A North American species I never encountered until my visit to Krefeld a little over a year ago. Sad to see the decreasing interest in this species, though the Reindeer are a good replacement.
~Thylo
Zoo Krefeld Krefeld zoo news
- Thread starter kiang
- Start date
-
- Tags
- black rhino gorilla krefeld news
A North American species I never encountered until my visit to Krefeld a little over a year ago. Sad to see the decreasing interest in this species, though the Reindeer are a good replacement.
~Thylo
Interesting, I have conflicting thoughts about this. I was delighted and surprised to find the Dall's sheep in Kefeld (though in retrospect I knew I had seen it on ZTL). It is a wonderful species and caprines would benefit from better representation in zoos. On the other hand, I'm all for replacing animals with more endangered ones, and I reguarly "complain" about the lack of European species in zoos. All things considered - with some pain in my heart! - I'll say that this is a good development.
What is the situation with Dall's sheep in NA zoos within AZA zoos?
Shame to see Dall's go (as do Rocky mountain goat) in Europe! How many left in Europe of them?
Other news from Krefeld?!?
Shame to see Dall's go (as do Rocky mountain goat) in Europe! How many left in Europe of them?
Other news from Krefeld?!?
I don't think there's been a Dall Sheep in an AZA zoo in quite some years now.
~Thylo
A real shame that! If you cannot love nor conserve local how can one hope to make a meaningful and sustainable believable impact globally. True for both AZA and EAZA!
I agree but to be fair the Dall Sheep is only native to the US in Alaska and the AZA has chosent o shift focus onto the endangered Desert Bighorn Sheep. Caprines see far too little love in zoos for my tastes, though.
~Thylo
Has a date been announced for the removal of the Dall sheep from public display?
Como and Dakota both have herds of the nominate subspecies and Assiniboine has stonei, although you are correct that overall caprines are poorly represented within AZA institutions.
What ssp. are the European and Krefeld individuals??? All nominate dalli?
Afaik - and as zootierliste says: Yes.
Bib Fortuna
Well-Known Member
The problem with the Dall sheep is that they can not cope with the high summer of Central Europe - and they are getting longer, hotter and drier. Now Dall sheep are not accustomed to these climatic conditions from the high mountains of Alaska, as, for example, even Seraus have never thrived in Europe well, nor are Rocky Mountain goats. Not only have many adult animlas from all these species, as well as muskoxen, died,which have suffered severely during our summer. There was also a very high kitten mortality rate - most youngsters died a wretched death in the summer, so just after the birthtime. Caused by the climatic condtions, mountain ruminants are very sensitive for a lot of deseases, and these led to a very high rate of mortality,too - and ultimately causes these species to disappear from our zoos.
Last edited:
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
... and, of course, if the zoo is accountable to politicians, investors and others who have an eye to the public interest; they are 'just' a white sheep...
Let's just act like we've had the usual debate/discussion calling into question your semi-regular claims that Musk Ox and Rocky Mountain Goat cannot be kept in captivity successfully, assume that it ended with the same old stalemate, and allow the discussion to continue from there
The biggest problem with the former Japanese Serow population in Europe, if memory serves me correctly, is that unfortunately there was a very high bias towards female births.
Sadly a general principle which has led to rather a lot of more-unusual species being dropped by collections - "why keep XYZ when people may well take it for "just" another ABC"?
Andrew Swales
Well-Known Member
Let's just act like we've had the usual debate/discussion calling into question your semi-regular claims that Musk Ox and Rocky Mountain Goat cannot be kept in captivity successfully, assume that it ended with the same old stalemate, and allow the discussion to continue from there
The biggest problem with the former Japanese Serow population in Europe, if memory serves me correctly, is that unfortunately there was a very high bias towards female births.
Sadly a general principle which has led to rather a lot of more-unusual species being dropped by collections - "why keep XYZ when people may well take it for "just" another ABC"?
Absolutely - and difficult wild spp which look (to the uninformed) like domestics, will always be at the top of the lists.
Let's just act like we've had the usual debate/discussion calling into question your semi-regular claims that Musk Ox and Rocky Mountain Goat cannot be kept in captivity successfully, assume that it ended with the same old stalemate, and allow the discussion to continue from there
The biggest problem with the former Japanese Serow population in Europe, if memory serves me correctly, is that unfortunately there was a very high bias towards female births.
I don't know the specifics here, but that suggests Bib's right. A female-biased sex ratio is predicted for animals in poor condition.
Trivers–Willard hypothesis - Wikipedia
I don't believe there is such a ratio in the Musk Ox and RMG populations, which are the two species which are regularly debated about per my above statement - but yes, there was definitely something awry with the Japanese Serow population, given the fact the problems kicked in quite suddenly in the mid-2000s after a period of relative success.
Bib Fortuna
Well-Known Member
@Tealovindave
Don't worry, I will not start another-short-debatte about !"Should Musk oxen be kept in captivity ?" ( No-they don't-no animal should be caged
)To discuss at Zoochat whether certain zoo animals do not thrive for some reason is a waste of time. 
Let's discuss whether to keep cetaceans or apes in Captivity. 
....Well, let's pretend that the evil zoo directors, who actually dare to downsize their animal collections or just hold junk species like merkats, ring-tailed lemurs or elephants,
Dall sheep and Rocky Mountain goats are no longer hold just out of pure malice .And this should not be the beginning of a new debate, just a personal note from me. As I said, discussing zoo keeping at Zoochat is as useful as asking if the chicken or the egg was there first
What I actually wanted to say with my post is that it often has other causes, if certain species are no longer held, as only disinterest of zoo directors, as they are often accused.
Don't worry, I will not start another-short-debatte about !"Should Musk oxen be kept in captivity ?" ( No-they don't
-no animal should be caged)To discuss at Zoochat whether certain zoo animals do not thrive for some reason is a waste of time. Let's discuss whether to keep cetaceans or apes in Captivity. ....Well, let's pretend that the evil zoo directors, who actually dare to downsize their animal collections or just hold junk species like merkats, ring-tailed lemurs or elephants, Dall sheep and Rocky Mountain goats are no longer hold just out of pure malice .And this should not be the beginning of a new debate, just a personal note from me. As I said, discussing zoo keeping at Zoochat is as useful as asking if the chicken or the egg was there firstWhat I actually wanted to say with my post is that it often has other causes, if certain species are no longer held, as only disinterest of zoo directors, as they are often accused.
To be fair, the Rocky Mountain Goat has all kinds of issues in European zoos, climatic factors aside. They are plagued by a small founder population, high inbreeding levels, lack of interest by major zoos and complex dietary issues. I'm not so familiar with Musk Ox, so I cannot commend on their situation.
What I actually wanted to say with my post is that it often has other causes, if certain species are no longer held, as only disinterest of zoo directors, as they are often accused.
While other factors can often be a cause of a species no longer being kept, in the case of the Dall Sheep and Rock Mountain Goats in zoos in general it is most definitely lack of interest
~Thylo