Dartmoor Zoo Lion Man Craig Busch at Dartmoor!

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CGSwans said:
But this is not appropriate. Craig Busch is currently the subject of allegations that, if proven, should disqualify him from ever again working with animals. The public standing of zoos all over the world - and especially those that are privately owned - are diminished when revelations of animal cruelty in pursuit of public entertainment are made.

To promote Craig Busch at your zoo is to tacitly accept and endorse the behaviour that he is alleged to have engaged in whilst employed at Zion Wildlife Gardens. This is unacceptable and damaging for a zoo that is engaged in genuine animal conservation and welfare work. The great achievements of Dartmoor and other zoos risks being lost amongst the negative public perception of figures like Craig Busch.

Dartmoor puts itself out there as a conservation and animal welfare-oriented zoo. Asking people to accept endorsement of animal cruelty as the price of doing business just doesn't cut it.
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Hear, hear !!

Craig Busch is an appalling, dreadful man and allowing him a platform to publicise himself and his (self inflicted) 'woes' at a zoo which is genuinely concerned with conservation is both hypocritical, and almost certainly, an own goal, for many informed visitors (and would-be visitors) will vote with their feet and stay away from a zoo which endorses such a person and his extremely misguided (at best) ideas.

I find it very hard to believe that a 'celebrity' with equal or greater pulling power could not be found to appear at the zoo, in some capacity (e.g. book signings, 'an evening with' type thing inside etc), even if they weren't directly associated with animals. I'd far rather a zoo capitalised on the fan base of someone quite unconnected with animals at all ...... rather than fete someone connected with animals in the worst possible way.

I'm really quite gobsmacked that DZP have agreed to this. They may sell a few extra tickets on the day, but long term I'd think twice about visiting again and I'm sure others will too.
 
Wonder if he will finally get himself killed by one of the Dartmoor cats. :rolleyes: I thought this was a joke when I first read it :mad::mad::mad: They should bar him from entering the UK!
 
I too have read Ben Mee's book and have kept an eye on Dartmoor ever since, hoping that the steady improvements would result in an internationally recognized organization. However, endorsing Craig Busch is simply disgraceful and will surely ruin the reputation of the zoo in many eyes.
 
Dartmoor will do what it decides to do, we cant stop that.
Dont forget the owners have only in the last 3/4 years or so started working in a zoo, so its all new to them.They dont know everything that goes on in the zoo world - the good and bad of it is still unknown to them.
If Craig Busch does visit the park - the park will get money from it which can go towards the zoo which is a great use of any money being collected from Craig Busch's being at the Park.
I even though am not too pleased am still more than happy to visit Dartmoor because i believe its a good collection trying to do the best for its animals - I dont think that Craig Busch Methods will be tried at all at the Park and neither do i think they will start using those methods in the future - So the Park wont be very affected at all Craig Busch is just there for a few days or so and that will be all.
Regards.
 
I am amazed that anyone on this forum can defend dartmoors decision to support lionman.Having him at the park is a real kick in the teeth to those that have fought tooth and claw to change peoples veiws on his techniques and conservation message
 
Im defenataley not defending Craig Busch what he has done to his animals is terrible and i dont agree with him one bit.Im just saying it will not affect Dartmoor badly after all what are the other zoos taking part in this UK Tour going to be thought of?
 
Well the blog post on the Dartmoor Zoo blog has vanished guys. Nothing against them at all - but perhaps they had jumped the gun on this "tour"? Afterall there was a tour of Africa announced for September/October but nothing ever came of it. Is this another one of those "didn't happen" events. They mention 25,000 Facebook Fans - from what I've read on that page it's more like a riotous mob at times. Slandering ZWG seems to be topic of the day most of the time - that's a shame they have to resort to such behaviour. Well let's wait and see if Mr Busch does actually get to the UK - if he's going that is.:confused:
 
I didnt say that you were defending him i stated that 'i was amazed that anbody could defend dartmoors decision to support lionman' which is what you re doing-correct me if im wrong?

I would be just as upset with any other collections that chose to endorse this man.

The fact that the park will do well financialy from this arrangement does not justify the decision :mad:
 
I was just saying Dartmoor will do what they chose to do. I for one would never endorse Lion Man at all.If it has gone maybe Dartmoor have relised what they were doing - Good for them.
 
The flip side of this is some clued up zoo staff and zoo enthusiasts could go along and put him on the spot to try and get him to justify his practises, really make him squirm!!

I hope it doesn't happen, Ben Mee hang your head in shame, you might benefit in the short term but when sensible zoo enthusiasts etc turn their backs on your collection, then it'll hit your revenue hard!!
 
Really? Will zoochat fans bring the park down?! Hardly, although I don't really support the idea. It's a shame, as its possibly an indicator of how much they need the money for winter. But really, to me its like advertising an audience with Mary Chipperfield...
 
I didn't say zoochat fans I said zoo enthusiasts, there are many many more then are on this forum, nor did I say it would bring the park down, it just could hit their venue in the long term as a result.

As twentieth centuary fox bought the film rights to Ben's book I would have thought that would have helped in keeping the wolf from the door for a while, guess not if he's got to drop to these standards to generate revenue!
 
I agree with Peter Dickinson's comment that Mr Busch was sacked from the park he owned after being accused of serious misconduct, including allegations of safety protocol breaches, inappropriate behaviour in the workplace and performance issues. He will damage Dartmoor Zoo's reputation if DZP carries on with his tour.

White Tiger and Lion are not conservation and declawing is as barbaric and inhumane.

Craig was weeping crocodile tears because he is an actor! :mad:
 
I agree with you Gentle Giant, Having seen that there wasnt really much trust involve when going in with the animals, just chains is very dissapointing if you like - not that much trust at all including declawring is just awful and just terrible for the animals supposedly in his good care.
 
Not to mention the fact that tiger mums who were doing fine, suddenly reject their cubs after he's been in there and had photo's taken with her, its totally clear from the photo that she doesn't want the camera in her face :confused:
 
Thats probsably the thing i hate the most.Taking cubs away form their mums straight after they are weaned is terrible, even when they are doing fine just so a 'bond' can help them.
 
Riziki said:
Thats probsably the thing i hate the most.Taking cubs away form their mums straight after they are weaned is terrible, even when they are doing fine just so a 'bond' can help them.
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Ironically, I think this is one of the things the OLD Dartmoor got done for.
 
I think you could be right however, Declawring was not involved neither where chains - 'good old fashioned hand rearing' as it were nothing bad happening to the animals.
 
Jacks Zoo said:
The fact that the park will do well financialy from this arrangement does not justify the decision
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I totally agree.

I do fully appreciate that raising funds is a constant concern for many zoos, especially the smaller ones, and I commend Ben Mee for the huge personal investment (in time and money) he and his family have made towards ensuring the zoo didn't close, and towards a programme of ongoing improvement there.

But ......... as Jack Zoo says, any extra revenue obtained from Craig Busch's appearances is extremely morally questionnable. By providing an opportunity for Mr Busch to get his begging bucket out and cry some more crocodile tears, you could say that DZP (and other other zoos participating in this distasteful 'tour') are perpetuating animal cruelty because his ultimate aim, if I've understood what I've read about him correctly, is to 'work with' (if you can call it that) animals again ...... and I very much doubt he's had an epiphany about what real care means in the past few months. I hate to say this but by arguing that this is a business decision, DZP are more or less saying that so long as their animals benefit, it doesn't matter what happens to other less fortunate animals in the future.

I know that sounds harsh and I have no idea if Ben Mee reads these boards - though I guess that it's likely the comments on this thread will get back to him. I really hope he reconsiders this proposal ....... are things really so desperate that his principles (as I understood them from visiting DZP, reading his book, the website and various press articles) have to be chucked out of the window ? I simply don't see how he can think it's okay to condone cruelty ...... which is what any 'help' given to Craig Busch amounts to. CB certainly isn't coming to Dartmoor to help them that's for sure - but to serve his own overinflated arrogance.

I went to DZP in 2007 very shortly after Ben Mee had taken it over and though far from ideal, I was genuinely impressed by the commitment a private individual had made and the huge responsibility he'd taken on. Even so soon, there was plenty of evidence that Ben and his staff were doing all they could to make things better, and there were plenty of visitor-friendly little touches - like the good value and good quality restaurant food -compared to many zoos, and the decent ice cream - which I know are secondary to the animals of course, but which made myself and my partner think at the time that here was someone who was taking this project seriously ..... who wanted to attract more visitors, and who was being thoughtful about it. At that time, I knew very little about Ben Mee - this was before the book or the TV show ........ yet his thoughtfulness seemed apparent to me.

I am really gobsmacked therefore that he's giving CB a platform. Let's suppose that things really are horribly desparate and this is a last ditch attempt at gaining some extra revenue to stave off closure .......... yeah, very very hard dilemma ........ but, what happens after these appearances ?? I really do believe that DZP is running a huge risk of alienating at least some of its visitors, and of damaging any reputation won so far, as well as its ongoing efforts to be taken seriously in the zoo world.
 
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