When did they make the transition to PC?
Zoo Knoxville Knoxville Zoo elephant keeper killed
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When did they make the transition to PC?
I do not know of any institutions in which species is a factor regarding managment. It is either A. A managment decision by those in charge, such as by the zoo director/board of directors, or B. determined on an individual elephant basis, decided upon the animal's behavior and/or past circumstances.
Last I've seen, Cincinnati uses FC with their three cows, and PC with Sabu. There is even a video with the zoo's director out in the yard patting one of the cows on the side talking about how it's safer for the staff to freely contact the cows, but that they never do that with Sabu. Sabu is under high security at the zoo it seems. His yard is enclosed with tall metal fencing, while the cow yard doesn't have any fencing at all around it besides a few logs and hot-wire . He is also not allowed in the main indoor paddock that has public access.
I'm not sure about Columbus, but I think they use PC.
I'm not sure about Columbus, but I think they use PC.
How about we stop focusing on the risks for humans for a moment (although these incidents certainly highlight those) and take the animal welfare angle? Working elephants free contact should be banned because it involves physical punishment, aversive treatment, intimidation, cattle prods, hooks, pain and fear (No, it doesn't only go on in circuses). It scares me that facilities in USA, where zoos appear incredibly evolved compared to the rest of the world, still allow this old-school, inhumane and dangerous practice.
It's rather astonishing that over and over again, someone has to be killed for an institution to change over to PC. Clearly 95 % safer to humans and 100 % more humane for the animals.
Anyone who's got any experience with free-contact elephant 'keepers' know it is them personally who have severe problems with accepting a protected contact system of work - not the animals. It might appear to us that these keepers are aware of the risks and accept them - but as much as they themselves would like to believe they are; they are often just victims of their own false feelings of being invincible. Once they have witnessed or had a 'near miss' accident (and they happen all the time, but of course we don't hear about them
, many of them NEVER go back (let's call it a wake-up call?).
I would love to see this discussion swing more in the direction of animal welfare, although to me, just like the safety issue; It's a no brainer!
It's rather astonishing that over and over again, someone has to be killed for an institution to change over to PC. Clearly 95 % safer to humans and 100 % more humane for the animals.
Anyone who's got any experience with free-contact elephant 'keepers' know it is them personally who have severe problems with accepting a protected contact system of work - not the animals. It might appear to us that these keepers are aware of the risks and accept them - but as much as they themselves would like to believe they are; they are often just victims of their own false feelings of being invincible. Once they have witnessed or had a 'near miss' accident (and they happen all the time, but of course we don't hear about them
, many of them NEVER go back (let's call it a wake-up call?).I would love to see this discussion swing more in the direction of animal welfare, although to me, just like the safety issue; It's a no brainer!
You haven't really understood anything that real elephant people have said about hooks, have you?
For someone who works so closely with elephants you seem very quick to discredit them their intelligence along with that of your fellow free contact colleagues.
I can only guess you haven't done it for long enough to create your own experiences, rather believing the hype of what other people tell you.
Erm.. like what? 'They are an extension of the arm?' Sure.
Oh, and btw. What's a 'real' elephant keeper?
How about we stop focusing on the risks for humans for a moment (although these incidents certainly highlight those) and take the animal welfare angle? Working elephants free contact should be banned because it involves physical punishment, aversive treatment, intimidation, cattle prods, hooks, pain and fear (No, it doesn't only go on in circuses). It scares me that facilities in USA, where zoos appear incredibly evolved compared to the rest of the world, still allow this old-school, inhumane and dangerous practice.
It's rather astonishing that over and over again, someone has to be killed for an institution to change over to PC. Clearly 95 % safer to humans and 100 % more humane for the animals.
Anyone who's got any experience with free-contact elephant 'keepers' know it is them personally who have severe problems with accepting a protected contact system of work - not the animals. It might appear to us that these keepers are aware of the risks and accept them - but as much as they themselves would like to believe they are; they are often just victims of their own false feelings of being invincible. Once they have witnessed or had a 'near miss' accident (and they happen all the time, but of course we don't hear about them
I would love to see this discussion swing more in the direction of animal welfare, although to me, just like the safety issue; It's a no brainer!
Rubbish! Most zoos have both FC and PC. Your comment "anyone who's got experience with free contact elephant keepers knows it is them personally that have severe problems with accepting protected contact system of work - not the animals" Is utter rubbish. I have worked with an elephant I would much rather have worked protected contact, but it was not possible. I also know of one elephant who has shown a slump in character, not as excited to see the keepers, not reacting as happily since being changed over to protected contact. When her previous owners come to visit she'll run up and down the fence trumpeting and calling and always stands as close to them as the fence will let her.
Oh - so the poor dumb 'keepers' don't really know what's what?
Have you ever seen a modern ankus close up?
Which may be more related to her bond with her former owner then the management system, if it is true. Elephants can be touched and cuddled in pc, and the pc training is actually more interesting for them - they have to think and learn something new, while most direct contact training is repeating the same lame commands every elephant is teached as a calf. Lifting left leg, lifting right leg, lifting trunk, back, wow, really enriching and stimulating - sarcasm off. So I can`t see a reason why an elephant should have a more enriched life in free contact, unless the keepers are too lazy or too limited to start a proper enrichment program. Oh, and if an enclosure is so small and boring that the keepers feel the need to take the elephants out for walks, the zoo should very seriously consider if they shoudl keep elephants at all.
LBerggren, thanks for your comments and I agree, I have spent many hours watching elephant keepers working in free contact, and from what I have seen in almost all zoos that use free contact, I do not believe the "the hook is just an extension of the arm" rubbish either. If that was true, the iron hook at the end wouldn`t be needed and a bamboo stick (as used in target training) would satisfy.. but you can prod an elephant with a bamboo stick hard enough...
Why are FC elephants only taught the same boring commands and PC elephants are taught new ones. That statement doesn't really make sense. You can still teach an FC elephant new things.
Iron hook? try aluminium in alot of newer ankus'. bamboo doesnt have a hook on the end. that's why it isn't used. The way the modern ankus is designed makes it difficult to use it to cause pain. you would have to ram the spike (which is blunt) very very hard into the elephant or hook it very hard. It isn't about pushing and pulling on the elephant. I used to be against the use of ankus'. I tried a 5 foot bamboo cane. It resulted in the elephant getting confused and an assitant mahout having his arm ripped off.
I recall a famous circus trainer stating that the whip was merely an extention of the arm, Mary Chipperfield was her name.
Yes I have seen an ankus both ancient and modern, I have also seen walking sticks with nails in the end and also virtual meat hooks disguised as dish mops that's apart from the use of electric" cattle prodders".
You all seriously misjudge the majority of elephant keepers. It is a career many people spend alot of time working very hard to achieve. My previous elephant experience was Free Contact even with Bulls in Musth, as protected contact was not an option where I was. It is a highly competitive area and in my experience I would be happy to just be working with elephants again. I would not care if it was Free Contact or Protected. I believe most elephant keepers would be the same. The argument that free contact is worse for the animal is ridiculous. Modern Free Contact still uses positive reinforcement.
The management of elephants should be done on a case by case basis. Those that are anti ankus use and anti free contact have either only witnessed bad elephant keepers or are just ill informed on the appropriate use.
For example: Taronga Western Plains Zoo holds four elephants, all female, three Asian and one African, held in three separate enclosures, never interacting. The Asians are all managed in Protected Contact. The African Free contact. The Free contact has significantly helped the african elephant come through the loss. Having the bond with her keepers allows her to do things she would not be able to do if managed protected. She is regularly walked on a 300 acre resserve. The keepers have established a strong enough relationship that she can wander off, pushing down trees, swimming in the dams and browsing and grazing. They just have to call her back when the zoo is about to open and she comes. This elephant is given incredible freedom, if she didn't want to she wouldn't have to come back. When it's not possible to leave the exhibit for walks the keeper will do laps of the enclosure to help keep her fit. Again not possible in protected contact.
I find it very frustrating that you are all lumping every person that has ever worked with an elephant into one group.
The management of elephants should be done on a case by case basis. Those that are anti ankus use and anti free contact have either only witnessed bad elephant keepers or are just ill informed on the appropriate use.
For example: Taronga Western Plains Zoo holds four elephants, all female, three Asian and one African, held in three separate enclosures, never interacting. The Asians are all managed in Protected Contact. The African Free contact. The Free contact has significantly helped the african elephant come through the loss. Having the bond with her keepers allows her to do things she would not be able to do if managed protected. She is regularly walked on a 300 acre resserve. The keepers have established a strong enough relationship that she can wander off, pushing down trees, swimming in the dams and browsing and grazing. They just have to call her back when the zoo is about to open and she comes. This elephant is given incredible freedom, if she didn't want to she wouldn't have to come back. When it's not possible to leave the exhibit for walks the keeper will do laps of the enclosure to help keep her fit. Again not possible in protected contact.
I find it very frustrating that you are all lumping every person that has ever worked with an elephant into one group.
The minority
A giraffe keeper only needs to get an accidental head butt to be killed and that's in protected contact, a p horse keeper only needs one kick to burst internal organs. With the ankus I have it would be nearly impossible to cause the elephant any pain. Even if you were hitting them as hard as you could.
Well I will walk you around with a hook behind your ear, if you protest I will then give you an electric shock in your arse, how would You like it? a modern ankus indeed it is a metal hook used to inflict pain upon the animal.
Uneducated ********. I have never seen a keeper use an electric shock device. There will always be dodgy keepers, this is not accepted by the majority. You are attacking thee majority. If they are using shock devices this can still be done through the fence. If they need to use electric shock devices then they don't have the relationship they should have to work in free contact.
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Scroll down to the ankus. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
No argument against my benefits of free contact?