Lions And Tigers And Bears, Oh My!

[Gary]

Hi, I am seeking some info. Please feel free to chip in with an answer if you can broaden my knowledge!

1) Recently I saw a thread that said UK zoos are not allowed to keep both African & Asian Lions. Why is this? The only things I could think of were accidental cross-breeding (unlikely unless in the same cage) or risk of passing on disease. Can anyone elaborate?

2) African Lions have a reputation for breeding like rabbits. Why do Asian Lions seem to pose a problem when it comes to breeding? Is this related to the small gene pool?

3) Are there any pure-bred African Lion subspecies in the UK or are they all generic Lions? I know one of the Aspinall collections has Barbary Lions but these are obviously controversial.

4) I know of collections with Sumatran, Siberian and Indian Tigers-are any of the other subspecies represented in the UK?

5) Do any UK collections hold American Black Bears or Asian Black Bears?

6) Besides Amur Leopards, are there any other specific subspecies of Leopard in the UK? I seem to remember Marwell had Persian Leopards before (although I may be wrong).

7) Are there any UK collections holding American Brown Bears or any subspecies-Grizzly, Kodiak etc?

8) Specifically, can anyone tell me what happened to the Sloth Bears that were on the Mappin Terraces when London first reopened them? Why was the area rezoned as Australia?

Hope you peeps can help!

 

[Maguari]

Hi, I am seeking some info. Please feel free to chip in with an answer if you can broaden my knowledge!

1) Recently I saw a thread that said UK zoos are not allowed to keep both African & Asian Lions. Why is this? The only things I could think of were accidental cross-breeding (unlikely unless in the same cage) or risk of passing on disease. Can anyone elaborate?

I understand this is a requirement of the Asian Lion EEP. Not sure of the exact reasoning (or how Tierpark Berlin get away with keeping both...)

2) African Lions have a reputation for breeding like rabbits. Why do Asian Lions seem to pose a problem when it comes to breeding? Is this related to the small gene pool?

I think it is down to exactly what you say.

3) Are there any pure-bred African Lion subspecies in the UK or are they all generic Lions? I know one of the Aspinall collections has Barbary Lions but these are obviously controversial.

There are but they're equally controversial - the 'white' lions at West Mids and Paradise (Broxbourne) are pure South African Lions (Panthera leo krugeri).

4) I know of collections with Sumatran, Siberian and Indian Tigers-are any of the other subspecies represented in the UK?

Not at the moment. And most/all of the Indian/Bengal Tigers in Britain are not pure. Actually, if we're including non-pure, the Isle of Wight Zoo has two animals that are supposed to be South China x Amur hybrids.

5) Do any UK collections hold American Black Bears or Asian Black Bears?

American Blacks can be seen at Woburn. Asians at Dudley (and the private collection at Heythrop).

6) Besides Amur Leopards, are there any other specific subspecies of Leopard in the UK? I seem to remember Marwell had Persian Leopards before (although I may be wrong).

Marwell currently keeps Amur, but there are Persians at Chessington and Sri Lankans at Banham. Got a feeling I might be missing another one.

7) Are there any UK collections holding American Brown Bears or any subspecies-Grizzly, Kodiak etc?

The only Browns Bears in Britain are either Europeans or 'zoo' bears, with the possible exception of one of Dartmoor's that may be a Syrian.

8) Specifically, can anyone tell me what happened to the Sloth Bears that were on the Mappin Terraces when London first reopened them? Why was the area rezoned as Australia?

The bears are on show at Whipsnade. Not sure why Australia in particular was chosen but I get the impression they just felt the rather non-showy bears weren't making enough of the exhibit.

Hope you peeps can help!

Hope this helps!

 

[IceQueen]

1. All EAZA members in all of Europe are not allowed to have African and Asian lions in their zoo's. I don't know why, probably because of possible disease transfer. Since Asian lions are so vulnerable, they don't wanna risk it? And probably because they want to eliminate cross-breeding. (There's always a chance something can go wrong, somebody opens the wrong door and the two are mixed up, so why not eliminate that chance)

4. There are no 100% pure Indian/Bengal tigers in Europe according to the international tigerstudbook. So it's just Amurtigers and Sumatran tigers If you want to see Malayan tigers, you'll have to go to France, Germany or the Czech republic.

6. I believe Chessington has Persian leopards? (Marwell has Amur leopards)

crosspost
PS: berlin gets away with a lot...

 

[Vulpes]

crosspost
PS: berlin gets away with a lot...

Who polices this? I mean if someone had asians then nipped down to a neighbouring collection and picked up a couple of Africans, who would say n"you shouldnt have done that give us back our Asians!"

 

[johnstoni]

All the 'Asiatic' Lions pre Sakkarbag zoo sending new founder stock to London and Zurich in 1991 were hybrids. There were more collections wanting to join the EEP than there were available lions so it was possible to make such a stiplation that no collection be holding African lions if they want to join it. I do sometimes wonder why the same doesn't apply for those taking on Sumatran or Amur tigers, but there are more animals needing to be placed so perhaps it wasn't practical.

There is an interesting discussion on this thread, where one member is claiming that the Barbary-type lions in europe have been declared as more pure than Amur tigers or leopards, but they appear to only have anecdotal evidence from contacts in the zoo industry, which is a shame as I would be interested to see any published results of such testing.

http://www.zoochat.com/57/subu-lion-99405/index2.html

Most UK holders of leopards in the UK have Amur leopards. Chessington is apparently the last collection with Persian Leopards, though they are breeding well. The Wildlife Heritage Foundation in Kent, as well as Howletts, now hold North Chinese Leopards, and of course Banham has Sri Lankan leopards. The Amur leopard population is not pure, but in this case the Amur 'type' cats are still largely genetically and phenotypically distinct enough for a captive breeding effort to make sense, especially with so few in the wild. I am in favour of distinct populations of subspecies being maintained even when they are not pure, ie I think Amur hybrids are more suited to their ecological niche than generic African or Indian leopards, and some hybrid vigour may have been exactly what the captive population needed to be sustainable. The other leopards in the UK (Exmoor, Linton, Borth, Drayton Manor etc) are all believed to be generic mixed Indian/African stock.

I believe there was a welfare element to moving the Sloth bears to Whipsnade. Although Lanka bred twice at London, she often exhibited severe stereotypic swaying and nodding behaviour, even when with her young cubs (each time she raised a single cub), even though she had improved since arriving at the zoo. Because Lanka couldn't be mixed with the cubs after a certain age (I'm not 100% on this btw), she would often be restricted to one of the old bear compounds rather than being given the full area to explore, though I suspect this was actually done on rotation. I have no idea why this, arguably one of the most critically endangered bear subspecies, is not a priority for ZSL in terms of breeding. However, it may be that they are not choosing to bring in any other bears (I assume from the US, there are hardly any Sri Lankan Sloth Bears in europe now) until Lanka passes away, to breed with their 1.1 cubs, now adult.

 

[Maguari]

The Wildlife Heritage Foundation in Kent, as well as Howletts, now hold North Chinese Leopards, and of course Banham has Sri Lankan leopards.

Knew I forgot one!

However, it may be that they are not choosing to bring in any other bears (I assume from the US, there are hardly any Sri Lankan Sloth Bears in europe now) until Lanka passes away, to breed with their 1.1 cubs, now adult.

I understood there was a 'gentleman's agreement' that the EEP would concentrate on Indian and the SSP on Sri Lankan - meaning ZSL effectively have the 'wrong' bears. Don't know how accurate this is.

 

[Panthera Puss]

Not at the moment. And most/all of the Indian/Bengal Tigers in Britain are not pure. Actually, if we're including non-pure, the Isle of Wight Zoo has two animals that are supposed to be South China x Amur hybrids.

Just to add a small detail, Czar at IOW Zoo had his DNA tested & was found to be 7/8 Amur & 1/8 South Chinese*. His sister Raisa, who also lived at the zoo, died last winter. They were born at Milan Zoo; how they came to have South Chinese blood I couldn't say. They are/were both noticeably shorter in the leg than pure Amurs.

*I think those are the proportions.

 

[Maguari]

Thanks for that - I've often wondered just how 'Chinese' they are.

 

[James27]

Coloumbo (Lanka's son at Whipsnade) has been castrated, she's obviously too old to breed but I believe the daughter (Ursula) would be able to breed.

 

[Pertinax]

African Lions have a reputation for breeding like rabbits. Why do Asian Lions seem to pose a problem when it comes to breeding? Is this related to the small gene pool?

I don't think Asian Lions breed any less freely than African ones in captivity. The lack of breeding in the Uk in recent years is perhaps more to do with several pairs now containing one or both partners which have reached the post -reproductive stage. When the original pairs of Lions were imported to the UK they bred more freely- I think all the UK zoos that have kept them have successfully produced litters in the past-even if not recently. Chester have had problems recently however with cubs that have shown physical defects- this could be related to the small gene pool.

 

[Gary]

Thank you all for some fascinating information! It's great to have such a knowledgeable bunch of folks to correspond with!

 

[johnstoni]

Coloumbo (Lanka's son at Whipsnade) has been castrated, she's obviously too old to breed but I believe the daughter (Ursula) would be able to breed.

If that's true what a disgusting waste of a critically endangered mammal - rather than send him to the US where the SSP could have done with some new blood they hung on to him and castrated him? Ridiculous.

On second thought, I would be suspicious that perhaps at some point ZSL discovered they were not pure subspecifics, which would explain their slightly odd departure from London and the current non-breeding situation, and also the fact that they were relocated to Whipsnade rather than another zoo.