Perhaps you would have preferred to see the lions when they languished in squalor in Romania
Yorkshire Wildlife Park Lion Rescue (Yorkshire Wildlife Park)
- Thread starter OrangePerson
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Perhaps you would have preferred to see the lions when they languished in squalor in Romania
Yes, it was a rescue in every sense of the word.
Agree, 100%, everyone concerned with this rescue are to be commended, the park itself, the airline which flew them to the U.K. free of charge, and the readers of a national newspaper who donated the money to construct this best lion enclosure in the U.K. I certainly hope that these animals have a long and content life at Doncaster, they certainly deserve it.
"Rescue" is a much over-used word these days. Various domestic pets are said to have been rescued when they have just been rehomed.
On the basis that some of these Lions are ancient they must have been well cared for in Romania to be still alive. I know some have deformities, but it could be argued that that means they have received even better care - it would have been so much easier to euthanase them.
To go off this specific topic, but related to it, I really don't understand why so many zoo enthusiasts these days , even ones of my age or older, are keen on modern exhibits with animals miles from the public and/or hiding behind a tree or a rock. Why does no one like proper cages? Real zoos have cages and animal houses, and as far as I am concerned allow public feeding too (visitors like feeding the animals and if the odd one should die as a result so be it). I don't expect anyone to agree with me but I think zoos should be for people and people alone (this does not mean the animals should be treated with deliberate cruelty). A "Campaign for Real Zoos" - yes please, and it would be one in the eye for both the antis and the politically correct conservationists too. I used to love cetacean exhibits and never cared if the Dolphin in front of me was the same one as on my previous visit (ideally the animals would survive but one Bottle-nosed Dolphin looks pretty much the same as the next to the untrained eye, so if one dies just buy another, call it "Flipper" and Bob's your uncle), but these days everyone seems to be the proverbial "bunny-hugger" who just "loves" animals and would agonise about such things. I suspect I'd be the only member of the Campaign though.
P.S. Just in case anyone is wondering after reading this, I don't have two heads. The other one on my avatar belongs to Fred the Green-winged Macaw, although the species was the Red and Blue in my early childhood. Yikes, maybe I've turned trendy.
On the basis that some of these Lions are ancient they must have been well cared for in Romania to be still alive. I know some have deformities, but it could be argued that that means they have received even better care - it would have been so much easier to euthanase them.
To go off this specific topic, but related to it, I really don't understand why so many zoo enthusiasts these days , even ones of my age or older, are keen on modern exhibits with animals miles from the public and/or hiding behind a tree or a rock. Why does no one like proper cages? Real zoos have cages and animal houses, and as far as I am concerned allow public feeding too (visitors like feeding the animals and if the odd one should die as a result so be it). I don't expect anyone to agree with me but I think zoos should be for people and people alone (this does not mean the animals should be treated with deliberate cruelty). A "Campaign for Real Zoos" - yes please, and it would be one in the eye for both the antis and the politically correct conservationists too. I used to love cetacean exhibits and never cared if the Dolphin in front of me was the same one as on my previous visit (ideally the animals would survive but one Bottle-nosed Dolphin looks pretty much the same as the next to the untrained eye, so if one dies just buy another, call it "Flipper" and Bob's your uncle), but these days everyone seems to be the proverbial "bunny-hugger" who just "loves" animals and would agonise about such things. I suspect I'd be the only member of the Campaign though.
P.S. Just in case anyone is wondering after reading this, I don't have two heads. The other one on my avatar belongs to Fred the Green-winged Macaw, although the species was the Red and Blue in my early childhood. Yikes, maybe I've turned trendy.
Andrew, perhaps things have changed for the better?, and please note I myself am the wrong side of forty like yourself and I have had pet rabbits since I was two years old, believe me I don't think they appreciate being hugged, they would much prefer to get stuck into a pile of dandelions in my experience.As for the word "rescue", would you describe Trudy the chimp's rescue from her previous owners, where she was badly beaten and abused, as simply a rehoming exercise when she was sent to be well cared for by the Cronin's at Monkey world, and what about the Five Sisters current appeal for £80,000 to build suitable accomodation for a group of ex circus bears?, would you suggest it to be preferable to simply put them in a pit and climb a pole to be teased by visitors with tit bits on sticks?
I'm sure you're being deliberately over-provocative to hammer your point home, but nevertheless I'll bite.
I agree that the word, "rescue", is overused, often for marketing purposes, but there's no denying Yorkshire's Lions have moved to a very considerably better place.
Longevity is not necessarily a sign of being well cared for. A number of species (Lions most definitely amongst them) are very hardy and will survive appalling conditions for many years. Why do you think Lions were, historically, one of the first animals to be kept for long periods of time in captivity? Basically you can get away with "just feeding" some animals and they'll live a long time (as occasionally demonstrated by nutters who are found housing tens of cats in their houses, usually all alive (though not necessarily healthy)). Additionally, though I'm not sure of the facts, could it be that the Lion's deformities were the result of poor housing/husbandry.
Choose from:
They look aesthetically pleasing;
They make it easier to see animals (without bars) and get photographs;
The allow an animal more space to exhibit natural behaviours;
They're an economic necessity -majority of people don't want to see animals in old-style cages (unless they're huge like Howletts & Port Lympne), nicer looking enclosures allow collections to survive and grow.
You're like Don Quixote and the windmills on this one!
I love public feeding (for instance at Colchester), but never at the risk of animals dying. What a stupid attitude. Regardless of anything else, there's a finite amount of many animals and ones dying through feeding errors cannot necessarily (ever) be replaced. Your attitude is selfish, you'd happily risk denying tomorrow's generations seeing an animal so you can get a five minute buzz from feeding it?
I agree that the word, "rescue", is overused, often for marketing purposes, but there's no denying Yorkshire's Lions have moved to a very considerably better place.
Longevity is not necessarily a sign of being well cared for. A number of species (Lions most definitely amongst them) are very hardy and will survive appalling conditions for many years. Why do you think Lions were, historically, one of the first animals to be kept for long periods of time in captivity? Basically you can get away with "just feeding" some animals and they'll live a long time (as occasionally demonstrated by nutters who are found housing tens of cats in their houses, usually all alive (though not necessarily healthy)). Additionally, though I'm not sure of the facts, could it be that the Lion's deformities were the result of poor housing/husbandry.
Choose from:
They look aesthetically pleasing;
They make it easier to see animals (without bars) and get photographs;
The allow an animal more space to exhibit natural behaviours;
They're an economic necessity -majority of people don't want to see animals in old-style cages (unless they're huge like Howletts & Port Lympne), nicer looking enclosures allow collections to survive and grow.
You're like Don Quixote and the windmills on this one!
I love public feeding (for instance at Colchester), but never at the risk of animals dying. What a stupid attitude. Regardless of anything else, there's a finite amount of many animals and ones dying through feeding errors cannot necessarily (ever) be replaced. Your attitude is selfish, you'd happily risk denying tomorrow's generations seeing an animal so you can get a five minute buzz from feeding it?
I'd agree that the case of Trudy is not merely rehoming. Where the Bears are concerned I don't know anything about their current circumstances so I cannot really comment. I am not keen on wild animals in circuses because I don't think they are really performing (no pun intended) any educational role, other than to demonstrate what that particular species looks like. On the other hand I do not think that being in a circus means they will have been treated with deliberate cruelty. If these Bears are just surplus to requirements or the circus is closing down for example, I'd call it rehoming. I'm also not a great fan of Bear pits as they cut off the animals from the world around them. Far better to be in a ground level exhibit.
Provocative - moi! Maybe I did get a teeny bit carried away. I'd never condone deliberate cruelty or anything but respect for the animals - although it made financial sense, for example, morally there is no defence of the old practice of purchasing an imported Bear cub as a cute attraction for the season and then shooting it in the autumn, thus saving on feed bills for a growing animal, before buying another cheap import the following year.
I'm sure the YWP's Lions are in a better situation now, but I'd still call it rehoming.
I do like old style exhibits. I find iron railings in particular aesthetically pleasing. I think big cats in many old style houses etc did more than just exist. Dublin's famous Lion breeding record springs to mind, and there was the famous Tigress at Blackpool Tower Menagerie that produced many cubs and enjoyed such a good relationship with her keeper that she would lift her head over the screen hiding her cubbing area when she was about to give birth. Of course Sir Garrard Tyrwhitt-Drake maintained Lions did better in beast wagon type cages than the large ones he built at Maidstone, albeit ones that were not grassed. I am a big lover of Alan Ashby's book of zoo postcards (where Sir Garrard's point is noted) but I must say that Stoke-Under-Ham looks horrific. Granted it is easier to take photographs with no bars, but in large exhibits the animal could be in the middle distance and defying most easily portable zoom lenses. Most of my photographs are of birds, so if they are in aviaries I can have problems where there are stand-off barriers.
Where feeding is concerned, I do think it should be sensible but I'd always take the risk and allow it. Although it wasn't allowed at Dudley, during my fairly regular visits in the late 1990s I often watched people feeding the Elephants on the fenced side of the paddock. This to me was a true zoo scene. One day I visited and found only Flossie in residence so I asked a keeper who told me Kasama had died of salmonella poisoning. I don't know if this had been the result of public feeding, but the zoo had erected additional barriers to prevent this and I thought this was a great pity.
As a footnote, yesterday I was watching a few Pathe news clips of zoos and I must say the pools in the original Dolphin House at Flamingo Park were tiny - I saw these on a good many occasions but I was very young myself so they maybe looked bigger (ironically I did see "Tiny" the Beluga and "Winnie" the Pilot Whale as well, both only once as they were so short-lived; mmm). Calypso at Cleethorpes was in a very small pool for a Killer Whale too, although she was only ever a temporary resident. Then I was watching a Chimpanzee being given a cigarette at Ilfracombe. Maybe not the best thing for its health, but the world was a simpler place then and to me, in many respects a better one for it.
I'm sure the YWP's Lions are in a better situation now, but I'd still call it rehoming.
I do like old style exhibits. I find iron railings in particular aesthetically pleasing. I think big cats in many old style houses etc did more than just exist. Dublin's famous Lion breeding record springs to mind, and there was the famous Tigress at Blackpool Tower Menagerie that produced many cubs and enjoyed such a good relationship with her keeper that she would lift her head over the screen hiding her cubbing area when she was about to give birth. Of course Sir Garrard Tyrwhitt-Drake maintained Lions did better in beast wagon type cages than the large ones he built at Maidstone, albeit ones that were not grassed. I am a big lover of Alan Ashby's book of zoo postcards (where Sir Garrard's point is noted) but I must say that Stoke-Under-Ham looks horrific. Granted it is easier to take photographs with no bars, but in large exhibits the animal could be in the middle distance and defying most easily portable zoom lenses. Most of my photographs are of birds, so if they are in aviaries I can have problems where there are stand-off barriers.
Where feeding is concerned, I do think it should be sensible but I'd always take the risk and allow it. Although it wasn't allowed at Dudley, during my fairly regular visits in the late 1990s I often watched people feeding the Elephants on the fenced side of the paddock. This to me was a true zoo scene. One day I visited and found only Flossie in residence so I asked a keeper who told me Kasama had died of salmonella poisoning. I don't know if this had been the result of public feeding, but the zoo had erected additional barriers to prevent this and I thought this was a great pity.
As a footnote, yesterday I was watching a few Pathe news clips of zoos and I must say the pools in the original Dolphin House at Flamingo Park were tiny - I saw these on a good many occasions but I was very young myself so they maybe looked bigger (ironically I did see "Tiny" the Beluga and "Winnie" the Pilot Whale as well, both only once as they were so short-lived; mmm). Calypso at Cleethorpes was in a very small pool for a Killer Whale too, although she was only ever a temporary resident. Then I was watching a Chimpanzee being given a cigarette at Ilfracombe. Maybe not the best thing for its health, but the world was a simpler place then and to me, in many respects a better one for it.