Los Angeles Zoo & Botanical Gardens Los Angeles Elephant Sanctuary

I have visited the Valley Zoo countless times in my life, as I lived in Edmonton for 10 years when I was younger and I have been back there a few times since. Lucy the elephant has been at the zoo for an eternity, and she is completely alone and occupies one of the worst elephant exhibits I've ever seen. One year in the mid-1980's there was snow for 8 months and the elephants (the zoo had 1-2 more at the time) were locked in for the bulk of that time. With the cold weather there are weeks and even months where she is inside a dark, concrete hole 24 hours a day, and the fact that the establishment has not moved her is a black mark on the entire zoo industry. I really do think that the various directors of the Valley Zoo should hang their heads in SHAME for the way that this solitary elephant has been treated. Anyone who thinks that this elephant deserves to stay in Edmonton inside a terribly cramped enclosure is a not an animal lover, and I'd love to see her sent to another zoo. A zoo, sanctuary, anywhere! Lucy needs companions and a normal life rather than rocking back and forth in the depths of a concrete bunker. I have seen her stereotypical behaviour with my own eyes, and there are ZERO excuses for her desperate situation.
 
I welcome this kind of attention being paid to Lucy.
It is about time that animal rights groups toke a more rational approach to their efforts and actually concentrate their efforts on some of the animals and institutions that are lagging behind others in terms of welfare.

A lot of the arguments that were used by pro-Zoo groups in the Los Angeles elephant debate would be much less applicable to the case of Lucy. The Valley Zoo in Edmonton does not have the resources that most other AZA Zoos possess, something that I think is evident, for instance, in their full time in staff employment of ZERO veterinarians and their dependence on a private practitioner outside of the facility.

Edmonton's Valley Zoo is not AZA accredited and not only does this mean that their standards lag behind other Zoos, but also that it will be much more difficult for them to obtain other elephants in the future. If Lucy stays in Edmonton I doubt that she will ever receive a companion, a situation that I think none of the people on this site would be comfortable with.

Besides not receiving a companion it is very unlikely that a new impressive elephant exhibit will be built in the near future. Obviously it would be incredibly expensive to create a large indoor facility in Edmonton and maintain it. I would argue that even a Cologne type facility in Edmonton might not be sufficient.

As far as conservation and education goes, well according to the Valley Zoo's own master plans the cons of sending Lucy and Nikki(now gone) include such problems as losing attendance, union issues, and the loss of their icon, and absolutely nothing about losing education or conservation opportunities!


Even if the wider Zoo community wanted to support Edmonton's Valley Zoo they would not find it an easy task!
 
Yassa said:
Lucy is way too old to breed, and you should make the effort and learn a bit about elephants before posting such nonsense. And learn more about the 2 big elephant sanctuaries in the US, too, or you wouldn`t dare to call PAWS a "stupid, unregulated place". They have set themselves standards which are way HIGHER then those of the AZA, and they are working with vets and consultants which are highly regarded in the zoo industry (Alan Roocroft and Gayle Lale, for example, while the vet of the elephant sanctuary in Tenn. is Susan Mikota!). I want the best for each animal, regardless who else wants the same!!

Zoos don`t have the space to accommodate "problem" elephants if they prove to be uncompartible with the resident female(s), while both sanctuaries have enough space to keep their elephant herd in smaller subgroups without having to lock one group inside or in small yards, and that alone is a huge reason why those 2 sanctuaries are better equipped to care for single females. Not talking about the massive amount of space they offer.
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Funny that you say that PAWS is above AZA Standards, I saw a show once about them once and it showed the tiger "exhibits". They were pretty much Guzoo Animal Farm material (Check the photo gallery). Threy should send her to National Zoo, Los Angeles Zoo, San Diego Zoo or one of those zoos which are creating amazing exhibits as we speak
 
Zoogoer2000 said:
They should send her to National Zoo, Los Angeles Zoo, San Diego Zoo or one of those zoos which are creating amazing exhibits as we speak
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Hey, what a beautiful idea!! Send Lucy to Los Angeles!! Wouldn't that be the ultimate IN-YOUR-FACE solution for Bob Barker?
 
Yes that would be really good idea. I think the best would be San Diego as Elephant Odyssey will house all older elephants, with the youngest being 43 and the oldest being 60.
 
I'm very curious as to which elephants LA will receive, considering it is the only Asian Elephant expansion that doesn't currently have females. I keep bringing this point up, its gonna be a tough fight for LA to get someone, or multiple zoos to give up their females. I think Barnum and Bailey CC or Rockton should give up a few females that could be dispersed throughout the US, considering they have plenty to spare. Plus, some of the Rockton genes are valuable!
 
Dont worry, that's why there are SSPs. And at this point all elephants (except for many of Ringling's) should be considered valuable to the captive breeding program.
 
Another Example

OK, here's another example of the animal rights wackos attacking another Zoo -- this time the very politically correct Woodland Park Zoo! Their elephant exhibit is one of the best in the country!
Actress Lily Tomlin demands Woodland Park Zoo release elephants

Shoot, this is Hancocks' old zoo! If this zoo isn't good enough, none is. Which of course is their point! This is what happens, folks, when we take the PETA and IDA complaints seriously! The best thing to do with them is to IGNORE them! Everything (yes, everything!) they contribute is idiotic! Their "Ten Worst Elephant Exhibits" list is stupid and silly, and we should regard it as such.
 
When David Hancocks was Design Coordinator and then Director of Woodland Park Zoo from the mid-70s to the mid-80s, he knew Bamboo as a "cooperative, trustworthy, smart and playful" elephant. Though Hancock readily admits that the Zoo's housing for Bamboo was substandard, he and the rest of the elephant care staff did all they could to treat her with respect, providing the young elephant with mental and physical enrichment, as well as extended time with caretakers. But decades of living in squalor and the reintroduction of harsh management methods after Hancock’s departure – including daily overnight chaining and physical beatings – "deeply changed...this gentle and docile elephant" according to the former Zoo Director. "Like so many other zoo animals around the world," he wrote in a letter to a Seattle Councilman, "her spirit appears to be broken
 
clm1950 said:
When David Hancocks was Design Coordinator and then Director of Woodland Park Zoo from the mid-70s to the mid-80s, he knew Bamboo as a "cooperative, trustworthy, smart and playful" elephant. Though Hancock readily admits that the Zoo's housing for Bamboo was substandard, he and the rest of the elephant care staff did all they could to treat her with respect, providing the young elephant with mental and physical enrichment, as well as extended time with caretakers. But decades of living in squalor and the reintroduction of harsh management methods after Hancock’s departure – including daily overnight chaining and physical beatings – "deeply changed...this gentle and docile elephant" according to the former Zoo Director. "Like so many other zoo animals around the world," he wrote in a letter to a Seattle Councilman, "her spirit appears to be broken
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Let's not forget that Hancocks was flown in, paid for by the IDA and other enemies of the Zoo World, to testify AGAINST the Los Angeles Zoo. It's called "sleeping with the enemy".
CLM1950: If you hate zoos so much, why are you on this board?
 
I don't hate Zoos. I am a member of Zoo Atlanta. I just love elephants and in my opinion, zoos aren't doing enough for the elephants in their care and they aren't doing enough to help preserve their natural habitats.
 
How are zoos not doing enough for elephants?

Woodland PArk Zoo has a whole page on their website about all the conservation projects they are involved with for elephants.

Also zoos are building elephant exhibits costing between 20-50 million. How is that not doing enough? Elephants have basically been the focus of all zoos with them in the past year. Your statement that their not doing enough is false.
 
I tend to disagree with the ele dogmatists.

I find there is TOO MUCH of a focus on elephant conservation in zoos at the expense of a immense number of endangered species with a NOT SO CUDDLY PR-IMAGE! ;)

I find that trend rather worrying ... as I do all the spaces the elephants take up in massive exhibits that have usually blown away at least 5-10 other taxa/species from the zoo. :mad:
 
clm1950 said:
I don't hate Zoos. I am a member of Zoo Atlanta. I just love elephants and in my opinion, zoos aren't doing enough for the elephants in their care and they aren't doing enough to help preserve their natural habitats.
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OK, if you're not a Zoo-hater, then I apologize. It's just a natural reaction of mine to think of anyone who agrees with PETA, IDA, and Hancocks as a "zoo-hater". But I stand corrected, in your case. But I hope some of the points being brought out on this thread will make you realize that almost all of the evidence brought out by these zoo-haters is false! So you might want to think twice before quoting them again.

Kifaru Bwana said:
I find there is TOO MUCH of a focus on elephant conservation in zoos at the expense of a immense number of endangered species with a NOT SO CUDDLY PR-IMAGE! ;)
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Wow, good points, Kifaru! Never thought of it that way!
 
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