King Cheetah.

Dawn B said:
Oh dear oh dear Taun. :rolleyes:
IF you read my posts correctly, you will see that WHEN I was told that they occur naturally and are NOT "different" that I said why were they not being included in breeding programs? NOWHERE after finding out they were the SAME species did I said they should be specifically breed to conserve them alone or as a separate entity!!
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Could you please point to this post then?
 
taun said:
Could you please point to this post then?
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Of course. :)

King Cheetahs are merely colour mutations of cheetahs, research now shows that they can be found in mixed litters along side 'normal' cheetah
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This was written by "Easytigger" Since knowing they were the same species I am intrigued as to why they appear to be opposed by people.

Since then I havent said they should be specifically conserved or at any time since said they should be specifically bred for the pattern alone.
 
Dawn B said:
This was written by "Easytigger" Since knowing they were the same species I am intrigued as to why they appear to be opposed by people.

Since then I havent said they should be specifically conserved or at any time since said they should be specifically bred for the pattern alone.
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I don't think anyone is against them, I am not but if they were bred specific for this then I have a problem (exaclty like the "white" tigers).
 
Let me try to put the brakes on this escalating debate. NO ONE (as far as I know) anywhere in the world is inbreeding king cheetahs specifically. They come mostly from DeWildt in South Africa, a few from Hoedsruit in South Africa, both VERY REPUTABLE breeding and conservation centers. DeWidlt has close to 100 cheetahs and the kings are a small percentage which are bred with non-kings (but often king gene carriers). They carefully manage genetics and are actively involved in rescue and rehabilitation/release of wild cheetahs.

This whole debate is a non-issue, people are creating a problem in their minds that in reality does not exist. The two king cheetahs in the U.S. are both non-breeding, and I think (not sure) the same is true for the one in Germany and the one in Australia.
 
There is a theory that King Cheetahs are actually an example of evolution in action, and they are eventually going to evolve into a new species which will be taxonomically separate from the spotted cheetah.

As such, captive breeding of selected individuals would greatly increase such a change, but not necessarily to the animal's advantage.

Cheetahs possess such a narrow gene pool due to the huge calamity that struck the species and nearly wiped it out, that is part of the breeding problem, in the wild and in captivity.

There was also a "Woolly Cheetah" that existed in the late 19th Century, one of which I am led to believe was exhibited at London Zoo, although this particular variant has not been seen for many years. I will have to check my cryptozoology sources for more information on this.
 
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doesnt the white tiger naturaly occur in the wild as its a mutation of the normal gene? its just they dont get the chance to survive. If this mutation didnt naturaly occur would we have been able to get a captive population. If kings where mass produced like the whites then the same inbreeding would occur
 
bloodycurtus said:
doesnt the white tiger naturaly occur in the wild as its a mutation of the normal gene? its just they dont get the chance to survive. If this mutation didnt naturaly occur would we have been able to get a captive population. If kings where mass produced like the whites then the same inbreeding would occur
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It is but they have been bred with Amur Tiger to make them bigger and look more impressive to zoo visitor`s,as a result all White Tigers are Hybrids.
 
Arizona Docent said:
Let me try to put the brakes on this escalating debate. NO ONE (as far as I know) anywhere in the world is inbreeding king cheetahs specifically. They come mostly from DeWildt in South Africa, a few from Hoedsruit in South Africa, both VERY REPUTABLE breeding and conservation centers. DeWidlt has close to 100 cheetahs and the kings are a small percentage which are bred with non-kings (but often king gene carriers). They carefully manage genetics and are actively involved in rescue and rehabilitation/release of wild cheetahs.

This whole debate is a non-issue, people are creating a problem in their minds that in reality does not exist. The two king cheetahs in the U.S. are both non-breeding, and I think (not sure) the same is true for the one in Germany and the one in Australia.
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Individual in Australia is dead, I believe.

I would concur that the DeWildt facility is world-class with both breeding and releasing a number of endangered southern African wildlife.
 
Gary said:
....There was also a "Woolly Cheetah" that existed in the late 19th Century, one of which I am led to believe was exhibited at London Zoo.........
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Flower (1929) records that a London Zoo cheetah, from South Africa, purchased 29 May 1877, was the type specimen of the “Woolly Cheetah, Felis lanea”
 
taun said:
I don't think anyone is against them, I am not but if they were bred specific for this then I have a problem (exaclty like the "white" tigers).
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Thanks Taun. I think we are singing from the same hymn sheet now :) Since knowing they are the same species, I too wouldnt want them bred specifically for coat pattern.

Interesting answers folks, to which I am very grateful. :)
 
Arizona Docent said:
NO ONE (as far as I know) anywhere in the world is inbreeding king cheetahs specifically..
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As said before: 3 (1 male, 2 sisters) carried the gene which is recessive. Unless unrelated captive cheetahs that have the gene are discovered (if someone know new unrelated captives that carry the king gene have been discovered please say it) the only way to get the kings is if breeding male and female that originate from the original 3. That's inbreeding and even worse because of the problems the cheetah species already had with inbreeding. People can manage all they want but with 3 original (2 which were sisters) carriers of the king gene there's no way to get around it.
 
I know for sure there was one wild-born king cheetah from Kruger National Park that was caught later and added to the captive breeding program.
 
Arizona Docent said:
I know for sure there was one wild-born king cheetah from Kruger National Park that was caught later and added to the captive breeding program.
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I would be very interested in a reference. I know wild kings have been seen in Kruger since the three captives were discovered to have the king gene but not that any of those Kruger animals were captured. After all, Kruger is THE top priority national park in South Africa and being allowed to capture a threatened species in the park just to preserve a colour aberration in captivity sounds extremely unlikely.
 
whynot said:
could you tell me the reference to this fact, or how you know it?
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The three (1 male, 2 sisters) original carriers of the king gene has been reported widely in just about any literature dealing more deeply with the king cheetah and published since the mid 80s. For example in book 'King Cheetah: the story of the quest' by L. G. Bottriell. But I have still not been able to find anything confirming that wild kings have been brought into captivity (from Kruger or elsewhere) since the three carriers of the king gene were discovered in 1981.
 
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As for wild-caught king, I distinctly remember reading it a few years ago in what I think was a reputable source, but the problem is I don't remember what that source was. So I guess I shouldn't have made that earlier post if I can't back it up.

The only mention I found on the internet was the following, which actually claims there were two wild-caught kings. But this reference is not a first-hand account and seems to be just hearsay, so I don't know how reliable it is: The King Cheetah
 
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