ZSL London Zoo London zoo party nights ‘threaten animal welfare’
- Thread starter Zooplantman
- Start date
Horrifying! Some of the zoo's comments seem complacent to say the least. Cobbett was right. London is the Great Wen (meaning an ugly cyst on the face of England).
Alan
Alan
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
This is interesting, and both the linked article, and the comments which follow, are fair and balanced.
I've not been to one do these events, but must admit to finding the way in which they are marketed rather off-putting - they really are presented as a sort of bacchanalian night out, rather than, as is the case with most late night openings, a chance to see the zoo in a different context. I guess they're all a part of the firewalk / streak through the zoo pattern. If money is raised to the extent suggested, then that is excellent - but hopefully money isn't the only factor.
Other zoos do have late night openings which can be wonderful - Colchester's is always excellent. An extra feeding-time talk at the tamandua enclosure isn't going to attract the same crowds that will gather for a silent disco or a beer tent, but I'm pretty sure that the late-night crowds at Colchester have never cracked glass / poured beer on a tiger / punched a bird.
I've not been to one do these events, but must admit to finding the way in which they are marketed rather off-putting - they really are presented as a sort of bacchanalian night out, rather than, as is the case with most late night openings, a chance to see the zoo in a different context. I guess they're all a part of the firewalk / streak through the zoo pattern. If money is raised to the extent suggested, then that is excellent - but hopefully money isn't the only factor.
Other zoos do have late night openings which can be wonderful - Colchester's is always excellent. An extra feeding-time talk at the tamandua enclosure isn't going to attract the same crowds that will gather for a silent disco or a beer tent, but I'm pretty sure that the late-night crowds at Colchester have never cracked glass / poured beer on a tiger / punched a bird.
I think these "party nights" are becoming a real problem, on the one hand I can see that they have money raising potential but they are also a nuisance not only for the animals within but also for any local residents.
Remember the fuss about a similar party night held at Howletts or Port Lympne (can`t remember which) not that long ago. The problems range from excessive noise, to unruly revellers who are often drunk, and even drug users.
A zoo is no place for any of that.
Many years ago a zoo I know of started to hold "firework parties" in the zoo, but after a great deal of protest from the keeping staff the parties were quickly stopped. Common-sense prevailed.
Remember the fuss about a similar party night held at Howletts or Port Lympne (can`t remember which) not that long ago. The problems range from excessive noise, to unruly revellers who are often drunk, and even drug users.
A zoo is no place for any of that.
Many years ago a zoo I know of started to hold "firework parties" in the zoo, but after a great deal of protest from the keeping staff the parties were quickly stopped. Common-sense prevailed.
Charming. Whatever concerns you might have about Zoo Nights (which I share) I find your comments about London irrelevent and offensive.
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
Given Alan's kindly good nature - apparent in the vast majority of his posts - I think we can assume that this comment was not an altogether serious denunciation of London, nor a suggestion that the yobbery described in the article would only be found in our nation's capital.
Revolting.
Simple answer:ban the alcohol. If they turn up drunk, don't let them in and if they show no respect whilst in the zoo then throw them out. The welfare of the animals is paramount.
I've watched Zoo Lates develop over the last few years and the marketing's certainly changed.What was once advertised as a unique event has turned into a gross money making scheme. Maybe they should change the night it's held on. Certainly the complaints about anti-social behaviour have increased over the last 2 years.
Simple answer:ban the alcohol. If they turn up drunk, don't let them in and if they show no respect whilst in the zoo then throw them out. The welfare of the animals is paramount.
I've watched Zoo Lates develop over the last few years and the marketing's certainly changed.What was once advertised as a unique event has turned into a gross money making scheme. Maybe they should change the night it's held on. Certainly the complaints about anti-social behaviour have increased over the last 2 years.
devilfish
Well-Known Member
I've never made it to a London zoo late either. I don't think a total ban on alcohol is very fair to paying visitors who would like a pleasant glass of wine or a pint on a summer night outing, but it may be the ultimate solution. Maybe it would be better to limit it to restaurants/cafes which are open?
I wonder why the Science Museum and Natural History Museum (both London museums with monthly late events aimed at adults) don't seem to have this issue. Perhaps the price of the ticket means that visitors want to make the most of a night out at the zoo?
Animal Friendly
Well-Known Member
I have read the Guardian article on this issue and the comments made about it from the Captive Animal Protection Society. I am always pleased when I hear how well things are doing for London Zoo these days, as I remember what a dire situation they were in twenty years ago I had reservations about these events a couple of years ago which I discussed on here with fellow members, As much as I am pleased the zoo is making money, it would appear at these events on an evening that animal welfare could be or is being compromised, if that is the case they should be stopped, also what about the poor keepers who have to stop back late after working all day to officiate at these events, Booze ups at a zoo do not mix in my opinion, the dear old Ark at the Park is simply being prostituted, P.S. I did not find Gentle Lemurs comment offensive, he is a fair poster, Should be a moderator on here perhaps
I didn't intend to offend and I apologise if I caused any offence to any ZooChat member.
However I think my comments are relevant: search YouTube for London Zoo Lates and weep. I'm sure that many of the visitors do behave sensibly and reasonably, and most of the others are simply in high spirits - but at the wrong time and in the wrong place. Excesses happen in all parts of the country, particularly when large numbers of people imbibe in the evening. But evening events at other zoos around the country are not like this, judging by my own experience and by other members' comments on this site. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it cannot be an accident that this sort of thing only seems to happen at London Zoo. Why do some Londoners and the ZSL find it acceptable?
Alan
There have been a number of articles on the incidents that have occurred at London Zoo and it is rather shocking to read about individuals attempting to romp around with lions, tigers and penguins. The "affluent 25-35 crowd" is giving the zoo a bad name even though the late nights are financially vital to the organization. Perhaps there needs to be stricter security measures and a slight change in tone for the next jungle party.
Kansas City Zoo in the United States has had multiple incidents spread over several "free days" that are offered for local residents. The latest situation was a series of shots that were fired and fighting that broke out amongst teenagers in March of this year and since then the zoo dramatically altered its stance. The new "Postcard to Adventure" program gives each household in the community 3 free day set of tickets to be used during July, September and November. That way attendance will be spread out and there won't be an environment where 19,000 folks descend on the zoo on a single free day as happened in March.
In regards to London Zoo, maybe all Millwall football fans could be banned forever.* Maybe ZSL could raise the price of tickets so that a few folks will be deterred but the profit margin would remain the same. Perhaps the largest bulk of the crowd could be contained in an area slightly apart from animal exhibits. Maybe the evening could end an hour earlier to curb extra drinking. Something should be done.
* Millwall Football Club has had a number of hooligan fans over the past 100 years.
Kansas City Zoo in the United States has had multiple incidents spread over several "free days" that are offered for local residents. The latest situation was a series of shots that were fired and fighting that broke out amongst teenagers in March of this year and since then the zoo dramatically altered its stance. The new "Postcard to Adventure" program gives each household in the community 3 free day set of tickets to be used during July, September and November. That way attendance will be spread out and there won't be an environment where 19,000 folks descend on the zoo on a single free day as happened in March.
In regards to London Zoo, maybe all Millwall football fans could be banned forever.* Maybe ZSL could raise the price of tickets so that a few folks will be deterred but the profit margin would remain the same. Perhaps the largest bulk of the crowd could be contained in an area slightly apart from animal exhibits. Maybe the evening could end an hour earlier to curb extra drinking. Something should be done.
* Millwall Football Club has had a number of hooligan fans over the past 100 years.
I think this only happens at London because a) being a big city it has high numbers of the 'party-goer' 25-35 age group with money to spend, which the Zoo is evidently attracting with these events. b) its easily accessible by public transport so everyone (that wants to that is) can get drunk and go home afterwards without driving. c). the Zoo has either unwittingly or deliberately encouraged this 'party' atmosphere by either playing down or omitting any educational aspect to these 'nights'. These are mostly people who wouldn't normally be interested in Zoos in other respects and might well not be attracted if it was too heavily advertised as just an educational event focusing on the animals.
It seems the event at Port Lympne- was it a music festival?- attracted a similar clientelle who misbehaved there too. IMO partygoers and animals just don't go well together and I hadn't realised most of the animals at the London events are still on display and accessible, and its not just the venue that is being used here.
Apart from the animal-related incidents already mentioned(Tiger, cracked reptile glass, Penguins, maybe Lions), two more observations from the article;
1. The Giraffe in the photo appear to be cantering- indicating(possibly) some nervousness at the unusual -looking visitors or their actions.
2. Someone was quoted saying 'the Gorillas were throwing poo'. If they throw faeces its an indication they are genuinely stressed and upset to quite a degree.
No doubt they will continue with these events but tighten up on security and general behaviour etc after this unwelcome publicity.
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I read this article, and everybody's posts, with interest. Whilst excessive alcohol and animals may not be the best mix, lets face it. Every day, all around the world, some stupid member of the public is going to act in a disrespectful way to the animals in a zoo...
Whether they have a skin full of lager or not.
I don't think that banning the event is the solution; given the number of incidents versus the number of people the event is attracting and revenue it is generating for the zoo and its conservation work, I would like to see it continue but have to agree with the recommendation above to tighten up security etc.
Whether they have a skin full of lager or not.
I don't think that banning the event is the solution; given the number of incidents versus the number of people the event is attracting and revenue it is generating for the zoo and its conservation work, I would like to see it continue but have to agree with the recommendation above to tighten up security etc.
I've been to Zoo Lates a couple of times and haven't seen any really bad behaviour, certainly nothing more than one would see on an average day in any zoo (members of the public being what they are... )
On the giraffes, the wearing of animal onesies in the hoofstock areas has been banned because it was stressing them, I believe?
) On the giraffes, the wearing of animal onesies in the hoofstock areas has been banned because it was stressing them, I believe?
Incidents have occurred at other zoos apart from London, I know of incidents at two other zoos caused by drunk people getting themselves injured by animals or leaving their broken glass everywhere etc..etc..
Party nights and zoos simply don`t mix, forget the money, it is a bad idea.
Party nights and zoos simply don`t mix, forget the money, it is a bad idea.
IanRRobinson
Well-Known Member
This story got into the Standard and the Telegraph as well. Allowing for the fact that there are always rent-a-mob journalists eager to knock London Zoo, I suspect that there are quite a few London insiders and visitors who aren't all happy with the present mix of commercial activities. It will be interesting to see how this story develops.
Agree absolutely.
Animal Friendly
Well-Known Member
And so do I, perhaps they should think of something else to make a bit of extra money, these late evening booze ups in the long run will do the zoo no good, the negative publicity and criticism will out weigh the financial gains in the long run, I hope it will not be a case of the parties being stopped after a penguin, meerkat or an other small animal gets killed at one of these events, what's the old saying, "drink in, wit out"?
sooty mangabey
Well-Known Member
As is so often the case, though, context is all.
A number of zoos now offer themselves as venues for weddings. I can see that certain zoos would be excellent settings for conferences, with evening social gatherings in the zoo grounds. A group of people - be they the local freemasons, or a gathering of zoo nerds, or whatever - may have a (for them) very pleasant evening in a zoo, which for the zoo will be advantageous too.
The difference with these zoo late events is the way in which they are presented, the way in which they are marketed. @Gentle Lemur advised people to look on Youtube. The zoo's official offerings on there, advertising the events, promote a sort of moronic inanity that makes me question whether even the financial gains that have been discussed merit these things going on.
And as for those financial gains. £800,000 - it sounds like an awful lot of money. But what does it mean? Is that the profit? The turnover? Does it include all evening events? I think I'd take it with a slight pinch of salt....
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