List of species I've seen

[Kakapo]

I'm also thankful for learning about the common names of the two remoras, that I was unaware of I just copypasted the one used in my file, and probably you're right, the origin of this may be in ZTL because I always tought in it as the most reliable source for common names of zoo species.

Anyway, it's time for an update:

YELLOW MONGOOSE

Photo by @Mo Hassan. Prague zoo Praha, Czech republic

YELLOW-BELLIED TOAD

Photo by @Therabu. Berlin zoo, Germany

YELLOW-NECKED FRANCOLIN

Photo by @ronnienl. Zoo Wroclaw, Poland

YELLOW-THROATED MARTEN

Photo by @JAMESTHEGREAT. Seoul zoo, South Korea

YELLOWHEAD JAWFISH

Photo by @devilfish. Sumida aquarium, Japan

 

[Kakapo]

And finally, the last of the species seen in 3 public facilities around the world. So next time will start rarer animals that I've seen only at 2 zoos during my life.

ZEBRA SHARK

Photo by @Lucas Lang. Georgia aquarium, USA

 

[Kakapo]

Now I will start the category of animals I've seen at just 2 zoos or public facilities around the world. So most of them would be qualifiable as interesting rarities.

ABYSSINIAN GROUND HORNBILL

Photo by @Patrick87. Berlin zoo, Germany

ADELIE PENGUIN

Photo by @Tomek. Faunia Madrid, Spain

AFRICAN AROWANA

Photo by @Zooish. River Wonders, Singapore

AFRICAN BLACK DUCK

Photo by @Daniel Sörensen. Weltvögelpark Walsrode, Germany

AFRICAN CLAWED FROG

Photo by @geomorph. Dallas zoo, USA

AFRICAN CLOWN WRASSE

Photo by @WhistlingKite24. Sea Life Sunshine Coast aquarium, Australia

AFRICAN HARRIER-HAWK

Photo by @ThylacineAlive. ZSL London zoo, UK

 

[Kakapo]

AFRICAN JACANA

Photo by @TheoV. Tiergarten Schönbrunn, Austria

AFRICAN KNIFEFISH

Photo by @vogelcommando. Brouwers aquaria, Netherlands

AFRICAN OLIVE PIGEON

Photo by @Therabu. Bioparc Zoo Doué la Fontaine, France

AFRICAN OPENBILL STORK

Photo by @vogelcommando. Prague zoo Praha, Czech republic

AFRICAN PYGMY GOOSE

Photo by @Dormitator. Central Park zoo, USA

AFRICAN WHITE-BACKED VULTURE

Photo by @KevinB. Dierenpark Zie-ZOO, Netherlands

AFRICAN WILD ASS

Photo by @Therabu. Parc de Branféré, France

 

[Great Argus]

So most of them would be qualifiable as interesting rarities.

This is an interesting statement - I've seen ten of the fourteen species listed so far, and a couple of them I would almost consider common.
I looked at the ground hornbill as a particular example; ZTL lists 43 institutions and I know NA has a minimum of 34 institutions holding them. Rare doesn't seem to quite work for more than 75 holders. Equally the knifefish and coris wrasse are common in the aquarium trade. The Adelie and the Olive Pigeon I think are better suited to rare. Saying a species is rare due to how many times you've seen it seems a bit inaccurate.

 

[Kakapo]

So where do you put the limit of "rarity"? 75 holders in total, so a hornbill kept at 77 places (given your own count) can't be included as a rarity, but any species kept at just two less zoos can be included? Given ISIS is not available since many years ago, how do you know the holders number for each species? The fact that you saw an animal (or ten of the fourteen) disqualifies them as rarity? Who's the person that can juzge then about the rarity item for being seem them? If it's for example Giant Eland, basically he saw all mammals on Earth so... Saying a species is rare due to how many times you've seen it seems a bit inaccurate Why you keep in account the aquarium trade? Many species are common in private hands but rare in public zoos. Common canarybird, for example. has not been listed yet, for mentioning an extreme example. (And anyway I dind't saw ever Coris gaimard nor Xenomystus nigri in private trade - the only Coris I've seen in the trade is Coris aygula, in various aquarium/pet shops, but since the latter species was seen at just one public facilitiy, it will be included in the just 1 zoo seen for species category).

And finally- why all of this? Can you please read again the phrase that yourself quoted from my post, and see what I actually said? Thanks!

 

[Chlidonias]

Saying a species is rare due to how many times you've seen it seems a bit inaccurate

But isn't that what you just did? I'm confused.

 

[Kakapo]

Obviously that intends to be an ironic reply to Great Argus exact same quote, showing that that's what he just did what himself calls inaccurate I'm not sure that you really didn't catch the message

 

[Chlidonias]

Obviously that intends to be an ironic reply to Great Argus exact same quote, showing that that's what he just did what himself calls inaccurate I'm not sure that you really didn't catch the message

Oh, okay, I did indeed miss that you were just repeating his sentence.

But he* didn't actually do the same thing though. I get that you are ordering the animals by how many places you have personally seen them, but from your earlier sentence you also are using your experience to quantify how rare or common they are in reality, which is flawed to put it mildly. Great Argus wasn't doing that - he was pointing out that something like the ground hornbill is not rare in zoos, not by saying he has seen them X number of times, but by providing actual minimum numbers of zoos which keep them. That is not the same thing at all.


*just assuming Great Argus is a he.

 

[Kakapo]

Well at least the pheasant in the profile image is a he

I think you need a bit of time for re-reading what you just wrote carefully. So ordering species by number of holders where I've seen them is a flawed way to ordering by raritiy (that would be true if the number of zoos visited would be very small or very local or very thematic-focused, but neither is the case), and actually worse than just flawed (otherwise you would not say that it's "to put it mildy"). Instead, saying one have seen 10 of the 14 species in certain section of the list is absolutely no personal experience and a very effective exact way to order species by rarity in zoos. Interesting.

I think this thread needs - again and again and again - a bit of distraction for the so popular sport (at least here in Zoochat) of being unnecesarily and exageratedly tricky against anything I ever say (or even what I don't say, as it's the case). So I will continue with the species that, as I said earlier already without any inaccuracy, I've seen at just 2 zoos or public facilities around the world, so most of them would be qualifiable as interesting rarities (yes that's what I said, I say and I will say because it's a correct phrase, without any need of straighten things out.

ALLIGATOR GAR

Photo by @Nandito. Taman Mini Indonesia Indah, Indonesia.

ALLIGATOR SNAPPING TURTLE

Photo by @SusScrofa. Zoo Atlanta, USA

ALPINE IBEX

Photo by @ThylacineAlive. Berlin tierpark, Germany

ALPINE MARMOT

Photo by @KevinB. Domain of the Caves of Han wildlife park, Belgium

AMERICAN BLACK OYSTERCATCHER

Photo by @Tomek. Oceanário de Lisboa, Portugal

AMERICAN COCKROACH

Photo by @Chlidonias. Butterfly Creek, New Zealand

AMERICAN WHITE IBIS

Photo by @vogelcommando. Mondo Verde, Netherlands

 

[Kakapo]

ANDAMAN DAMSEL

Photo by @vogelcommando. Coralandfishstore, Netherlands

ANDEAN GOOSE

Photo by @Coelacanth18. Sylvain Heights bird park, USA

APOLLO SHARKMINNOW

Photo by @Kakapo. Zoo Antwerpen, Netherlands

ARABIAN ANGELFISH

Photo by @Tim May. ZSL London zoo, UK

ARGENTINE COCKROACH

Photo by @KevinB. De Zonnegloed sanctuary, Belgium

ARMADILLO LIZARD

Photo by @vogelcommando. Reptilienbeurs Houten, Netherlands

 

[Maguari]

I think you need a bit of time for re-reading what you just wrote carefully. So ordering species by number of holders where I've seen them is a flawed way to ordering by raritiy (that would be true if the number of zoos visited would be very small or very local or very thematic-focused, but neither is the case), and actually worse than just flawed (otherwise you would not say that it's "to put it mildy"). Instead, saying one have seen 10 of the 14 species in certain section of the list is absolutely no personal experience and a very effective exact way to order species by rarity in zoos. Interesting.

That's not what Great Argus did though, is it? They posted this:

This is an interesting statement - I've seen ten of the fourteen species listed so far, and a couple of them I would almost consider common.
I looked at the ground hornbill as a particular example; ZTL lists 43 institutions and I know NA has a minimum of 34 institutions holding them. Rare doesn't seem to quite work for more than 75 holders. Equally the knifefish and coris wrasse are common in the aquarium trade. The Adelie and the Olive Pigeon I think are better suited to rare. Saying a species is rare due to how many times you've seen it seems a bit inaccurate.

The statement about their own visits was just why it struck them as odd. Then they posted actual facts to back this up. It's not just their own experience.

I'm not trying to argue here, just to explain why people are questioning this.

It's factually incorrect to suggest Abyssinian Ground Hornbill and Adelie Penguin are equally common in zoos (though that doesn't at all mean your thread is invalid, just that it has caveats). There's a sampling effect on what we all see in our visits - however many you've been to. I've been to over 400 different zoos and seen (as an example) Virginia Opossum about half a dozen times, and American Badger - never. But if I'd visited more small US zoos I'd probably think they were much more common than those numbers suggest.

 

[Sicarius]

And anyway I dind't saw ever Coris gaimard nor Xenomystus nigri in private trade - the only Coris I've seen in the trade is Coris aygula, in various aquarium/pet shops

I have seen both Xenomystus nigri & Coris gaimard in the private trade on a common basis. So they definitely are not to be considered rare in captivity. Not that has anything to do with the discussion above, I'm just informing you about it. Coris pictoides, formosa, cuvieri & dorsomacula are also found in the trade, amongst others. I have seen these myself, so Coris aygula is by far the only one.

 

[aardvark250]

The Adelie and the Olive Pigeon I think are better suited to rare. Saying a species is rare due to how many times you've seen it seems a bit inaccurate.

Interestingly i've seen those 2 and I haven't seen the ground hornbill or the jacana. Further proof that one's personal experience does that mean if a species is rare or not.

 

[Kakapo]

I like the correct, educate and complete way you posted your reply, Maguari. I wish all zoochatters would be able to show your politeness

I just have to agree in basically all you said, except, please, notice that I never suggested in any way that Adelie penguin and Abyssinian ground hornbill are equally rare in zoos. I just showed that I've seen each species in two zoos, and alsos said that most of the species seen in two zoos tend to be rarer than the ones seen in larger number of zoos so shown previously.

By the way, I never saw the opossum nor badger.

Sicarius: I never said these wrasses are absent from captive trade. In fact, if we just list the fishes Vogelcommando saw at Breda fish store, the list would be several times longer than the one in this thread. I just said they're not enough common in the trade for being seen by me.

Of course, personal experience is not an exact correspondence of rarity of a species. For example Chlidonias probably will considere common many NZ and Australian native species that Europeans and Americans would considere rare.

 

[FBBird]

That's not what Great Argus did though, is it? They posted this:



The statement about their own visits was just why it struck them as odd. Then they posted actual facts to back this up. It's not just their own experience.

I'm not trying to argue here, just to explain why people are questioning this.

It's factually incorrect to suggest Abyssinian Ground Hornbill and Adelie Penguin are equally common in zoos (though that doesn't at all mean your thread is invalid, just that it has caveats). There's a sampling effect on what we all see in our visits - however many you've been to. I've been to over 400 different zoos and seen (as an example) Virginia Opossum about half a dozen times, and American Badger - never. But if I'd visited more small US zoos I'd probably think they were much more common than those numbers suggest.

I’ve seen American Badger…..in the Philippines. But then I’ve never been to America

 

[Chlidonias]

I think you need a bit of time for re-reading what you just wrote carefully.

Strangely enough, I don't need to re-read what I wrote in order to understand what I wrote - because I wrote it. You were misrepresenting what Great Argus had posted.

So I will continue with the species that, as I said earlier already without any inaccuracy, I've seen at just 2 zoos or public facilities around the world, so most of them would be qualifiable as interesting rarities (yes that's what I said, I say and I will say because it's a correct phrase, without any need of straighten things out.

And again you are outright stating that because you have personally seen X species at two zoos that makes X species rare. It doesn't.

 

[TinoPup]

I like the correct, educate and complete way you posted your reply, Maguari. I wish all zoochatters would be able to show your politeness

I just have to agree in basically all you said, except, please, notice that I never suggested in any way that Adelie penguin and Abyssinian ground hornbill are equally rare in zoos. I just showed that I've seen each species in two zoos, and alsos said that most of the species seen in two zoos tend to be rarer than the ones seen in larger number of zoos so shown previously.

By the way, I never saw the opossum nor badger.

Sicarius: I never said these wrasses are absent from captive trade. In fact, if we just list the fishes Vogelcommando saw at Breda fish store, the list would be several times longer than the one in this thread. I just said they're not enough common in the trade for being seen by me.

Of course, personal experience is not an exact correspondence of rarity of a species. For example Chlidonias probably will considere common many NZ and Australian native species that Europeans and Americans would considere rare.

You're still only looking at a fraction of zoos worldwide, though, and mostly in one area of the world. For Maguari's examples, the Virginia opossum is very common in USA zoos, but not really seen in major ones other than as an ambassador. So someone could visit plenty of USA zoos but still never see one, but that doesn't make it not common here. I see alligator snapping turtles over a dozen times a year, they are by far one of the most common reptiles in USA facilities; I would not be surprised if there's over 200 holders in this country. The ground hornbill is also frequently seen here, because it can be stuck in with hoofstock and doesn't need room to fly a lot or anything. Some of these species are pretty rare worldwide, but for others it's more of a sampling bias.

 

[Chlidonias]

I see alligator snapping turtles over a dozen times a year, they are by far one of the most common reptiles in USA facilities; I would not be surprised if there's over 200 holders in this country.

Discounting non-European holdings like Singapore there are still 92 facilities listed on Zootierliste as keeping Alligator Snapping Turtles, so it would be difficult to argue that it is "an interesting rarity" in Europe either!

 

[Great Argus]

So where do you put the limit of "rarity"? 75 holders in total, so a hornbill kept at 77 places (given your own count) can't be included as a rarity, but any species kept at just two less zoos can be included?

You're misinterpreting me. The "over 75 holders" was in reference to the hornbills, not my definition of a rarity. If 75 facilities or less holding a species was my definition of a rarity, that would be a very long list...

Given ISIS is not available since many years ago, how do you know the holders number for each species?

In the case of the hornbills, checking ZTL and I manage the NA hornbills thread. I didn't pull those numbers out of a hat. There are NA population threads for all of the bird groups featured, plus there's ZTL. It's not tremendously hard to find information for the others either.

Many species are common in private hands but rare in public zoos.

True as far as large zoos go, but many such species (especially in NA) can be readily found in smaller facilities. That's not a catch-all either.

(And anyway I dind't saw ever Coris gaimard nor Xenomystus nigri in private trade

Surprised you haven't honestly, I see Xenomystus nigri quite regularly. Coris gaimard more infrequently, but not so much I'd call it rare.

And finally- why all of this? Can you please read again the phrase that yourself quoted from my post, and see what I actually said? Thanks!

Because I found your statement to be quite confusing. You stated that most of the species would qualify as interesting rarities, and then looking through several of them really aren't rare.

Of course, personal experience is not an exact correspondence of rarity of a species

But that's essentially what you continue to claim. You do say "most", but even so it's not really accurate.

So most of them would be qualifiable as interesting rarities.

So I will continue with the species that, as I said earlier already without any inaccuracy, I've seen at just 2 zoos or public facilities around the world, so most of them would be qualifiable as interesting rarities (yes that's what I said, I say and I will say because it's a correct phrase, without any need of straighten things out.