Auckland Zoo Kashin passes...

Okay this is from memory so if I get some details wrong I apologise in advance...

snowleopard said:
@dragon(ele)nerd: thanks for the link. Auckland Zoo is looking quite foolish at the moment, as the zoo declined the opportunity to receive elephants a few years ago and yet knew that Kashin was struggling health-wise. There has been indecision about whether to pursue an elephant breeding program, and with all of the delays the zoo is now left with a single female pachyderm. Any zoo keeping a solitary elephant is frowned upon in the 21st century, and if Auckland truly does go two years with only Burma then it will be a complete joke.
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The zoo declined the elephant because the one destined for them was temperamental and they regularly walk the elephants around the zoo and to play and work areas… Experts had advised that conservatively Kashin had at least 5 – 10 years to live and had scheduled for new elephants to be in new exhibits well before then… What delay..? A firm proposal was put before the council for a $13.5 dollar expansion and was voted on and supported on the same day…

The zoo really has no other option, since Burma was imported in 1990 MAF (NZ bio-security) changed the rules so any exotic species being imported for the first time (since the rule change) needs a whole heap of reports to be done which take a long time (about 2 years) including a Species Impact Report about the effects of if the species escaped and established itself in New Zealand costing $25,000 (real likely with elephants eh..?) this may seem excessive but given the fact NZ is the ONLY first world nation still with most of its economy based on its very fragile primary sector it makes more sense… Auckland Zoo recently exported an Orangutan to Florida under the new rules. The new paperwork took 3 years… So what would you have them do, put her down because they cannot import a companion for 2 years or export for 3..? Its all well and good to say they should have done this and that but getting funds out of politicans and paperwork past bueracrats in reality is quite different... The zoo is currently putting pressure on MAF to make an allowance in this case but they are notorious for inflexibility…

Kifaru Bwana said:
You will have to acknowledge that probably other factors played their part and somehow an expanded elephant exhibit was not perceived feasible at the time. Given that Auckland is not a particularly wealthy establishment, I can figure that ... well the investment and the long-term commitment needed might have been some of the stumbling blocks at the time.

I am still not sure if they really should continue ... or consider other species (obviously for a pan ARAZPA elephant programme it would be a bonus).
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It was and is feasible, Kashin got sick very quickly and passed much earlier than anticipated by the experts, they had planned a succession they’ve just been caught out…

Auckland receives funding from 6 District Councils and 1 Regional Council, plus a zoological society and private donations… It is the wealthiest zoo in NZ (except possibly Orana Park)…

The circus in NZ has complete control over Jumbo and isn’t going anywhere unless they say so…

Sorry to other members if I seem a bit militant on this but the Zoo has tried very hard to not only follow but create international best practice in elephant keeping and care, they were well aware of the issues with having such a small herd and we trying their best to get the exhibit required to avoid this very situation…
 
@NZ Jeremy: I know that you love Auckland zoo, and I have always respected your opinions on ZooChat, but the establishment dropped the ball in this situation.

If Auckland Zoo knew that they had a 40 year-old elephant that only had 5-10 years to live, wouldn't it have been advisable for the zoo to immediately obtain a 3rd elephant as a sort of insurance policy against being left with only a solitary pachyderm? That should have happened years ago, instead of hoping that Kashin could live for another decade. For example, the AZA (American Zoo & Aquarium Association) strongly urges its 218 members to hold a minimum of 3 elephants at one time. Not all zoos follow that mandate, as there are no fines or severe repercussions at this point, but it is generally frowned upon for any major zoo in the 21st century to have less than the minimum of 3 elephants. Auckland having had 2 was quite disappointing, but now with only 1 it is borderline disgraceful. The same goes for any zoo (Los Angeles, San Antonio, etc) that keeps a single elephant, so don't think that I'm just picking on Auckland. Anything less than 3 elephants these days should be actively discouraged, and the fact that it might take two years for another to arrive in New Zealand is depressing to hear.

Auckland Zoo had 2 elephants, which would be below the required minimum in North America, and thus the zoo should have obtained at least a third elephant many moons ago. Now of course Auckland is in a position where they should at least consider sending Burma away to another zoo and therefore have zero elephants until they are able to build a new exhibit and import a herd of the pachyderms. How easy would it be to send Burma somewhere so that she could interact with other elephants? Anything is better than leaving her alone for perhaps months or even years.
 
I always thought and still think it was a disgrace that they declined the young female from Thailand just because she was difficult to handle. Is walking elephants through the zoo and sticking to direct contact more important then getting a young companion for Burma and a future breeding female??? Hell NO!! They were mental to decline her just because they didn`t want to handle this one elephant in protected contact (that doesn`t require that many changes and there would have been plenty of time before the arrival of the elephants). It`s so sad that poor Burma has to pay the price for this incapacity now.
 
I guess my passion for the zoo doesn't allow me to look at the situation with neutrality...

I work a lot in local politics here in Auckland and getting politicans to move an inch on anything is like pulling teeth...

I'd like to think even if I wasn't "emotionally invested" in Auckland Zoo but a third party and had followed events as closely as I have it would be clear to me that the zoo since the early 1990's had acted at each step in what they believed was the best interest of the elephants, their mental and physical well being and that the history of the zoo (enclosure wise) and the history of NZ politics were the drivers of the unfortunate situation they find themself in now...

We shall have to agree to disagree...

As a side note they are having a memorial on Sunday which I shall attend and hopefully have more information (although the zoo is expecting to be at its 6,000 person capacity for the entire day)...
 
NZ Jeremy said:
I guess my passion for the zoo doesn't allow me to look at the situation with neutrality...

I work a lot in local politics here in Auckland and getting politicans to move an inch on anything is like pulling teeth...

I'd like to think even if I wasn't "emotionally invested" in Auckland Zoo but a third party and had followed events as closely as I have it would be clear to me that the zoo since the early 1990's had acted at each step in what they believed was the best interest of the elephants, their mental and physical well being and that the history of the zoo (enclosure wise) and the history of NZ politics were the drivers of the unfortunate situation they find themself in now...

We shall have to agree to disagree...

As a side note they are having a memorial on Sunday which I shall attend and hopefully have more information (although the zoo is expecting to be at its 6,000 person capacity for the entire day)...
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Don't worry ... I am wholly with you on this one. I agree to disagree with our esteemed other forumsters from overseas seeing it differently. There really is a different reality here that if not oneself completely immersed in local politics and events you cannot fully grasp all the issues involved.

I do have strong opinions on animal management and husbandry and like to discuss those with others on the forum. However I stop short of slamming Auckland Zoo for not taking in a female on the first Thai elephant import a couple years back up the line ... where valid arguements existed not to do so at that particular time.

Aside, as NZ Jeremy pointed out the life expectancy for Kashin was at least 5-10 years (after exhaustive health assessments) ... so the window was more or less open for the mid-term. Auckland Zoo had their new elephant exhibit and social structure plan already in place - at the pre-development stage of project plan formulation - anyhow. I cannot see that the unexpected death of Kashin ... would somehow change all the past actions and motivations and suddenly propel us into a totally different perspective and reality.

Let us just say we disagree on the basics here ... and will continue to do so for all eternity. ;)
 
Hindsight is an exact science.
 
Thankyou

I just read all the posts on this subject and want to thank NZJeremy and Kifaru Bwana for your comments.
I totally agree with all you two said (although I may be a bit biased!) Situations are never black and white, particularly when you are essentially council run, dependent on their decision making, and also shackled by MAF etc.
All I can say is that there is no doubt in my mind that everyone involved with this decision (right back from the beginning) has always done the very best they could. They have been attempting to do the right thing by Kashin and Burma for many years now and considering their very limited options.
THis is a tragic time for all who knew Kashin, and just know that plans are underway for a future for eles and a future for Burma. The zoo is doing everything humanly possible for the future of this species in NZ, and the welfare of Burma.
18000 people visited the zoo today, an overwhelming support and fitting send off for Kashy.
 
I have to say that anyone who doubts the motivations of the zoo just needs to look at the fact they closed the zoo on Tuesday out of respect and had a free admission day on Sunday to allow the public to say goodbye...

What other zoo in the world would lose two days of revenue out of love for a single animal..?

The zoo's actions over the last week have made me very proud to be a Friend of the Zoo, an Aucklander and a New Zealander... I have no doubt they will continue to induce those feelings in me in the future...
 
Have just heard the news after being offline for a week. Tragic news about her. I hope a new companion is found for Burma as soon as possible. RIP Kashin. :(:(
 
auckland zoo have posted a response to recommendations they take jumbo, the african elephant on their website...

Auckland Zoo The future of elephants

clearly, the loss of kashin has only strengthened their commitment to acquire more asian elephants.

i expect burma will be 30 or so before she finally gets some companions. even if the zoo was to concede her to an overseas zoo for her own short term wellbeing, it would STILL probably take years of paperwork.

sadly, it now looks like we have two elephants stuck solo in new zealand.
 
Here is the zoo's $13.5 million dollar expansion plan:

aucklandelephants.jpg
 
Burma is unable to breed. Do you think this could possibly impact on her being taken on by other zoos?
 
jay said:
Sorry I'm also feeling a bit dumb, is the existing elephant area where the blue writing is that says "elephant cow paddock extension"?
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No, it is currently located from that blue area on the right across to where the yellow square indicative of the new bull elephant house is in the left of shot and from then from the yellow square indicative of the existing elephant house's extention in the top of the shot down to the white line showing where the edge of the new bull elephant enclosure in the bottom...
 
jay said:
And now the animal rights activists have waded in against the expansion. Whatever the rights or wrongs of Auckland Zoos plans are I do wish that animal rights groups would come up with some original ideas and stop parroting whatever PETA says.
Activists oppose Auckland zoo's elephant plan | Stuff.co.nz
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Activism and advocacy are great institutions within any democracy. Only, animal rights folk generally do take their passions way beyond the road of reason. Really, there is no point in talking to them.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Auckland Zoo development plan for elephants. Yet the animal rights activists still protest as basically they want the rest of us not to see any elephants anywhere - now that is counter to democracy and reminiscent of authoritarian rule. As I am a free thinker cum cosmopolitan, I hate - probably like most other people - to be told what to think ... No, thank you ... I can happily look after myself!

So, I do hope Auckland Zoo will ignore the animal rights folk and just engage with the Council + all and sundry whom are relevant to the local Auckland community in the public debate presenting the valid arguements for a new and expanded elephant exhibit at Auckland Zoo. That will entail at some point another import of elephants from the same range country the last import came from.

There is nothing wrong in that incidentally. Thailand has only 1,200-1,350 wild elephants (and that is even an educated guestimate) with more or less 2,500+ elephants in private hands. Very few of these are in regular zoos or in the elephant sanctuaries. And within the latter category very little planned captive-breeding is taking place and only recently.

As other zoos within ARAZPA have plans for Asian elephants, the import should be an official ARAZPA activity to give it more political clout. In my mind, ARAZPA should adopt Thailand and perhaps another IndoChinese nation as the focus of its in situ elephant conservation programme. That will also assist greatly with public perceptions on elephants in our zoos.
 
Acoording to the zoo website Burma is coping well given the circumstances and they reckon that the paperwork that should take up to 2 years could be done in as little as 6 months. This could hopefully mean that in a year or 2 another elephant can be imported.
Auckland Zoo Kashin Memorial Day
 
I really hope that Auckland Zoo will go ahead with its plan of getting a breeding herd of elephants, and that they can go ahead with the plan sooner than they thought. I would be even happier if not only they go through with this plan, but also continue to do their amazing public impromptu elephant encounters! I really feel sad for the zoo's elephant keepers (Andrew and the team) for their massive loss and I can only imagine how they would be feeling after losing someone that they love and worked with very clcosely nearly every day. R.I.P Kashin.
 
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