ZSL Whipsnade Zoo Keeper hurt by elephant in Whipsnade

[easytigger]

but I cannot forbid those that ridicule fc due to a lack of knowledge and experience.

Gajah, I respect your passion for your work, I have sampled both F.C. and P.C. and, I'm open to learning as I go. I have witnessed brutality and the signs of brutality in FC along the way, I have also seen elephants previously dominated as a result of previous collections/ keepers husbandry techniques transform into different animals over a relatively short period of time in a P.C. environment

I guess we will never agree on this subject, there are pro's and con's to each practise.

So should our paths cross I'll buy you a beer and shake you hand if you'll do the same..?

 

[elliegirl]

You will require venous access if any attempt is to be made to save the calfs life and from a pc point of view I believe this would be very difficult to achieve and to begin with the calf will need to be restrained so that again will be difficult if not unachievable in pc management.As I originally said in the beginning both forms of management have merit depending on the situation but I cannot forbid those that ridicule fc due to a lack of knowledge and experience.Every credit to you and your team for achieving 40+ behaviors in pc but as you know this is rare rather than the norm.

Based on your treatment I still dont think we would have any problem getting the calf the drugs needed. Our calves are trained for blood draws and there are options. Restraining the calf only causes stress and stuggle. We use our relationship and positive reinforcement to get the behaviors we need. I once trained a calf to lay down for a surgery after he had been darted. He was upset that something had "bit" him... but came over to me for comfort. His mother was in the yard, while he was in a stall. All I am saying is that while you feel people have misconceptions about free contact there are a few misconceptions about pc as well. One of them being that we cant provide the same level of husbandry care. I disagree. My only point is that I know if we were faced with the situation you described we would find a way to get the animal what it needed.

I do wish, however, you could come and see our elephants. I think it would give you a new prospective on what can be achieved through pc.

 

[Jarkari]

In this situation there is no doubt the keeper would be dead if that's what the elephant wanted.

 

[John Dineley]

In this situation there is no doubt the keeper would be dead if that's what the elephant wanted.

As an old friend - now sadly gone - said who had working extensively training marine mammals, primates and elephants:

"If the dolphin misbehaves - you go off with the bucket..If the elephants misbehaves - you go off in a bucket"

The situation with elephant training now is very much as marine mammal training was many years ago. What can now be undertaken using just positive reinforcement is quite incredible and would have blown the minds of many 'old school' trainers years ago.

 

[Gajah69]

I have to respond to easytigger first and then elliegirl.
Tigers don't get herpes virus and die within 48 hrs of presenting symptoms and as a cub they are far less dangerous than a 6 mth old elephant that has not had any training other than via a pc wall as for Gorilla's haven't worked them so can't comment.Also the options become reduced with an animal that is already compromised health wise.Sedations are not the sole answer as over sedation can occur presenting further problems and rectal enemas also don't allow the herpes drugs to cycle quickly enough.The elephant and veterinary staff faced with this dilemma need to be flexible and skilled enough to deal with this situation in a fc manner so as to attempt to save the calf.There is very little time to rewrite management practices.It needs to be done and ready in advance.
Elliegirl,I think you may respond differently when you have faced the situation I presented.I have not said that blood draws can't occur but when you are trying to deliver herpes drugs,fluids and also plasma over a period of up to 30-45 minutes without restraint then I think that unless your calf has been conditioned to anything similar then no chance.Also I think that all pc elephants should be conditioned to restraint for any veterinary possiblity.Bulls are restrained for semen collections so why not everyone else?.I am not and haven't ever said that pc doesn't match up.It is appropriate for each collection and like I originally said I wish that zoo's could evolve and learn to use both forms of management.Obviously not in my lifetime though.