Killer whale kills trainer at seaworld!

phoenix said:
no - they are arguing that the reasons for keeping them in captivity do not justify keeping them in captivity.

tell me sealion -

what have seaworld done for orca conservation?

and what evidence do you have that the orcas at seaworld are healthy and happy?
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>Cetaceans are known to commit suicide if they are sad/depressed etc. (See Ric O'Barry's experience with Flipper/Hugo @ MS.)

>They often refuse to perform if they are unhappy. (Lolita at the Miami Seaquarium has been in a tiny tank for almost 40 years and refuses to perform if her show is altered in any way.)

There are plenty of other examples.

SeaWorld & Busch Gardens Conservation Fund | Home Page
CONSERVATION MATTERS - Conservation Fund


"1. Most people do not have the opportunity to observe animals in the wild. In a 1995 Roper Poll, 87% of those interviewed agreed that visiting zoological facilities was their only opportunity to see wild animals such as killer whales. The unique opportunity to observe and learn directly from live animals increases public awareness and appreciation of wildlife. In the same Roper Poll, 92% of those questioned agreed that zoological parks are a vital educational resource."
Quoted from: Killer Whales: Conservation and Research

They've brought orcas into public view. Millions of people who would have otherwise not known or cared about such animals because they don't live on their doorstep, have got the chance to view and interact with them. It's the same with dolphins. All the conservation that is now going on to help cetaceans in the wild needs public backing, if people can get up close to these animals in captivity they'll be more willing to support such causes for animals in the wild. (E.g. If Free Willy had not been made, the millions of dollars would not have been raised to release Keiko.) If seaworld didn't exist, the orca would just be another random animal to many Americans. Thanks to it's large presencei in the entertainment industry, it has thrown Orcas into the public spotlight.
Research can also be much more thorough in captivity than in the wild. For example, it is much easier to study the anatomy of a whale in captivity than in the wild. (See last link for details.)

If the majority of people thought that such parks were bad, they wouldn't exist. -Cetacean keeping is an expensive business.

Another article that people might want to see: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/25/earlyshow/living/petplanet/main6241962.shtml
 
Why don't you try living in a swimming pool for five years and tell me how you like it. You are putting your needs before a living feeling creature. Selfish.
 
CritterBlog said:
Why don't you try living in a swimming pool for five years and tell me how you like it. You are putting your needs before a living feeling creature. Selfish.
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You could say the same about any other captive animal. (In which care I think you may be on the wrong forum....)
 
CritterBlog said:
Why don't you try living in a swimming pool for five years and tell me how you like it. You are putting your needs before a living feeling creature. Selfish.
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Your very much on the wrong forum if this is your view. It's not just cetaceans, it's all captive animal whether it's an insect all the way up to Elephants etc. Elephants=Cetaceans in my view. Please don't make me pick apart the anti-captive arguement.
 
No you are quite wrong, Sealion. I just have a problem with certain species being held in captivity. If an institution can meet an animals needs, I have no problem with them. SeaWorld cannot. We agree to disagree.

I don't know if any of you got to watch the testimony given at the congressional hearing last week, but here is a link to submitted testimony by experts. Not as lively as the televised stuff, but interesting none the less. Dr. Naomi Rose made everyone else look like amateurs....in my opinion. :)

Committee on Natural Resources
 
Guess what? SeaWorld and many other places like that CAN meet an animals needs just as many zoo's apparently meet Elephant's needs. I have a massive problem with Octopus in captivity, because there is nothing else like it. However Elephants and something like an Orca are around the same kind of mark.

I wasn't able to watch the hearing (I'm in the uK) I wish I'd been able to. If only Jack Hanna had been there...
 
Deviant*Strain said:
Guess what? SeaWorld and many other places like that CAN meet an animals needs just as many zoo's apparently meet Elephant's needs. I have a massive problem with Octopus in captivity, because there is nothing else like it. However Elephants and something like an Orca are around the same kind of mark.

I wasn't able to watch the hearing (I'm in the uK) I wish I'd been able to. If only Jack Hanna had been there...
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It seems to be working for me. (It is 2 and a half hours long so I don't think i'll be watching it all!)

Your view on Octopi is interesting, why exactly do you believe that? I don't really know much about them...is it because they are so difficult to cater for? They are very strange but fascinating creatures!
 
CritterBlog said:
No you are quite wrong, Sealion. I just have a problem with certain species being held in captivity. If an institution can meet an animals needs, I have no problem with them. SeaWorld cannot. We agree to disagree.

I don't know if any of you got to watch the testimony given at the congressional hearing last week, but here is a link to submitted testimony by experts. Not as lively as the televised stuff, but interesting none the less. Dr. Naomi Rose made everyone else look like amateurs....in my opinion. :)

Committee on Natural Resources
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Fair Enough.

I think they should be looking into the educational/risk values of the shows rather than the actual keeping on the animals. Many other dangerous animals are kept in captivity, but are not "played" with.
 
Sealion, Octopus in captivity don't survive for any great deal of time and nor do they breed (if they do it's extremely rare and doesn't cater for the taste of aquaria) so like 99% of Octopus in captivity are removed from the wild. They are also often kept in the same kind of tank as other fish, but they are highly intelligent and (like Orca's etc) they need mental stimulation which isn't always cattered for.

Orca's and Dolphins aren't 'played with'. They are trained like many zoo animals are. You don't "play" with the ocean's top predator you interact. You know the risks, you know they're big immensely powerful animals and Dawn knew this well. Don't get me wrong, her death was a tragedy. SeaWorld do provide educational shows, however the turn out isn't as high as it is for say Believe. Water work with the Orca's will resume, why punish a whole group of individuals who haven't done anything wrong? It's stupid for anyone to think water work will end. They immediately stopped all contact and that drove me insane. The orca's (especially animals like Corky of SW San Diego) were seeking contact and it was stressing them out. Thankfully contact is back and things seem to have gotten better.

What ever happened with Tilikum will stay known to SW and especially Tilikum himself. He can't tell us what set him off. Unless the other trainers spotted it before Dawn did. Pony tails always intrest Orca's. The calves generally mouth hair to find out what it is but after that ignore it. However because Tilikum didn't have the training to handle himself with a trainer in the water, his idea of testing would've pulled Dawn straight in the water and probably broke her neck (I can't see the coroners report, my computers rubbish atm). Like a small bite from a Great White Shark can kill humans, not in malice because they need to taste to figure out what they're eating.

:S The newsfeed isn't working for me... damned computer.
 
Deviant*Strain said:
Sealion, Octopus in captivity don't survive for any great deal of time and nor do they breed (if they do it's extremely rare and doesn't cater for the taste of aquaria) so like 99% of Octopus in captivity are removed from the wild. They are also often kept in the same kind of tank as other fish, but they are highly intelligent and (like Orca's etc) they need mental stimulation which isn't always cattered for.

Orca's and Dolphins aren't 'played with'. They are trained like many zoo animals are. You don't "play" with the ocean's top predator you interact. You know the risks, you know they're big immensely powerful animals and Dawn knew this well. Don't get me wrong, her death was a tragedy. SeaWorld do provide educational shows, however the turn out isn't as high as it is for say Believe. Water work with the Orca's will resume, why punish a whole group of individuals who haven't done anything wrong? It's stupid for anyone to think water work will end. They immediately stopped all contact and that drove me insane. The orca's (especially animals like Corky of SW San Diego) were seeking contact and it was stressing them out. Thankfully contact is back and things seem to have gotten better.

What ever happened with Tilikum will stay known to SW and especially Tilikum himself. He can't tell us what set him off. Unless the other trainers spotted it before Dawn did. Pony tails always intrest Orca's. The calves generally mouth hair to find out what it is but after that ignore it. However because Tilikum didn't have the training to handle himself with a trainer in the water, his idea of testing would've pulled Dawn straight in the water and probably broke her neck (I can't see the coroners report, my computers rubbish atm). Like a small bite from a Great White Shark can kill humans, not in malice because they need to taste to figure out what they're eating.

:S The newsfeed isn't working for me... damned computer.
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Oh ok, I knew they were intelligent, but not about the lifespan/breeding part. I have seen them a couple of times in captivity. I watched a bit of it, but as it is a court-type event, everything is quite longwinded so it takes a while to get the gist of what each person is saying as they have to introduce themselves and their work etc.

I think the seaworld accident was purely that- an accident, and an obviously sad one. It's a risk that comes with the territory when you work with large/dangerous animals. One good thing that comes from such events is that they keep parks on their toes when it comes to safety and regulations etc. Only minor things are usually be adjusted- as Deviant*Strain said, I don't think it's a cause for ceasing all waterwork at any such park.
 
sealion said:
>Cetaceans are known to commit suicide if they are sad/depressed etc. (See Ric O'Barry's experience with Flipper/Hugo @ MS.)

>They often refuse to perform if they are unhappy. (Lolita at the Miami Seaquarium has been in a tiny tank for almost 40 years and refuses to perform if her show is altered in any way.)

There are plenty of other examples.

SeaWorld & Busch Gardens Conservation Fund | Home Page
CONSERVATION MATTERS - Conservation Fund


"1. Most people do not have the opportunity to observe animals in the wild. In a 1995 Roper Poll, 87% of those interviewed agreed that visiting zoological facilities was their only opportunity to see wild animals such as killer whales. The unique opportunity to observe and learn directly from live animals increases public awareness and appreciation of wildlife. In the same Roper Poll, 92% of those questioned agreed that zoological parks are a vital educational resource."
Quoted from: Killer Whales: Conservation and Research

They've brought orcas into public view. Millions of people who would have otherwise not known or cared about such animals because they don't live on their doorstep, have got the chance to view and interact with them. It's the same with dolphins. All the conservation that is now going on to help cetaceans in the wild needs public backing, if people can get up close to these animals in captivity they'll be more willing to support such causes for animals in the wild. (E.g. If Free Willy had not been made, the millions of dollars would not have been raised to release Keiko.) If seaworld didn't exist, the orca would just be another random animal to many Americans. Thanks to it's large presencei in the entertainment industry, it has thrown Orcas into the public spotlight.
Research can also be much more thorough in captivity than in the wild. For example, it is much easier to study the anatomy of a whale in captivity than in the wild. (See last link for details.)

If the majority of people thought that such parks were bad, they wouldn't exist. -Cetacean keeping is an expensive business.

Another article that people might want to see: Jack Hanna "Takes Hat Off" to SeaWorld - CBS News
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Oh dear.... how easily people believe whatever they find on the internet... the suicidal dolphin O’Barry mentions lived into her late 40s. As for the other important sounding sentences. You have no idea what your talking about. Repeating online biased garbage does not make you an expert, it’s laughable actually
 
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