Also wheelchair access, for years they had signs apologising for the first few steps up to the bottom level, with plans for a ramp etc, which would never be possible further up. It would be impressive to see animals using the upper area, the public would still be able to see them from the current viewing level. As london is no stranger to hotwire, I'm sure the area could be secured for the langurs to have access to, but then I've heard stories of Markhor escaping down the back so I guess it's a potential PR disaster and will probably stay as a rather impressive backdrop for the Sloth bears.
ZSL London Zoo London Developments
- Thread starter ^Chris^
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Dunno- but it's definitely been needed for a while. I've always hoped they'd give the entire space over to just one big cat and perhaps a supporting cast of say one small cat and a few other small mammals. I somehow doubt that would be the case- they'll probably choose to keep Sumatran Tigers and Asiatic Lion.
Thanks for the news.
Their breeding record with cats in the lion terraces is not good, and certainly the Sumatran tigers have a very poor record at London zoo (a single, hand0reared cub to my knowledge). Hopefully they would sensibly stick to Asiatic lions, which have bred well, and focus on that geographic region rather than an assortment of cats.
Their breeding record with cats in the lion terraces is not good, and certainly the Sumatran tigers have a very poor record at London zoo (a single, hand-reared cub to my knowledge). Hopefully they would sensibly stick to Asiatic lions, which have bred well, and focus on that geographic region rather than an assortment of cats.
I think having large cats living in close proximity together doesn't benefit them. The more nervous Sumatran tigers can smell, hear and see their neighbours, the Lions. It could have affected their breeding success too. I know this is true of Cheetahs if kept in proximity to Lions(after all, they are nervous of them in the wild) As far as I know, ZSL Sumatrans produced only the one single cub which was handraised- it had lost its tail too.. Nothing since?
The ZSL Tigers aren't a terribly good display either, but the problem is, the public really expect to see both Tigers and Lions, don't they.
The other smaller cat enclosures seem to mostly contain 'refugee' monkeys from the Sobell alterations, at present. Its certainly ripe for some sort of redevelopment, I feel.
The ZSL Tigers aren't a terribly good display either, but the problem is, the public really expect to see both Tigers and Lions, don't they.
The other smaller cat enclosures seem to mostly contain 'refugee' monkeys from the Sobell alterations, at present. Its certainly ripe for some sort of redevelopment, I feel.
It's interesting how some collections do consistently well breeding Sumatrans, while others have no success at all. I read some research similar to the last point made, this time about Clouded leopards, which suggested they were more prone to infanticide/mate killing if in close proximity to larger cats.
I know that Sumatran Tigers* are much more nervous/ highly strung than the big Siberians. Cheetahs are nervous (they EVEN look rather worried..) and probably Clouded Leopards too- the latter very rarely show themselves in captivity. It seems fairly logical that all these, and other nervous species, won't prosper if placed close to a larger feline, e.g. Lions. Unfortunately, such temperament differences aren't usually taken into account, or they didn't used to be, when exhibits were designed.
* Yet Paignton bred Sumatran Tigers recently, and they are close to Asiatic Lions. Its a similar setup at Chessington where they have bred too...
I hope the Cat Terraces will get a complete overhaul. I personally believe it would be perfectly feasible to have exhibits for both Asian lions and Sumatran tigers that are more conducive to their well-being and breeding. I have always though the old Terraces a bit spartan and open to the public with little space for the cats to hide themselves from view.
I would hope a new redeveloped Cat Terraces will have 4 large open spaced enclosures with good vegetation/tree trunks, hillocks for the animals to move around and hide when they need to do so. I keep the naturalistic Tiger Taiga in mind at Leipzig Zoo for this and the new Asian Lion forest at Zuerich Zoo. If London can come close to these two, I am sure it will be another fine redevelopment for the Zoo.
I would hope a new redeveloped Cat Terraces will have 4 large open spaced enclosures with good vegetation/tree trunks, hillocks for the animals to move around and hide when they need to do so. I keep the naturalistic Tiger Taiga in mind at Leipzig Zoo for this and the new Asian Lion forest at Zuerich Zoo. If London can come close to these two, I am sure it will be another fine redevelopment for the Zoo.
Which species would you have in mind?
I think I'd prefer just one big cat species given the space available. Maybe a big Sumatran Tiger enclosure with smaller ones nearby for say Francois Langur and Fishing Cat to create a Sumatran themed area. Perhaps lions could come back to the zoo and live on the Mappin Terrace if and when anything happened to the bears.
I guess you're right- particularly given that they've had more success with lions in the past. The only thing is- what exhibits do you think they'd put along side Asiatic Lions in terms of theming a whole area? There's not really space for any hoofstock and such- maybe a few reptile displays and aviaries etc to keep the focus on the lions? If the whole area was flattened and redesigned from scratch it could easily become one of the top Asiatic Lion (or tiger) facilities in the country.
The three most obviously visible species that live alongside the Lions in Gir Forest are; Chital, Langur and Peacock. I don't know if they could replicate this somehow? They could probably keep Peacocks, even Langurs in with the lions themselves- but obviously not Chital!
I guess turning that area into one large exhibit WOULD be the best option really. But for the lions or the tigers. Maybe it will continue as two exhibits(or more?)
I guess turning that area into one large exhibit WOULD be the best option really. But for the lions or the tigers. Maybe it will continue as two exhibits(or more?)
they have enough space on the North Bank to house cats (there used to be crane paddocks on this site), so hopefully they won't continue to keep them all on the lion terraces site. The lion terraces are really big enough for one large cat species, and it would be good to see them build on their previous success with Asiatic Lions, as ZSL were instrumental in starting the current captive breeding effort in in the late 80s.
Writhedhornbill
Well-Known Member
Yes, but I thought Chester was known for it's many cubs, that now are at most zoos that keep the species. What success did London have? i.e amounts of cubs
It's not that they've had more success than other zoos have, more that of all the cats they have kept in recent decades, Asiatic lions are one of the only species they have been successful at breeding. They have had several litters, although I think they may have lost a litter last year.
I think it is highly unlikely London Zoo will transfer out its Sumatran Tigers. Sarah Christie is ZSL's Tiger EEP Species Coordinator and ZSL itself is at the helm of tiger conservation in Sumatra and also supporting ecological field research there. A newly refurbished Cat Terraces will include - in my opinion - the Sumatran Tigers.
Asian lions I am not so sure about. Will they hold on to them or perhaps sent them out to Whipsnade (more logical given their Asian elephant and Indian rhino exhibits there)?
Personally, I do not see a conflict in both remaining at London Zoo. However, the idea of a South East Asian rainforest with Sumatran Tiger, Clouded Leopards and Fishing Cats quite appeals to me.
I believe there's a directive that no collection should hold both Asian and African Lions(on the same site, that is) so maybe that would preclude Whipsnade having them as they have African Lions again now.
I agree the Sumatran Tigers should stay too. I think two big cat species are fine, but better if they are in entirely different parts of the zoo perhaps?
That would make a lot of sense. Hadley says there is enough room to hold a big cat species on the North Bank which could be a big sloped Lion Valley kind of exhibit whilst the current cat plaza could be a SE Asia zone which would not only provide for the tigers they currently keep but also the monkeys evicted by the Sobell rework. It may also get the gibbons out of their current exhibit into a bigger open-topped one. Given the success of the 'temporary' butterfly house a more permanent one could be included and the plans could encompass the nearby aviary which currently holds Waldrapp.
I doubt they'd go for anything as obvious as that though
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