gill, i also feel very sad for the groups of chimps in the green mile when i visit twycross. i always come away thinking that it would be better for them to remove the bars between the enclosures, thus giving them a larger group and more space to move around in. surely it wouldn't take much work to do that?
Largest collection of chimps?
- Thread starter lorna_wilkie
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GillP
Well-Known Member
Thanks Pertinax, but I've answered my own question now about the bald chimp by looking at my photos ..... think it was Mongo, who's Jambo's son.
If the Green Mile chimps do consider themselves a group due to their visual and vocal contact, it somehow makes the whole set up even more poignant for me as they are denied the proper social/physical contact which would normally occur (instead of a bit of finger poking through the mesh).
I feel like a broken record re: the Green Mile, and I know I'm deviating from the point of this thread (plus I don't profess to know that much about Twycross as I can't visit too often) but it's so incredibly frustrating and upsetting to see so many chimps kept like this. Sure - IMO all the ape housing could be improved but the Green Mile must surely be a priority ? I feel particularly baffled because, compared to many zoos, Twycross seems to have a fair amount of open space which (from a layperson's POV) could potentially be used to erect better housing. I like the space, and the trees, but consider animal welfare to be more important. Have also read (though can't state this with authority obviously) that Twycross are sitting on quite a considerable reserve of funds. How better to use (some of) that to build accommodation for the chimps which'd enable them to live in a more natural group ? 'The World Primate Centre' should earn its title, not just by the variety of primates it keeps, but also from the quality of its care for them.
If the Green Mile chimps do consider themselves a group due to their visual and vocal contact, it somehow makes the whole set up even more poignant for me as they are denied the proper social/physical contact which would normally occur (instead of a bit of finger poking through the mesh).
I feel like a broken record re: the Green Mile, and I know I'm deviating from the point of this thread (plus I don't profess to know that much about Twycross as I can't visit too often) but it's so incredibly frustrating and upsetting to see so many chimps kept like this. Sure - IMO all the ape housing could be improved but the Green Mile must surely be a priority ? I feel particularly baffled because, compared to many zoos, Twycross seems to have a fair amount of open space which (from a layperson's POV) could potentially be used to erect better housing. I like the space, and the trees, but consider animal welfare to be more important. Have also read (though can't state this with authority obviously) that Twycross are sitting on quite a considerable reserve of funds. How better to use (some of) that to build accommodation for the chimps which'd enable them to live in a more natural group ? 'The World Primate Centre' should earn its title, not just by the variety of primates it keeps, but also from the quality of its care for them.
We've been here quite a lot before I think.... read my p.m.
I believe the plan for the Chimpanzees would involve the area around the old Gorilla House and Pet's Corner area and maybe even the Green Mile itself, I don't know exactly. However my fear is nothing will happen about this for a long while to come.
I agree with the general sentiment regarding the Green Mile, especially that they should at least attempt merging the group.
I would point out that unfortunately Twycross does not have the reserves it once had as it took a large hit when Lehman Brothers collapsed (see their annual accounts at the Charities Commission). The frustrating £1m question is why they sat on the reserves so long and didn't use them -they could have had enclosures now instead of a write off in their accounts.
I'm personally pessimistic on the Green Mile and think it'll live up to its name (i.e. the Chimps are there until they die). Being brutally pragmatic I can see there's a certain logic to not building a potentially very expensive new enclosure for a group of aging Chimps. However I also think it's wrong to keep them as them are currently housed -off the top of my head (certain "sanctuaries" excluded) I can't think of a grimmer looking enclosure for Chimps in the UK.
I would point out that unfortunately Twycross does not have the reserves it once had as it took a large hit when Lehman Brothers collapsed (see their annual accounts at the Charities Commission). The frustrating £1m question is why they sat on the reserves so long and didn't use them -they could have had enclosures now instead of a write off in their accounts.
I'm personally pessimistic on the Green Mile and think it'll live up to its name (i.e. the Chimps are there until they die). Being brutally pragmatic I can see there's a certain logic to not building a potentially very expensive new enclosure for a group of aging Chimps. However I also think it's wrong to keep them as them are currently housed -off the top of my head (certain "sanctuaries" excluded) I can't think of a grimmer looking enclosure for Chimps in the UK.
Unfortunately there are now 2 bald 'chocolate' Chimps at Twycross . I do not remember Mongo having the problem on previous visits , Jambo did not develop it until he was adult also . There was a certain amount of in-breeding used to produce further chocolate Chimps - I think the original Coco , still there , was mated with one of her sons .
The Green Mile chimps represent the oldest of Twycross' large Chimp collection- but the ones in the colony building and elsewhere around the zoo are considerably younger. So a chimp complex for a single large group would include animals of all age classes- as in the wild- and would not be just for the oldest ones on the Green Mile.
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Yes, chocolate is recessive to black- same as in labradors! Coco was bred back to her first black-haired son I believe before they could get the colour again.
Is there still a chocolate coloured chimp at Colchester?
He must have at least two Twycross relatives at Colchester if he was born there, if the chocolate colour gene is recessive. Both the parents must be related to Coco. Would Pippin be the father?
I am not sure how he appeared but I know they received a chimp from Twycross(his father?) who presumably carried the gene. I was aware of him when I made the above statement but I am not sure of his exact ancestry. You are right it needs two carriers to be inherited recessively. Maybe its isn't. Now I'm confused...!
I hope the one at Colchester doesn't develop baldness when he's adult.
GillP
Well-Known Member
Pippin is Tumba's father, Tekita is his mother. How they both might be related to Twycross I have no idea !
Tekita's mother is Tara, and her (Tara's) mother is Billie-Jo. Interestingly, Billie-Jo's other daughter Kora (so Tumba's great aunt) is noticeably bald, or at least balding.
We need a chimp version of 'Who Do You Think You Are?' to solve the mystery !
Tekita's mother is Tara, and her (Tara's) mother is Billie-Jo. Interestingly, Billie-Jo's other daughter Kora (so Tumba's great aunt) is noticeably bald, or at least balding.
We need a chimp version of 'Who Do You Think You Are?' to solve the mystery !
lorna_wilkie
Member
Maybe that's what I could do for my thesis! Figure out the relationships between all the captive born chimps in the UK! Sounds like it could be quite intriguing!
To a greater or lesser degree Tumba must be inbred. Both the parents must have been carrying the recessive gene, therefore there must be a high chance that they were related, right? Do you know how Pippin and Telita are related? Is pippin tekita's father? That would be a close enough relationship to bring out the chocolate colouration.
To my knowledge Pippin came from Twycross and so he obviously carries the chocolate gene.
But it seems the mother Tekita is several generations Colchester bred(?). If Pippin is also Tekita's father then father x daughter would both have the gene. If not either the colour is not simply passed recessively OR the Cochester bred chimps must also possess the chocolate gene. Mystified....
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If its passed on recessively- which I still believe it is- then this must be the scenario as both would then have the correct gene to create another Choc chimp. They may have played this part down due to the inbreeding element.