsors that Kadi had been moved to another collection, when in fact she had been mauled by another tiger?

They have certainly been caught out 100% with a blatant lie.

Much better to have simply told the truth in the first place- such accidents can happen(even if the wisdom of trying such a reintroduction might be questionable)- and would have potentially done them less harm than this might do!

 

[Sand Cat]

Hi all,

Following all your comments I have emailed the EAZA regarding Kadi and have received an answer back from them today.

It has been confirmed via the EAZA programme that Kadi died last year at SLWP from a wound from an adult female tiger. The EEP coordinator was informed and the EAZA were aware at the time of death. It has been amended in the studbook.

So ... now we all know the fate of the beautiful tiger cub ... such a shame!

BTW, I am still awaiting a reply from SLWP ..... disgusting really isn't it???

Thank you all for your help and comments

Well done lancashirelass on finally uncovering the truth - I'm very impressed with your great detective work and also impressed that EAZA responded to your query. Considering they're a huge European organisation I would imagine they get a lot more emails than South Lakes do!

Obviously its your call, but in your position I think I'd be spreading the word now about this. The incident with Kadi could maybe be forgiven, but to lie to supporters is absolutely disgraceful IMO and I bet if more people knew about this, it would change their views of this park considerably. SLWAP could be a brilliant zoo but as long as Mr Gill is running it and brushing everything bad that happens under the carpet, I can't see that happen and I would never want to visit it again after these latest shocking revelations.

 

[Sand Cat]

I see today the South Lakes Facebook page has been plugging David Gill's book with a large picture of the cover showing him holding Kadi as a cub... and to make matters worse, his fanclub are posting comments about what a great read it is and how 'honest' he is in the book. One person ever said they wish there were more people like David Gill in the world - a scary thought! Things like this really make me feel sick when we know the ugly truth.

 

[OrangePerson]

Was the cub being hand-reared?

 

[Jordan-Jaguar97]

Was the cub being hand-reared?

Hand reared after mother 'rejected' it.

 

[karoocheetah]

but the mother only rejected it as they took it from her for 'health checks' when it was so very very young and that's where his lovely poses with the cub come from - oh yes and the photo opportunities for his kids to get photographed with the cub too!! Putting a cub back in with it's mother after that - of course she was going to attack it!

 

[Bushy]

Just quickly read through this, I visited the park a few years back and wasn't exactly overwhelmed with the place... I like walk in enclosures but when I was there, the whole place was! The lemurs were running everywhere, one keeper even said they often climbed the perimeter fence and came back when they were hungry... not exactly something to be telling the public, the fact wild animals can easily get out of the place... I know it's only a lemur but they can give a good bite. I'm so shocked about this whole cover up and the book they posted really takes the mick. Ironic how its called " Nine Lives ". I felt like leaving a strong message on the post but I wouldn't want people to be offended, plus I'd rather not get banned on facebook. It's still sickening.