Taronga Zoo Keeper in injured by Elephant at Taronga
- Thread starter Monty
- Start date
Animalgeek
Well-Known Member
Oh wow how Terible hope she survives. Does it state any where who the elephant was ?
yes it does, in every one of the articles Monty posted links to.
Animalgeek
Well-Known Member
Oh right Chlidonias sorry I was skim reading lol
Interesting that this was a young bull born here. I was recently reading Dan Koehl's blog and read how elephants born in captivity are more dangerous than wild caught ones. There was records of many captive born elephants becoming to dangerous to handle and in those days killed as they were worthless if unable to be handled. Presumably the elephants handled from when they are born consider people as equals and therefore treat them like another elephant. The familiarity leads to elephants trying to be dominant which is not good for peoples health.
How will Australian zoos cope if they breed a lot of elephants which are protected contact only. Will that be sustainable in city zoos with limited space.
How will Australian zoos cope if they breed a lot of elephants which are protected contact only. Will that be sustainable in city zoos with limited space.
It is very insensitive to speculate. Imagine if it were your family member involved in such an incident. You have no idea what it takes to care for elephants and like so many feel qualified to make assertions on the future upon which you speculate, only in question. This person is fighting for their life and you talk with such disregard. I find this so disrespectful but not surprised in this age of media that we all live in. I hope that the person involved recovers firstly and that we all take a breath that we are alive and can wake tomorrow and contribute without narcissm.
Cheers
Animalgeek
Well-Known Member
What age are young elephants supose to or will leave there mother because Pathi harn is only what 2 and a half right is he older enough to move if that was the case
ZYBen
Well-Known Member
I haven't activly joined a discussion here in quite a while. But I fully agree with Monty's view. Gajah69, with Monty being a total 'elephant outsider' even he is free to give his views.
In the works by behaviour scientists like Dr Susan Friedman we look at what can be measured and observed in a situation and Monty is doing just that. By baseing what we know on assumed knowledge and preconcieved ideas it only sets us up to fail.
I respect that this may be a very touchy subject if a family member was involved, but where was this newly found sensitivity when the Elephants were removed from Stardust, the big cat incidents at Zion, the list goes on and on.
We design our opinions by what we can see and observe, so why should a Government Zoo be excluded.
I have never worked Elephants, but I have worked many other animals and as we all know, incidents aren't caused by 'Bad' animals but by 'Lazy' Trainers.
In the works by behaviour scientists like Dr Susan Friedman we look at what can be measured and observed in a situation and Monty is doing just that. By baseing what we know on assumed knowledge and preconcieved ideas it only sets us up to fail.
I respect that this may be a very touchy subject if a family member was involved, but where was this newly found sensitivity when the Elephants were removed from Stardust, the big cat incidents at Zion, the list goes on and on.
We design our opinions by what we can see and observe, so why should a Government Zoo be excluded.
I have never worked Elephants, but I have worked many other animals and as we all know, incidents aren't caused by 'Bad' animals but by 'Lazy' Trainers.
I reinterate my insensitive comment."Lazy trainers'. You too labelling someone when you weren't there and you don't have all the facts. This is my issue,speaking/speculating of something when you have no experience and weren't there. I also think if Monty wishes to respond he can without being propped up by an administrator of this forum. I haven't said anything about it being a government zoo or any reference to the other incidents. My comment was specifically directed at Monty's rapid response to an incident that has left the keeper in a critical condition. Where is the humanity?. Maybe after you work elephants and have been exposed to a similar incident, your opinions would be different.
I don't believe Monty was being insensitive in his comments, nothing he said was about the keeper. Most of what he said was repeating another discussion which was based on records (facts). He made two speculations, which are reasonable. He may be wrong, but those speculations weren't insensitive. And neither were his last two (valid) questions.
Having said that, ZYBens generalisation that incidents are the result of laziness is quite insensitive IMO, especially considering the keeper in question has been working elephants for the last decade and definitely knows what she is doing.
Hix
Having said that, ZYBens generalisation that incidents are the result of laziness is quite insensitive IMO, especially considering the keeper in question has been working elephants for the last decade and definitely knows what she is doing.
Hix
Don't worry I will respond, and I will never need prompting to do it, and if I felt the need I would be insensitive, but in this case was not.
My so called "rapid response" speculated nothing and only provided links to a story I had just heard about on the news, which is very important to members of a zoo forum.
I later speculated on causes mentioning information I had recently read.
As for hand raised animals being more dangerous I have first hand experience with several species and see no reason Elephants would be different. Many people are killed by a pet bull, deer or even sheep and these tame animals are much more dangerous than a less tame one due to their lack of fear of humans and their belief they are an equal.
I had a pet fallow doe who's fawn was born in my back yard and became very tame even though he was raised buy his mother. I would never hand raise a male deer of any species as they all become killers in the rut. When this fawn grew up he became very dangerous and it was not worth the risk of keeping him. Luckily he dressed out at almost 50kg and at around $4 kg, meaning I had $200 to make me less sad at having to get rid of him.
All of us here at the Darling Downs Zoo send our best wishes to Lucy and our hope that she has a speedy and complete recovery from her injuries.
Our thoughts are also with the elephant team at Taronga at this challenging time.
Our thoughts are also with the elephant team at Taronga at this challenging time.
Thankfully Steve you have shown those who feel compelled to comment,how to respond appropriately. You have worked elephants and truly understand the complexity of the situation. I concur with your sentiment.
Cheers
I hope the victim will be out of the woods soon and make a speedy recovery, but I am not at all surprised that someone got badly injured by an elephant in Taronga. This was expected to happen with so many elephants incl. young bulls in direct contact.
I disagree that it is disrespectful to discuss what happened. In contrary the consequences of this accident need to be discussed right now before the a keeper gets killed by Pathi Harn or another elephant in Taronga. Or Melbourne, I am pretty sure that they keep all females and calves in direct contact too.
Neither this accident nor Helen Schoefield`s death earlier this year in New Zealand were unpredictable nor unavoidable.
I disagree that it is disrespectful to discuss what happened. In contrary the consequences of this accident need to be discussed right now before the a keeper gets killed by Pathi Harn or another elephant in Taronga. Or Melbourne, I am pretty sure that they keep all females and calves in direct contact too.
Neither this accident nor Helen Schoefield`s death earlier this year in New Zealand were unpredictable nor unavoidable.
nanoboy
Well-Known Member
What's the contact between keepers and elephants in Germany like?
On a side note, is there direct contact between keepers and hippos at zoos? I would imagine not. Maybe the same approach should be used with elephants? I am just wondering what elephant interaction 'best practice' is.