Leopards & Jaguars

it's u-nanemoius (i dnt bloody know lol) we allw ant jaguar over everything else, now who has the 1000's to import them lol

Jaguars have one distinct advantage over leopards.. they SWIM! An underwater-viewing exhibit for Jags (something like Australia zoo's tiger temple) would be awesome, they really love the water, and are quite willing to dive.

Off-topic, sorry, but talking about underwater-viewing, i just saw photos of a German zoo (Leipzig) which has an underwater viewing gallery for ... ELEPHANTS! How amazing is that!
 
a great idea i have wondered (i think of everything you see ;)) why no zoo has done this before - footage of elephants swimming underwater is facinating. did you know that elephants share a distanct common ancestor with dugongs and manatees and that their are various indications that point to a once, much more aquatic, lifestyle? their a certain elephant embryonic features that are only found aquatic mammals...

no wonder they love to swim!
 
Correct Zooish, a number of the golden cats here are quite related to yours. Others have come from Wuppertal in Europe, and many of the world's captive golden cats are related to those animals. We've had a few successes with this species over the years, but also some failures - Melbourne has bred loads of males, and a couple of pairs have never bred. We do have a well-managed program for them though, with a planned population of around 30 animals. If only more unrelated animals were available....

It's a shame they are so few and far between, and so related, because they are a beatiful species, one of my favourites.

Will have to look to Indochina (thai, vietnam) for unrelated golden cats. Many zoos there have immensely endangered species like goldies, clouded leopards, douc langurs... but their animals are of questionable origins, perhaps wild caught or illegally traded. Not sure if its ethical to acquire animals from these places
 
but their animals are of questionable origins, perhaps wild caught or illegally traded. Not sure if its ethical to acquire animals from these places
Being a CITES 1 species, they have to have be proven to have been captive-bred before we can import them. And of course, we an only deal with reputable zoological institutions (approved by DEH) overseas, so that knocks out the dodgy places!
 
a great idea i have wondered (i think of everything you see ;)) why no zoo has done this before - footage of elephants swimming underwater is facinating. did you know that elephants share a distanct common ancestor with dugongs and manatees and that their are various indications that point to a once, much more aquatic, lifestyle? their a certain elephant embryonic features that are only found aquatic mammals...

no wonder they love to swim!

Yeah! Ever since i saw the 'Land of the Tiger' docu with elephants swimming in the Andanman sea i was totally fascinated. They're amazingly graceful underwater.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed because the idea of underwater-viewing for eles has been thrown up by the singapore zoo director... she was inspired by what she saw in Leipzig Zoo, hope it works out. :D
 
Being a CITES 1 species, they have to have be proven to have been captive-bred before we can import them. And of course, we an only deal with reputable zoological institutions (approved by DEH) overseas, so that knocks out the dodgy places!

Its a shame though, these animals are destined for life in those shady zoos. Yet are unable to contribute to any captive breeding program. These animals are the new bloodlines so desperately needed for future success.
 
Hi Zooish, When you see the young bull Asian elephant at Singapore zoo next time could you take a few pics of him and put them up on the zoobeat gallery, PLEASE,
Cheers mate
 
its a shame taronga cant swim its elephants in the sea - they love it and it would be a great attraction. i'm guessing the harbor is considered to dirty (but not for the millions of residents who swim in it)

asian elephants love the beach.
 
i am sure taronga did, they have there private beach which was in the original plan, but who knows

it is to dirty though, about 20 something yrs ago, taronga tried to set up a semi wild poulation of seals, but after consrtuction started, and the net was up, it was found it didnt filter the syringes or garbae, and the water was jsut to dirty with oil etc, so very unhealthy for the seals.

for more on this idea go to Beauty the beast, from taronga and western plains zoo and there ancestors.
 
Taronga certainly has thought of this in the past, but it has been shouted down. It's not in fact the harbour water that is too dirty - it's what the elephants would do to the harbour that's the problem. They continually sh*t in the moat in the exhibit, and even with the massive filtration plant they have under there, the water is pretty damn filthy. Still, the elephants love it.
 
taronga has decided to go it alone with indian rhinos, mogo with white lions and seaworld with polar bears. all species must be managed as international programs, and whilst they hold high advocacy and education values it is perhaps the commercial imperatives associated with such high -profile species which sees zoos turning their backs on what we now know we need, well managed, cooperative programs.
Taronga, well, ZPB really, did decide to go against regional recommendations at the time, and acquire Indian Rhinos. The pair will eventually be housed at Dubbo, and managed as part of the International Rhino Foundation program. They have the room at Dubbo to house species like this, and Australia Zoo have also shown interest in the species in the long term. Having said that, if the animals breed, this could play an important role in the global management of an Endangered species.

Mogo also went against regional recommendations and obtained its white lions. I'd have to disagree that these have "high advocacy and education values", but fully agree that they have "commercial imperatives associated with such high -profile species". There's really very little to be gained from a conservation point of view with these animals, and it would be quite detrimental to the region's large cat programs if any of these white lions are transferred to other zoos in the region.

The Polar Bears are somewhat different. Sea World obviously has an aquatic-based theme. They had no intention of displaying the region's preferred bear species, Sun Bears, as they simply don't fit with Sea World's theme. And they certainly have the resources to built and maintain a world-class exhibit to display a major draw-card species. Yes, they certainly draw the crowds, but the exhibit is wonderful, and the animals are managed as part of the AZA SSP for the species. Sea World did not really turn their backs on the regional management for ursids, and the acquisitions and dispositions to and from Sea World have been completely endorsed by the SSP.
 
[

"rather than be jealous of the diverse european and american zoo collections "

I'll remain jealous thank you. While it is true that we have an amazing group of native fauna, I see them everywhere. What I very rarely see are the amazing fauna of other continents. As I am unlikely ever to travel overseas my only way of seeing these animals are in the half dozen or so places that specialise in exotics. So while I understand and agree with what zoopro has to say about regional management, I can still indulge in wishful thinking and if onlys.
 
Hi Zooish, When you see the young bull Asian elephant at Singapore zoo next time could you take a few pics of him and put them up on the zoobeat gallery, PLEASE,
Cheers mate

As requested photos are up. Cheers
 
Thanks Zooish for the pics, he is a really nice looking young bloke, wish one of our zoos could take him. His sire looks to be a huge boy himself, Cheers
 
among the reasons why the apple bay mairne life sanctuary failed at taronga in the 1980s/1990s was syringes floating into the sanctuary. and besides the environmental considerations of elephants defecating in the harbour keeper lucy melo also remarked that as the elephants never went into the ocean on the cocos they mightbe 'scared of it'.
the idea of elephants 'cavorting in the harbour and carrying passengers around' was mooted by the carr government when it released its 2001 state budget including the taronga funding plan. of course neither idea is likely to eventuate.
as for the polar bears i do still feel they were imported for commercial purposes, i mean, seaworld is a for-profit company. im not against it at all, its great they have the resources to display this species and can attract people from all over the country to jump in planes, contribute to global warming and fly up to see these species from the shrinking polar caps.
despite thier place in the AZA ssp, the rhinoceros in the international rhino foundation and white lions as some part of a grandicose conservation scheme i really think a comparison can be drawn between all 3 programs. all 3 carry some conservation merit but also fly in the face of regional collection planning principles.
of course, it comes down to the purposes of the different institutions. seaworld can actually afford to deviate from regional collection planning if it can secure a major new attraction, but for the other zoos i think its in their best interest to work cooperatively.
i have just added my two cents worth to the persian onager thread, a program that may just pave the way for the indian rhino program to follow. collapse, (long-term) :(
 
i dont acre about sea world doing it for commercial, they ahve the world best polar bear exhibit, and they are trying to do good, both in and ex situ
 
rhinos at dubbo

glyn you guess the indian rhino program will collapse? dubbo have managed to have a world famouus black rhino breeding program for well over a decade now without any support from any other institution.

i'm very much for zoos following regional collection plans but i don't think in the case of rhinos, any other zoo can really pay out on dubbo - they do have one of the biggest white rhino groups (the nominate rhino taxa) in australasia. they definately meet their obligations there...

so they wanna utise their rhino expertise to breed another two even more endangered taxa - i can't blame them for that!!

but hold on - haven't i said in the past that i am adamantly against dubbo keeping african elephants? isn't this the same?

no its not. firstly dubbo don't have any breeding age asian elephants and its highly unlilkely they will be aquiring any in the near future. however it is inevitable that dubbo will end up holding breeding-age asian elephants long-term and its highly likely, being the only open range zoo with (very expensive to build) elephant facilities and previous experience that they will be the next in line to jump into the breeding program if it takes off.

if they want to spend resources on elephants best they put those resources into asian first, then like they have done with white rhino, they could expand to other species...

but even more importantly holding african elephants, due to these viral health risks we talk about, directly compromises their ability to do this. it exempts them from being able to breed asian elephants....ever.

so really there should be no african elephants for australia, because unlike rhino, in this case it directly compromises a zoos ability to support a program species. however, each situation is different and sometimes, so long as a zoo meets its obligations to a program species first, i see no problem with expanding it collection.

but hold on, the money being spent on balck and indian rhino could have gone towards another program species the zoo doesn't hold, or into holding even more white rhino...

sure it could, but then it wouldn't really be much of an open-range zoo would it? full of white rhino giraffe and zebra...

dubbos, world famous and for good reason. in fact i dare say many people wouldn't bother going to dubbo if it wern't for the zoo there. so indeed maintaining that "one of world's best" titles is particuarly important to dubbo and lets face it - keeping a big diverse collection is very much a part of that.

and who decides what the collection plan will be anyway? the zoos do. how do they decide that, well they generally choose species with good potential for whatever variety of reasons and species that they currently hold.

so best believe, in the case of rhino, short of dubbo failing on the blacks and indians i think its really only a matter of time, be it long or short, before we find other open-range zoos putting their hand up for some. especially when most of our antelope species die out. filling up the empty paddocks with deer, blackbuck, water buffalo and indian rhinos just might start to sound a little more appealing then....;)
 
they would be 2 old now to breed, i mean wouldnt it be the smae as in asians, if they dont breed, they become sterile (in so mnay words)

i would love nothing more than to see asians and africans at dubbo, i mean the place is 2000 acres, and we can separate them sufficentally
 
Well said Pat, thats just how i feel 100%, heres a Pat on the back for you Pat. Zoo_Boy its no good having 2000 Acres for a zoo because our zoo leaders want empty paddocks.
 
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