List of Zoochat Members Wanting to Found a Zoo

What I want is like very common exotic animals like

-Kinkajous, Marmosets, Genets, Birds, Endangered Turtles from Fish and Wildlife, Injured animals who need rehabilitation, unwanted pets, some hoofstock because that's what I have worked most with, and reptiles (I keep a large number of them and enjoy it).
 
Uhm, Age now withstanding,

Location: Anywhere on the east coast of the US, 15 Acre Plot of land

Species Intended To Be Held: Who knows, but nothing bigger than a Javan Rhino/Giant Eland Hopefully with a small mix of ABC fauna and rarer types. Of course, more than just mammals.

Time Frame: How long do pipe dreams last? (20+ years)

Collabing: Obviously
 
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The thing is I have lots of ideas for zoological and biological parks, including one just for Pennsylvania animals (the state I love in) which would double as a rescue and rehabilitation center. Also including conservation centers for individual to a few endangered/critically endangered species. The one I spoke about at the beginning of the thread is indeed more like a fantasy zoo with a lot of extra work, including exhibit designs, maps, etc. it is unlikely that that zoo or any of these would become a reality, but it would be great if they did
 
I think the original topic of this thread is very interesting and creates some good discussion (and helpful advice to future zoo owners). Let us not get derailed with unnecessary debates about individual species. If you (plural meaning all involved in the debate) want to discuss golden cats in captivity in the UK, I will encourage you to take it up in this thread: Big/Small cats in the UK

EDIT - the posts I am referring to have been moved by another moderator.
 
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So in the future I'm going to be working with a wide variety of animals but I'll be mostly focusing on mammals and birds. Of course after that then I'll get into reptiles and amphibians. But my zoo as previously stated will have mostly smaller animals. I'll list each animal but it is a very short list
(Around 35 species but only 15 are mammals)

Mammals:
Kinkajou
Serval
Common marmoset
Fennec fox
Ring tailed lemur
Capybara
Red kangaroo or wallabies
African Pygmy goat (Petting zoo)

These first few animals are commonly sold as exotic pets. They will be easy to obtain. These next few are commonly sold as hunting game:

Scimitar horned oyrx
Lesser kudu
Zebra (This one is a little less likely but I've seen many on sale)
Giraffe
(Seen on sale but probably the least likely to start of a zoo with. Maybe a little safari zone?)

These next few mammals will be a little harder to get but they are possible as I have seen them on sale.

Two toed sloth
Tarmadua
Egyptian fruit bat ( This animal will probably be harder to give a proper habitat so this makes it the last animal that will be added to my zoo before opening)

Birds:
There are 15 species of bird starting off in this zoo. 2 walk through aviaries and the rest are either stand alone or apart of another exhibit. Here are the stand alone birds:

Keen-billed toucan
African crowned crane ( I have seen the on sale multiple times)
Blue and gold or scarlet macaw
Trumpeter hornbill
Kookaburra

The Demoiselle Crane (I'm not sure if it can be a walk through aviary bird or if it should have its own exhibit)


African walk through aviary:
Red billed hornbill
Any species of tucaro that is available
Any species of mousebird
Guineafowl
African sacred ibis


A rainbow lorikeet aviary will feature rescued lorikeets that you can feed.


Ostriches will share an exhibit with the African hoovestock.

Emus will share with kangaroos

Peafowl will walk freely

A rescued bird of prey will have a stand alone aviary while also being an education animal.

Reptiles:

Some sort of crocodilian
A large snake (Burmese python or reticulated python)
A large tortoise
Tegu or a large monitor lizard
Green iguana

I tried to balance my zoo so that it is not a fantasy zoo, but a more realistic possibility. If this is too much, I'll take some animals out. Thank you.

TheEthiopianWolf03
 
And there we go again with the animal lists...moderators/conductors, please direct this train to the Fantasy section.
 
I think there is just a basic misunderstanding of what "fantasy zoo" means.
 
TheEthiopianWolf03 said:
.....

I tried to balance my zoo so that it is not a fantasy zoo, but a more realistic possibility. If this is too much, I'll take some animals out. Thank you.

TheEthiopianWolf03
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in the context of what is being said by people such as myself, "a fantasy zoo" doesn't mean one with unrealistic species lists. So listing "realistic species" is still "a fantasy zoo".

If you are still in school or college (just as a couple of examples of the stages in their life a person may be), listing species to hold in your zoo is not realistic. It is a fun exercise, but that is all.

Say that you are fifteen. You won't be out of college until you are in your twenties, perhaps later. You won't have any real experience for at least a couple of decades. You quite likely won't have any money until you are in your thirties at the earliest. You may not have a zoo until you are in your forties or fifties.

The point is, anything you list now, saying "this is my realistic list" will not be realistic in thirty years time. Like when someone says "oh you can get X because X is easy to get in Florida" - in thirty years X could be extinct, X could be proven to be a hybrid between Y and Z, Florida may have sunk into the ocean. Any number of things can happen in the meantime.

You can make fantasy lists and fantasy zoos, because that's what all of them are, but learn and study and plan for real hard factual things. Deciding you want a bird zoo, or a herpetarium, or to just operate a rescue centre for abandoned pets - that's all excellent - but the actual animal lists will wait because until it happens they are just fun lists.

That is why a list is fantasy - until such time as the zoo is actually happening.
 
Just a reality check for those wanting giraffes. Assuming you do not have the credibility and finances to be AZA accredited, you will need to buy them. A few years ago I visited a public and well established (but unaccredited) safari park in the southwest. The owner said male giraffes are forty thousand dollars and female giraffes are one hundred thousand dollars. So if you are being realistic (which this thread is for), I would cross it off my list, unless your facility becomes very popular and receives a good income.
 
Arizona Docent said:
I think the original topic of this thread is very interesting and creates some good discussion (and helpful advice to future zoo owners). Let us not get derailed with unnecessary debates about individual species. If you (plural meaning all involved in the debate) want to discuss golden cats in captivity in the UK, I will encourage you to take it up in this thread: Big/Small cats in the UK
Click to expand...

I have moved the digression into the thread you suggested :)
 
Well if species lists make a fantasy zoo I'll fix it...

Location: Midwest
Animals: African/South American wildlife. My reason for this is because both of these regions have many endangered animals. Of course I'll get the endangered animals after AZA accreditation.
Collab: Yes
Challenges: Finances

This is all I will add, no more. Does this work or is it still a fantasy zoo? If it does, I'll drop the whole idea.

A small unrelated question but how much does the following cost:
Gift shop
Restaurant
Bathrooms

Although the animals are important, people who come to see them are important too.

When you mean by start small, do you mean the number of species or how large each animal is? If you already answered this question you don't have to answer it again.

I guess I'm the main cause of this misunderstanding on this thread. There is no excuse for me. Once I get the answers I'm looking for, I think I won't be using Zoochat for a little while. I'm being childish and unreasonable with you guys in the process of building a zoo. I have said sorry many times but once again, I need to say it. Sorry. I'll be back but for now I need some time to think.

Until then...

TheEthiopianWolf03
 
Ok I will give it a try

Intended Location of zoo: Horsham, the UK

2. Species Intended to be held: Cetaceans (mostly Orca), all three species of Elephants and Polar Bears. The idea is to go for wild-sourced animals and perform shows with all species

3. Time frame for building/opening: Depending on building permits less than 2 years

4. Open to collaboration with others: Yes, preferably with animal oriented NGOs in the town.

5. Biggest restraint if not opening in the next 2 years: my own sanity
 
DDcorvus said:
Ok I will give it a try

Intended Location of zoo: Horsham, the UK

2. Species Intended to be held: Cetaceans (mostly Orca), all three species of Elephants and Polar Bears. The idea is to go for wild-sourced animals and perform shows with all species

3. Time frame for building/opening: Depending on building permits less than 2 years

4. Open to collaboration with others: Yes, preferably with animal oriented NGOs in the town.

5. Biggest restraint if not opening in the next 2 years: my own sanity
Click to expand...

Yep this is going to be a fantasy thread.

I hate to see people making the same mistake that I did. DDcorvus, although your ideas are interesting, please note that this thread is for people who have a full seriousness in building a zoo. I'm not saying that you don't. It's just that in the timeframe that you placed and the animals that you listed, makes your zoo more like a fantasy zoo. Here are the major issues with your zoo. Please note that I'm not trying to crush your dreams. I'm showing you the reality of the situation.

1.) Acredidtation
All of the animals that you have said require acredidation. I don't know the name of the association in the U.K. But in the USA we have AZA. If you want to preform shows with animals, maybe get a large python or a few more accessible animals.

2.) Space
You have the worlds largest land animal, the world largest land carnivore, and a member of the whale infraorder. Your zoo needs to be giant to house animals this big. I'm talking around 100 acres of land. Elephants need 6 acres to themselves. Polar bear 3 acres. I don't even know for orcas.


3.) Money
Zoos are not cheap. But let's just say you get all of the animals you want. I'll make an estimate price range for your zoo.

Orca- Way more than 3 million dollars and this is not including food, medicine, enrichment, and people who are trained to care for these animals.
Each species of elephant- Once again Way more than 3 million. Probably a little less than the orca but still a significant amount of money.
Polar bears- They are probably the cheapest from all three, maybe a little over 2 million for the proper care.

Exhibits- Millions of dollars just to give each animal a proper amount of space.

Guest needs- Resturaunts, bathrooms, gift shops. For the building process maybe $900,000 per building?

If you make that much money, have that much space, and already have accreditation in TWO years, be my guest. I'm not trying to doubt you or crush your dreams. It is just reality.


TheEthioianWolf03
 
TheEthiopianWolf03 said:
Yep this is going to be a fantasy thread.

I hate to see people making the same mistake that I did. DDcorvus, although your ideas are interesting, please note that this thread is for people who have a full seriousness in building a zoo. I'm not saying that you don't. It's just that in the timeframe that you placed and the animals that you listed, makes your zoo more like a fantasy zoo. Here are the major issues with your zoo. Please note that I'm not trying to crush your dreams. I'm showing you the reality of the situation.

1.) Acredidtation
All of the animals that you have said require acredidation. I don't know the name of the association in the U.K. But in the USA we have AZA. If you want to preform shows with animals, maybe get a large python or a few more accessible animals.

2.) Space
You have the worlds largest land animal, the world largest land carnivore, and a member of the whale infraorder. Your zoo needs to be giant to house animals this big. I'm talking around 100 acres of land. Elephants need 6 acres to themselves. Polar bear 3 acres. I don't even know for orcas.


3.) Money
Zoos are not cheap. But let's just say you get all of the animals you want. I'll make an estimate price range for your zoo.

Orca- Way more than 3 million dollars and this is not including food, medicine, enrichment, and people who are trained to care for these animals.
Each species of elephant- Once again Way more than 3 million. Probably a little less than the orca but still a significant amount of money.
Polar bears- They are probably the cheapest from all three, maybe a little over 2 million for the proper care.

Exhibits- Millions of dollars just to give each animal a proper amount of space.

Guest needs- Resturaunts, bathrooms, gift shops. For the building process maybe $900,000 per building?

If you make that much money, have that much space, and already have accreditation in TWO years, be my guest. I'm not trying to doubt you or crush your dreams. It is just reality.


TheEthioianWolf03
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1) Why do I need accreditation. I am going to use wild-sourced animals. These are available with the correct CITES data and there is a country in Europe giving export permits for these. Next to this there is no UK legislation preventing me when they leave the EU as then all cetaceans will be back to CITES II and not on CITES I as currently under EU law. The UK association is BIAZA but no need to join them. I m quite sure they do not even want my zoo to join.

2) Space is not an issue

3) Your estimates are quite exagerated yes they are expensive and most expenses will go to building proper enclosures (and those will exceed your numbers quite drastically), but for normal husbandry numbers will be quite a bit lower. Also purchasing the animals and transport will be expensive but then we are not talking about millions.

One advice when considering to start a zoo is doing an accounting and business course as both will help you.

And in this zoo it is all about location
 
DDcorvus said:
One advice when considering to start a zoo is doing an accounting and business course as both will help you.

And in this zoo it is all about location
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OK - DDcorvus - you've made your point. No need to tease EthiopianWolf anymore. See, Ethiopian Wolf, DDCorvus's post was made sarcastically. While I recognize that you were trying to be helpful, his post was merely pointing out the unrealistic nature of most all of the "zoos" people have set forth in this thread (including yours) - Batto is the exception here. So while no one wants to discourage your dream, you really might want to move it to a fantasy thread - as no amount of research on your part is going to give you the experience and knowledge needed to set forth a viable zoo plan at this point. Don't ask on this thread questions like the cost of a restaurant, gift shop, or restrooms - for so many reasons, any number you would be given would be of little use to you in the 20+ years of your timeframe. By all means, work in the field, save money, and dream big, but this thread has become a bit of a joke to most, and it doesn't help your case when you fail to see that.
 
jibster said:
OK - DDcorvus - you've made your point. No need to tease EthiopianWolf anymore. See, Ethiopian Wolf, DDCorvus's post was made sarcastically. While I recognize that you were trying to be helpful, his post was merely pointing out the unrealistic nature of most all of the "zoos" people have set forth in this thread (including yours) - Batto is the exception here. So while no one wants to discourage your dream, you really might want to move it to a fantasy thread - as no amount of research on your part is going to give you the experience and knowledge needed to set forth a viable zoo plan at this point. Don't ask on this thread questions like the cost of a restaurant, gift shop, or restrooms - for so many reasons, any number you would be given would be of little use to you in the 20+ years of your timeframe. By all means, work in the field, save money, and dream big, but this thread has become a bit of a joke to most, and it doesn't help your case when you fail to see that.
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Fair enough Jibster and yes EthiopianWolf sorry for teasing. Even though I would enjoy seeing this particular zoo coming to realisation (for reasons unrelated to the thread and just personal amusement of seeing some UK dynamics play out), I would never start it myself even if I had the money. My interests are somewhere else and the dream of founding a zoo is a fond childhood memory. Also the most interesting jobs in zoos are actually ones you will not work with animals, and for those you need skills that might be zoologically related but include many skills that you probably do not know yet. So choose a path, work you ass off and see where it brings you. If you then have the expertise and potential funding you can still consider founding a zoo. My suspicion is that when you get there though you might not want to do it anymore.
 
I found myself laughing at your post DDcorvus.:D
Thank you guys for everything. Since I joined, this was the first question I wanted to ask everyone. Now I release how silly I have been over the past few weeks. Thank you zoochat community for putting up with me.

Until then...

TheEthopianWolf (Yes this is how I am going to refer to myself for now on)
 
The question of gift shop, restaurant, bathrooms is important. I think this is one of the things that aspiring zoo owners do not think about when it comes to cost (and why it is so difficult to start your own zoo). It is possible to do it on the cheap by having portable toilets (the kind you see at a construction site). Most visitors of course would find this deplorable even though I have seen it at a couple low budget zoos. To do nice restrooms (which will make people want to join and come back) is expensive due to the plumbing and construction. I don't have any price figures, but it would not surprise me if it was tens of thousands of dollars. A good restaurant would not surprise me if it was a hundred thousand dollars. A gift shop also tens of thousands perhaps, though I think you could get by with an inexpensive pre-fab metal building for this.
 
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