ZSL London Zoo London Zoo Notes.
- Thread starter Pertinax
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Mjukuu's move to London.
So it has happened... a female transferred from Chessington to London. I don't think Chessington wanted to give up a female from their group, but until this happened EEP weren't going to okay a new male transfer(Damisi from Paignton) so that will probably go ahead now.
Kumba has six living offspring but so far only his eldest daughter Kamili(at Belfast) has bred, and then only once. His grandson 'Kumbuka' is in the Paignton group.The others(apart from, now, Mjukuu) are still in the Chessington group. (Mjukuu is Kumba's 2nd 'Chessington' daughter)
'Mjukuu' is a perfectly socialised young female. I believe whether she now breeds at London depends entirely on the male Bobby. If she doesn't, it will prove once and for all that he's not a breeding male. (I hope they teach her about watermoats...)
So it has happened... a female transferred from Chessington to London. I don't think Chessington wanted to give up a female from their group, but until this happened EEP weren't going to okay a new male transfer(Damisi from Paignton) so that will probably go ahead now.
Kumba has six living offspring but so far only his eldest daughter Kamili(at Belfast) has bred, and then only once. His grandson 'Kumbuka' is in the Paignton group.The others(apart from, now, Mjukuu) are still in the Chessington group. (Mjukuu is Kumba's 2nd 'Chessington' daughter)
'Mjukuu' is a perfectly socialised young female. I believe whether she now breeds at London depends entirely on the male Bobby. If she doesn't, it will prove once and for all that he's not a breeding male. (I hope they teach her about watermoats...)
Thanks Yassa!
So hopefully, if Bongo (Bobby) and Mjukuu do breed, then ZSL could have a very valuable little baby on their hands
(of course, that is if Bongo is up to the task of breeding...)
Bongo/Bobby is a wildcaught male with no breeding record, so no offspring. He's very small, almost stunted in growth, for an adult male Gorilla (the smallest one I've ever seen) but I think that's a result of his early background, so yes, he's still genetically valuable...
yeah, I was referring to his genes when I said that and I also know his breeding record is non-existant.
I guess it could also be valuable, finance-wise for London if there was a baby gorilla (e.g. Brumas).
It depends how much hype they put into it... When the previous babies were born at London zoo(1970-80's) there didn't seem to be a great deal of public interest... And not sure how much they can hype- up an event that takes place commonly just down the road(so to speak) in Kent...but being London, no doubt they would succeed.
I believe there's some sort of EEP recommendation in place to shift males after two years if they fail to breed. However in practise some have stayed much longer(e.g. Blackpool's) as there often isn't anywhere else to put them.
ZSL have had 'Bobby' nearly five years now and he was two years at Bristol with no breeding either. I reckon if he doesn't breed with this new female very quickly, then nothing will happen there either. The irony is that he's more genetically valuable(being wild caught & with no offspring) than every other UK male.
if there's no breeding within a few months between'Bobby' and this new female they should cut their losses and get a new male in. He only came to London because Bristol managed to swap him(they evidently realised he wasn't going to be any good...) It is a pity really as he's the only wildcaught male of a practical age(not too old) without offspring in the Uk but its no good persevering with him for ever....
Maybe Howletts could overcome their 'cold war' policy with London and let them have one of their many spare males.
Maybe Howletts could overcome their 'cold war' policy with London and let them have one of their many spare males.
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Maybe a 2-way swap with Howletts taking in Bobby and trying to breed from him. AI is also an option. Perhaps London Zoo could anesthesize our Bob and do a reproductive scan on the guy (gorilla male infertility syndrome).
Maybe a 2-way swap with Howletts taking in Bobby and trying to breed from him. AI is also an option. Perhaps London Zoo could anesthesize our Bob and do a reproductive scan on the guy (gorilla male infertility syndrome).
Yes, they are both possible options. I wonder if Howletts would be prepared to cooperate as their relationship with London is very 'frosty'.
Regarding fertility- I suspect the major problem is that Bobby doesn't mate females but so far I've not been able to establish whether this is so. I recently saw a photo of female 'Effie' grappling with him playfully and he was toppling over - definately not typical behaviour of a 'dominant' male silverback...
I believe Ya Kwanza at Jersey is the result of AI...
The gorillas were kept in the animal hospital, which probably caused them some stress (Zaire had lost some of her hair during construction)
Yes he is... he was the first successful product of AI with Gorillas, born at Melbourne Zoo Australia. Despite that success, its only been successful a very few times with Great Apes.
The ZSL hospital/quarantine dens are obviously quite small but that's where they lived. Zaire's hair-plucking began with the death of a previous male (Jomie), it then stopped completely with the arrival of a new male 'Jock'- it resumed again during the 'hospital' phase and it hasn't shown much sign of stopping since.
Mind you, some of the very oldest Howletts females are also plucked on their heads, but not badly like she is.
johnstoni
Well-Known Member
She looked much better when I saw her earlier this year.
I can't actually imagine how small the holding facility is for great apes at the London zoo hospital but I'd be really surprised if it was suitable for keeping them for a year like that. Surely they could have been placed at another zoo for that period? I guess that would involve howletts though, and some people have stated that the two organisations do not really work together.
I can't actually imagine how small the holding facility is for great apes at the London zoo hospital but I'd be really surprised if it was suitable for keeping them for a year like that. Surely they could have been placed at another zoo for that period? I guess that would involve howletts though, and some people have stated that the two organisations do not really work together.
I've seen photos on Flickr taken just recently and she still looks very plucked on her head, shoulders and arms. After Jomie died she was very stressed and tried to dominate the group in the absence of a male. At the same time she sudden became heavily plucked for the first time in her life. It then stopped completely again when Jock arrived and she grew a perfect coat again. This indicates to me that her stress levels dropped away again. Now I fear the habit is established again more permanently. Maybe she's psychologically less happy with Bobby than she was with Jock....
The hospital cages are indeed very small. I heard that 'Zaire' was to be sent to Belfast for this period but it didn't happen. Howletts(Damian Aspinall) has inherited his father's dislike of London Zoo and they only rarely co-operate together. Howletts could easily have provided all the animals for London's new gorilla group but instead London have had to scratch around to make up the small group they have via the EEP.
Something to do with both sides not agreeing with each other's animal keeping styles... I think...
I posted about this somewhere else. Basically its due to historical differences of opinion- (old)Aspinall derided London's huge 'postage stamp' collection with relatively poor breeding success, small cages- the whole urban zoo concept which is the complete opposite of his beliefs. In turn the ZSL establishment viewed him as a 'maverick' with crazy methods of husbandry- lack of safety, keepers entering enclosures etc and they were probably not a little envious of his success rate in breeding too.
This has carried on into the present though just occassionally there's some exchange or movement of animals between the collections but its still pretty rare.
MARK
Well-Known Member
I feel what you have stated here is VERY close to the mark, just compare the breeding records of the two
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