London Zoo/Whipsnade Zoo

[oflory]

Not a capital city but what about the Bristol zoo ?

Haven't they managed alright in terms of finances, available space and with getting visitors whilst also managing the ex-situ conservation of the "little brown jobs" ?

They have, but they still have lions, fur seals, gorillas and pygmy hippos, which I suspect are more of an initial draw than tree kangaroos or palm civets.

They also (a lot like London) have ring tailed lemurs, squirrel monkeys, meerkats, and otters (+ red pandas), which are a subsidiary draw for average zoo visitors, I think.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

They have, but they still have lions, fur seals, gorillas and pygmy hippos, which I suspect are more of an initial draw than tree kangaroos or palm civets.

They also (a lot like London) have ring tailed lemurs, squirrel monkeys, meerkats, and otters (+ red pandas), which are a subsidiary draw for average zoo visitors, I think.

I agree and it is hard to strike a balance but I suspect that to some extent even Jersey Zoo needs it's spectacled bears, lowland gorillas, ring tailed lemurs and Sumatran orangutangs in order to bring in the crowds.

 

[Ned]

Bristol gets less international tourists than London so must rely more on the local population and the Welsh. There are also less competing attractions for families wanting a day out.

 

[Andrew Swales]

Bristol gets less international tourists than London so must rely more on the local population and the Welsh. There are also less competing attractions for families wanting a day out.

Overall, there might be fewer attractions in the Bristol area when compared to London, but there are three similarly sized large zoos in close proximity, for people to chose between...

 

[Ned]

I think many people with young families will visit all three zoos over a period of time, after all there 52 weekends to fill each year. Obviously some people will take out memberships to Bristol / Wild Place or to Noah's Ark and stick with their preferred zoo.
If London, on the other hand, relies heavily on International tourists, I wonder how many put it in their top ten attractions to visit?

 

[garyjp]

I wasn't necessarily advocating London gets rid of all the "big " animals I think they need to keep the gorillas,tigers lions etc but i don't think it would do them any harm in letting the giraffes,zebras,camels,okapi and warthogs go to Whipsnade for instance which wouldn't cost a great deal as they are allready geared up for them. This could free up some space in London and most of those buildings could be re purposed obviously taking into account that a lot of London's buildings are listed and the difficulties that ensue. I also agree that London sometimes go bonkers and almost overspend on things that aren't necessary or just plain OTT. London could/should have interesting species koalas,anteaters,pumas and a couple of extra primate species for example .

 

[Dylan]

Without giraffes, London Zoo’s iconic giraffe house might have to be repurposed for, I dunno, gerbils?

Mini golf course with a goat pen, obviously

 

[Crowthorne]

The giraffe and okapi are big draws, firm favourites with visitors. I don't think it would be in London's favour to move them out to Whipsnade.

 

[Gavialis]

Whilst I personally would love to see London dedicate more space to the little odd things, the point is (as has already been pointed out) how would the general public feel? London gets a lot of tourist footfall, and how many regular tourists want to see a dozen different small rodents, or a collection of Vivverids? Whilst I personally would love it I don't think it's a feasible model for a capital city collection unfortunately.

Onychorhynchus coronatus and oflory have beaten me to the point, but Jersey (incidentally, another zoo that relies heavily on tourist trade) and Bristol prove that a focus on little odd things doesn't have to come at the expense of megafauna (the former does have its financial issues, but these are mainly down to depressed tourism to the island). As FBBird has noted, it's not as if London doesn't have enough unused space.

Either way, there are a variety of rare 'smaller' animals that are already popular with zoo visitors - think giant otters, red pandas, various lemurs, even fossa - and an even larger number that any decent PR department could draw attention to, as indeed Jersey has been doing for many years. I do concur, though, that London couldn't do anything half as inspiring under current management...

@garyjp The giraffes are probably London Zoo's most iconic species and I'm not convinced Whipsnade has the facilities to house a species as delicate as okapi through their harsh winters.

 

[garyjp]

The giraffe and okapi are big draws, firm favourites with visitors. I don't think it would be in London's favour to move them out to Whipsnade.

They have managed without elephants and rhinos - i remember when London had pandas it was the go to animal is it really the same as giraffes or okapi

 

[garyjp]

Onychorhynchus coronatus and oflory have beaten me to the point, but Jersey (incidentally, another zoo that relies heavily on tourist trade) and Bristol prove that a focus on little odd things doesn't have to come at the expense of megafauna (the former does have its financial issues, but these are mainly down to depressed tourism to the island). As FBBird has noted, it's not as if London doesn't have enough unused space.

Either way, there are a variety of rare 'smaller' animals that are already popular with zoo visitors - think giant otters, red pandas, various lemurs, even fossa - and an even larger number that any decent PR department could draw attention to, as indeed Jersey has been doing for many years. I do concur, though, that London couldn't do anything half as inspiring under current management...

@garyjp The giraffes are probably London Zoo's most iconic species and I'm not convinced Whipsnade has the facilities to house a species as delicate as okapi through their harsh winters.

I would of thought the gorillas are London's most iconic animal with the history of Guy - okay i will let the okapi stay at London

 

[Dassie rat]

Here is a list of wild mammals found in London animal collections, according to ZTL:

Sugar glider (Crystal Palace); red-necked wallaby (Battersea, Hounslow & London Zoo); Goodfellows tree kangaroo (London Zoo)

Large hairy armadillo (London Zoo)

Linnaeus two-toed sloth, giant anteater and southern tamandua (both London Zoo)

Lesser hedgehog tenrec (Crystal Palace, Hanwell & London Zoo)

Round-eared sengi (London Zoo)

Cape hyrax (London Zoo)

Ring-tailed lemur (Battersea, Golders Hill, Hanwell and London Zoo); Lac Alaotra bamboo lemur, aye-aye, dry zone slender loris, potto and Moholi galago (all London Zoo); white tufted-ear marmoset (Hanwell); callimico and pied tamarin (both London Zoo); emperor tamarin (Battersea, Hanwell & London Zoo); cotton-top tamarin (Battersea); golden and golden-headed lion tamarins (London Zoo); black-capped capuchin (Battersea); Bolivian squirrel monkey (Battersea & London Zoo); red titi and black spider monkey (both London Zoo); crested black macaque, white-naped mangabey, Diana monkey, guereza, grey langur, northern white-cheeked gibbon and western gorilla (all London Zoo)

Golden hamster (Hounslow); giant jumping and white-tailed tree rats (all London Zoo); Eurasian harvest mouse (Battersea); Common water rat (London Zoo); Northern Luzon giant cloud rat (Battersea); naked mole rat (London Zoo); crested porcupine (Hanwell); Cape porcupine (London Zoo); Patagonian mara (Golders Hill); capybara (Hanwell); Azaras agouti (Battersea & Hanwell); Chilean chinchilla (Crystal Palace); degu (Crystal Palace); Siberian chipmunk (Battersea & Hounslow); Pallas squirrel (Battersea); Swinhoes striped squirrel (London); hazel dormouse (Hanwell)

West European hedgehog (Battersea)

Rodriguez flying fox and Sebas short-tailed bat (London Zoo)

European wild cat (Battersea); margay (Hanwell); serval, tiger and lion (all London Zoo); dwarf mongoose (Hanwell & London Zoo); meerkat (Battersea, Hanwell & London Zoo); narrow-striped boky and African wild dog (both London Zoo); raccoon dog (Hounslow); Asian small-clawed otter (Battersea & London Zoo); European polecat (Battersea); South American coati (Battersea, Golders Hill & London Zoo)

Plains zebra (London Zoo)

Red river hog, common warthog, Sulawesi babirusa, pygmy hippopotamus, okapi, giraffe and Reeves muntjac (all London Zoo); Common fallow deer (Golders Hill & Richmond Park); red deer (Richmond Park); red duiker (London Zoo)

 

[Daubentoniidae]

London could always do with having a few other medium-sized or large mammals but there wouldn't be enough space to fit them in with the current layout, if you just look at an old map of the zoo you can really see just how crammed in all the animals where and the exhibits were pretty small. Obviously nothing like that could ever happen again and as much as I'd love to see some rhinoceros or bears return, it isn't very likely.

 

[Crowthorne]

They have managed without elephants and rhinos - i remember when London had pandas it was the go to animal is it really the same as giraffes or okapi

They may have managed without elephants, but their absence is noted. Barely a visit goes by where I don't hear someone wondering where the elephants are. At least with the giraffe, the public can see an easily recognisable and familiar animal. As much as we all love the more obscure and unusual, for the general visitors its a good bet to get them hooked with an animal they can easily recognise (giraffe, gorilla, tiger, lion), which can then lead them onto the other, more unusual animals in the 'supporting cast'.

 

[oflory]

London could always do with having a few other medium-sized or large mammals but there wouldn't be enough space to fit them in with the current layout, if you just look at an old map of the zoo you can really see just how crammed in all the animals where and the exhibits were pretty small. Obviously nothing like that could ever happen again and as much as I'd love to see some rhinoceros or bears return, it isn't very likely.

I've speculated in the past on here about having a single male GOH rhino in the old tapir/current babirusa side of the Casson, which I think would conceivably work. Getting dangerously close to me posting my 'realistic' fantasy master-plan...

 

[Gavialis]

I've speculated in the past on here about having a single male GOH rhino in the old tapir/current babirusa side of the Casson, which I think would conceivably work. Getting dangerously close to me posting my 'realistic' fantasy master-plan...

A similar idea to one of ZSL's own - in the now-discarded 2014 masterplan, the other Casson paddock (now holding red river hogs) would have been expanded onto all three adjacent lawns to create an 'Asian Plains' exhibit featuring Indian rhino - probably to complement Land of the Lions.

 

[oflory]

A similar idea to one of ZSL's own - in the now-discarded 2014 masterplan, the other Casson paddock (now holding red river hogs) would have been expanded onto all three adjacent lawns to create an 'Asian Plains' exhibit featuring Indian rhino - probably to complement Land of the Lions.

Interesting, I didn't know that!

 

[Andrew Swales]

I think many people with young families will visit all three zoos over a period of time, after all there 52 weekends to fill each year. Obviously some people will take out memberships to Bristol / Wild Place or to Noah's Ark and stick with their preferred zoo.
If London, on the other hand, relies heavily on International tourists, I wonder how many put it in their top ten attractions to visit?

Why does London Zoo 'rely heavily on international tourists' - when London has 9 million residents?
Bristol's half a million residents, sustain 3 zoos with a combined visitor total of around the same as London Zoo...
So roughly the same zoo attendance with only about 5% of the resident population - and without the foreign tourists ... ?

 

[Dassie rat]

Here is a list of wild Mammals in Bristol's collections:
Eastern quoll and kowari (Bristol Zoo)

New Guinea ground cuscus and brush-tailed bettong (Bristol Zoo); red-necked wallaby (Noahs Ark); Parma wallaby (Wild Place); Goodfellows tree kangaroo (Bristol Zoo)

Six-banded armadillo (Bristol Zoo)

Linnaeuss two-toed sloth (Bristol Zoo); giant anteater (Noahs Ark)

Lesser hedgehog tenrec (Noahs Ark)

African elephant (Noahs Ark)

Mongoose and red-bellied lemurs (Wild Place); ring-tailed lemur (Bristol Zoo, Noahs Ark & Wild Place); blue-eyed black and crowned lemurs (Bristol Zoo); Lac Alaotra gentle lemur (Bristol Zoo & Wild Place); black and white ruffed lemur (Noahs Ark & Wild Place); aye-aye and pygmy slow loris (Bristol Zoo); white tufted -ear marmoset and cotton-top tamarin (Noahs Ark); golden and golden-headed lion tamarins, common squirrel monkey, black-and-gold howler monkey, Colombian brown spider monkey and lion-tailed macaque (Bristol Zoo); gelada (Wild Place); siamang (Noahs Ark); agile gibbon and western gorilla (Bristol Zoo)

Giant jumping rat, Turkish spiny and western house mice, roof rat, naked mole rat (Bristol Zoo); Cape porcupine (Noahs Ark); Patagonian mara (Bristol Zoo & Noahs Ark); capybara (Noahs Ark); Azaras agouti (Bristol Zoo & Noahs Ark); degu and black-tailed prairie dog (Noahs Ark)

Comoro flying fox (Bristol Zoo)

Northern lynx (Wild Place); cheetah (Wild Place); lion (Bristol Zoo and Noahs Ark); yellow mongoose (Bristol Zoo); meerkat (Bristol Zoo, Noahs Ark & Wild Place); wolf (Wild Place); spectacled bear (Noahs Ark); brown bear (Wild Place): South American fur seal and North American river otter (Bristol Zoo); wolverine (Wild Place); striped skunk and south American coati (Noahs Ark); northern raccoon and red panda (Bristol Zoo)

Plains zebra (Noahs Ark & Wild Place); South American tapir and white rhinoceros (Noahs Ark)

Red river hog (Wild Place); Negros warty pig and pygmy hippopotamus (Bristol Zoo); Java mouse deer (Bristol Zoo); okapi (Wild Place); giraffe (Noahs Ark & Wild Place); red deer (Noahs Ark); Kirks dik-dik (Wild Place); American bison (Noahs Ark); Common eland (Wild Place)

 

[Loxodonta Cobra]

A similar idea to one of ZSL's own - in the now-discarded 2014 masterplan, the other Casson paddock (now holding red river hogs) would have been expanded onto all three adjacent lawns to create an 'Asian Plains' exhibit featuring Indian rhino - probably to complement Land of the Lions.

Where can that plan be found online? Or what else was included in it?