Keeping invasive introduced species in Australian zoos

Tiger91 said:
Foxes are kept most people do not have the room, you need special licensing to keep them as they are a kill on sight feral type deal. If you want to keep them they have to be fully contained in an essentially a giant aviary type cage. Most people dont have that room. But i have met a few people over the years who have kept the odd fox. Usually finding an abandoned kit and raising it.
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I've heard the same - essentially due to them being a high risk species they require a lot more 'licenses' to be able to hold them. I know of a few people who tried to acquire some as 'pets' but couldn't it's just too difficult considering all the regulations that are in place.

I imagine the same would be the case for major zoos and there'd be little interest in accommodating such species when they should essentially be focusing on other 'priority' species. Camels are quite easy to just throw in a mixed species paddock and advertise them as 'ambassador animals'. There would need to be much more investments in say foxes.

So whilst I do think it would be a pretty cool idea to have a 'Feral animal' themed precinct, however you can see why zoos have little interest in that when they can instead focus on natives/more appealing exotics.
 
Tiger91 said:
Foxes are kept most people do not have the room, you need special licensing to keep them as they are a kill on sight feral type deal. If you want to keep them they have to be fully contained in an essentially a giant aviary type cage. Most people dont have that room. But i have met a few people over the years who have kept the odd fox. Usually finding an abandoned kit and raising it.
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I'd rather have one Red Fox on exhibit than the excess 2-3 Meerkat exhibits some Zoos now possess. Variety in species is more interesting to me, filling empty enclosures with excess already displayed animals i.e. Meerkats, Tamarins, and Marmosets is a lazy practice IMO (Just chuck them behind the scenes). I understand Red Foxes are of no conservation value, but I don't think I've ever seen one alive for more than 10 seconds. Most people don't see them alive and those who do see them fleetingly.
 
Swanson02 said:
I'd rather have one Red Fox on exhibit than the excess 2-3 Meerkat exhibits some Zoos now possess. Variety in species is more interesting to me, filling empty enclosures with excess already displayed animals i.e. Meerkats, Tamarins, and Marmosets is a lazy practice IMO (Just chuck them behind the scenes). I understand Red Foxes are of no conservation value, but I don't think I've ever seen one alive for more than 10 seconds. Most people don't see them alive and those who do see them fleetingly.
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100% this.
 
Swanson02 said:
Monarto has never held Camel (to my knowledge). Odd because Camels were instrumental in the construction of the overland Telegraph/Railway to Darwin, it'd be the perfect opportunity to hold them to teach South Australian history!
Saying all this I was thinking the other day about our invasive Red Fox.
Foxes are an anomaly to me, they are the only mammalian invasive species that are neither kept as pets nor displayed in zoos. Like literally every other invasive can be your pet/livestock (Rats, Cats, Rabbits, etc) or are displayed in at least a few Zoos/Wildlife Parks (Sambar, Rusa, water buffalo, etc.)
Why don't we display Foxes in Zoos? I couldn't name a zoo that has ever held Red Fox?
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My first visit to Monarto back in 2004, they were offering camel rides - i didn't have a ride myself, so i don't know where they went, but i took photos of the camels waiting to be ridden.
Several wildlife parks in WA keep Red foxes, including Caversham. I remember seeing them and feeling quite repulsed by them sitting there so calmly - i have to chase them away from my aviaries quite often.
 
Astrobird said:
My first visit to Monarto back in 2004, they were offering camel rides - i didn't have a ride myself, so i don't know where they went, but i took photos of the camels waiting to be ridden.
Several wildlife parks in WA keep Red foxes, including Caversham. I remember seeing them and feeling quite repulsed by them sitting there so calmly - i have to chase them away from my aviaries quite often.
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Dromedary camels are popular with the general public as ABC animals. As I previously mentioned, the majority of Australians live nowhere near their wild range in Australia, so they’re as much a novelty as they are to New Zealanders and those visiting from Asia or Europe, also bearing in mind numerous European holders also have the Bactrian species.

It’s been two decades since New Zealand’s last camel died (breeding previously ceased in the 1990’s) and a number of Orana and Hamilton’s visitors ask about the possibility of getting more (unfortunately they can’t be imported).

Calmsley Hill City Farm, Caversham and Cooberrie are all holders of red foxes. I’ve seen them in the wild in England and have no objection to seeing them within an Australian captive setting (for education purposes); but acknowledge the resentment for this invasive species with those who own poultry farms or aviaries.
 
Astrobird said:
My first visit to Monarto back in 2004, they were offering camel rides - i didn't have a ride myself, so i don't know where they went, but i took photos of the camels waiting to be ridden.
Several wildlife parks in WA keep Red foxes, including Caversham. I remember seeing them and feeling quite repulsed by them sitting there so calmly - i have to chase them away from my aviaries quite often.
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Interesting to know. I rode a camel at Taronga as a small child in 2002 - I'm not sure if it was a regularly-offered thing or I just happened to be in the right place at the right time. There is a photo somewhere of me on the camel outside the chimp exhibit - the camels were housed with oryx in an exhibit in the top corner of the zoo, where some of the lion exhibit/BOH lion facilities are now.
 
Swanson02 said:
I'd rather have one Red Fox on exhibit than the excess 2-3 Meerkat exhibits some Zoos now possess. Variety in species is more interesting to me, filling empty enclosures with excess already displayed animals i.e. Meerkats, Tamarins, and Marmosets is a lazy practice IMO (Just chuck them behind the scenes). I understand Red Foxes are of no conservation value, but I don't think I've ever seen one alive for more than 10 seconds. Most people don't see them alive and those who do see them fleetingly.
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I think I'm quite lucky in that there are a fair amount of foxes living around where I live. I've seen a fair few at night (but not for extended periods as you say).

Funnily enough, I know this conversation was initially in the Werribee thread and Werribee also struggles with a feral Fox population that dominates the surrounding area. They've had to invest in a lot of infrastructure to keep these foxes and pests out and used to talk about this on the bus just before passing over the Werribee River as you passing through an area which they call their 'feral' zone; essentially the only place in the zoo where those species can have access to.
 
Abbey said:
Interesting to know. I rode a camel at Taronga as a small child in 2002 - I'm not sure if it was a regularly-offered thing or I just happened to be in the right place at the right time. There is a photo somewhere of me on the camel outside the chimp exhibit - the camels were housed with oryx in an exhibit in the top corner of the zoo, where some of the lion exhibit/BOH lion facilities are now.
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I remember seeing Camel rides advertised at Taronga - even on the map at one point? (although I could be remembering wrong)

A lot of private facilities still operate Camel rides for quite a cheap price.
 
Abbey said:
Interesting to know. I rode a camel at Taronga as a small child in 2002 - I'm not sure if it was a regularly-offered thing or I just happened to be in the right place at the right time. There is a photo somewhere of me on the camel outside the chimp exhibit - the camels were housed with oryx in an exhibit in the top corner of the zoo, where some of the lion exhibit/BOH lion facilities are now.
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It would have been a paid encounter most likely
 
Jambo said:
I've heard the same - essentially due to them being a high risk species they require a lot more 'licenses' to be able to hold them. I know of a few people who tried to acquire some as 'pets' but couldn't it's just too difficult considering all the regulations that are in place.

I imagine the same would be the case for major zoos and there'd be little interest in accommodating such species when they should essentially be focusing on other 'priority' species. Camels are quite easy to just throw in a mixed species paddock and advertise them as 'ambassador animals'. There would need to be much more investments in say foxes.

So whilst I do think it would be a pretty cool idea to have a 'Feral animal' themed precinct, however you can see why zoos have little interest in that when they can instead focus on natives/more appealing exotics.
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It's essentially like keeping a Sri lankan leopard. Fully enclosed metal enclosure above a certain size. Basically can't take them out. They need to be completely inescapable. If a zoo is going down a cage style enclosure there are other more enriching species then a fox. Most general zoo goers would complain about foxes in zoo's.
 
Tiger91 said:
It's essentially like keeping a Sri lankan leopard. Fully enclosed metal enclosure above a certain size. Basically can't take them out. They need to be completely inescapable. If a zoo is going down a cage style enclosure there are other more enriching species then a fox. Most general zoo goers would complain about foxes in zoo's.
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I also don't think there would be that much interest in them tbh. Even the unusual looking 'fox on stilts', the Maned Wolf rarely attracts any attention from the general public.

Foxes are also nocturnal and a notoriously very shy species so wouldn't make the best display animal too.
 
Tiger91 said:
It's essentially like keeping a Sri lankan leopard. Fully enclosed metal enclosure above a certain size. Basically can't take them out. They need to be completely inescapable. If a zoo is going down a cage style enclosure there are other more enriching species then a fox. Most general zoo goers would complain about foxes in zoo's.
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I see your analogy to the enclosure, but I think SL Leopards are a fair bit different and higher risk than foxes .. haha
 
baekho100 said:
I see your analogy to the enclosure, but I think SL Leopards are a fair bit different and higher risk than foxes .. haha
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It's not the risk of danger its the risk of escape. Any Fox that is captured is deemed needed to be killed or kept without ability to escape. Which means they are basically kept like large predators.
 
Jambo said:
I also don't think there would be that much interest in them tbh. Even the unusual looking 'fox on stilts', the Maned Wolf rarely attracts any attention from the general public.

Foxes are also nocturnal and a notoriously very shy species so wouldn't make the best display animal too.
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Most visitors if they go near manned wolfs just think they are a giant fox, which is why they probably dont actually attract huge numbers of visitors right of the bat. I feel like once people learn what they are they become more popular.

But just as water buffalo can substitute for African buffalo, manned wolf can essentially fill in for foxes as they are literally a red fox with long legs.
 
steveroberts said:
Hey out of interest/big curiosity: do you fin dholes to be a more intriguing animal to see in comparison to maned wolves? I dont think anything you have written above implies you do. I'm actually just generally curious about personal opinions of the two species when thinking about comparitevely (my personal opinon is: I cant choose one over the other - they are both very very cool canids and animals in general).
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I personally like both, im surprised at how small dholes are in real life, especially when you compare them to other wild dog species like hunting dog, dingo etc. I am also quite partial to manned wolves, they comically look like a fox on stilts. If I had to choose id say manned wolves.
 
steveroberts said:
Maned wolves are so cool hey, just really really cool. About 15 years ago saw some photos of some Ussuri (sbsp) dholes and was at first take aback at how much bigger and more robust they were (forgetting that in that north-east area of Asia/Eurasia was very common i.e Siberian/Amur tigers etc, Amur leopards might be the exception but much denser thicker coats. But Australia's climate is not a good fit for Ussuri dholes unless National Zoo & Aquarium Canberra considered them (and they're doing great with maned wolves so 'don't try to fix what is not broken' right).
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upon my recent visit there were no maned wolves on display at the National Zoo and Aquarium or the Jamala Wildlife lodge.
My information may perhaps be wrong but may I suggest you double check @steveroberts
~ E
 
steveroberts said:
Yup you're right. Maned wolves not there anynore I was wrong, my mistake, was incorrect, had forgotten are not there anymore (and probably havent been for a while).
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Jambo said:
They had two males from Altina who arrived in 2015 (Alpha and Juanito).

Alpha passed away soon after (circa 2017) and Juanito was returned to Altina as a result.
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Juanito was then transferred to Adelaide Zoo in 2018, but as of November 2024, Adelaide only had a female (Ninka) suggested Juanito has since died or transferred out (possibly back to Altina).

He was born 2014, so it’s not difficult to imagine he’s passed on as the Adelaide pair (half-siblings) appeared to get on well and Ninka is past prime breeding age.
 
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