Lowland gorillas in Europe 2012

Status
Not open for further replies.
Great news about the baby in Lisbon and Banga`s move. She is genetically important and was totally wasted in Madrid. I had almost given up hope that they would let her go. She`s still young enough to breed.

I just don`t get why the EEP is not trying to make a lot more pairings that are genetically important on both the fathers and the mothers side - almost all gorillas that are genetically important are paired to someone who is from one of the 5 (?) very well represented lines. Now the Yaounde at La Vallee des Singes is under-represented (yet..), but he has already a number of offspring from 3 genetically important females, so why not pair Banga to a silverback that has only overrepresented females to breed with? The wildborn males in Colgne and Munich come into my mind, or Nicky in Cabarceno.
 
I doubt 'Niky' at Cabarceno would be successful with an adult female like 'Banga'- he seems very gentle and humanised, but nevertheless fortunately he has proved successful with the two very young females. The other two you suggest- 'Kim' and 'Rotutu'- are getting on age-wise now but more likely I think than Niky to breed with her if they had tried that. But I guess a successful group leader like Youande represents an ever better chance and maybe easier mixing?
 
Nisha said:
Nasibu and Anguka have a daughter :D
First gorilla born at Lisbon zoo - The Portugal News
Click to expand...

A very important baby genetically. This is the 2nd birth(first successful) from Anguka, but nothing(?) yet from the two older females Bak and Ulca, so its possible Nasibu may only mate/father any young with Anguka. So she needs to have several babies to ensure his line, or they could perhaps add another younger female to the group to help achieve that.
 
I would be very interested and grateful to know about the important role Pertinax the gorilla has played in the education of adolescent gorillas :). The gorilla club I belong to would be very interested to know whether he is infertile given that he is not permitted to breed. Likewise, I would also be fascinated to know something about his personality. Much appreciated :)
 
I believe Pertinax is calm and quite gentle nowadays.

There is no reason to think he is infertile but he has never had a breeding opportunity to find out.

I think he plays the 'senior' role in the group as he is much older than the other young males and so they are respectful of him. But I have seen him play with younger males sometimes also.

Pertinax first arrived at Paignton with another same-aged male 'Klaus' whom he grew up with at Cologne Zoo. But they fought badly at Paignton and soon had to be seperated permanently. Klaus went to Bristol Zoo but later died. 2 more younger males then arrived at Paignton- Richard and Awali- to form the initial male group with Pertinax. At first Pertinax seemed very depressed, often sitting in one place facing the wall, but gradually he came out of it. Two more males, Mambi and Asato were added later. In those days despite the zoo describing him as the 'senior' or 'dominant' male of the group, I (personally) don't think Pertinax was very dominant over them- as the four younger males matured his appearance changed quite markedly- he lost the male sexual 'silverback' saddle-colour and the thick black arm hair he had when he first arrived, so that he resembled more a big female, plus he seemed to be in the background to me.

After the younger males all left to go to other Zoos, several new ones arrived. This time the age gap between Pertinax and the others is much wider- he's 28 now and the oldest of the others in with him* is only about 10. Once more these days he is fully 'silvered' again and obviously dominant. He has always had a sleeping bench which is very much 'his' and the younger ones don't normally use.

I don't know much about his day-to-day relationship with the others though.

*The other fully adult male there- Kumbuka, 15 years, who is soon going to London, hasn't been kept with Pertinax or the others for some time now. I think they are frightened they would fight if they were put together now.

Pertinax sometimes suffers from ulcerated feet.

Somewhere on Zoochat is a link to a scientific paper describing the early relationships between the males at Paignton, including of course Pertinax. It is very much from the past though as apart from Pertinax, the males are all different ones now and the group obviously has a different balance.
 
Last edited:
Thank you very much for the nice report. It is is extremely interesting to hear about Pertinax and his role in the bachelor group. I am glad to hear he has the dignified appearance of a silverback. Much appreciated :)
 
Pertinax said:
... as the four younger males matured his appearance changed quite markedly- he lost the male sexual 'silverback' saddle-colour and the thick black arm hair he had when he first arrived, so that he resembled more a big female, ... Once more these days he is fully 'silvered' again and obviously dominant.
Click to expand...

This is completely new to me - do you say a male's appearance and the colour of his coat depends on the social structure of the group he is in? I remember I've read once that an adult male matures also outwardly ("silverback") when he gets to lead a group, but did not pay much attention to it then. Basically I thought they all get their silvery coat at the age of around 12 no matter their role. Now you say the silver may even vanish under certain circumstances, and that the colour refers to their dominance, right? Would you please elaborate on that subject?
 
Willard said:
This is completely new to me - do you say a male's appearance and the colour of his coat depends on the social structure of the group he is in? I remember I've read once that an adult male matures also outwardly ("silverback") when he gets to lead a group, but did not pay much attention to it then. Basically I thought they all get their silvery coat at the age of around 12 no matter their role. Now you say the silver may even vanish under certain circumstances, and that the colour refers to their dominance, right? Would you please elaborate on that subject?
Click to expand...

I think that the acquistion of the silverback in males is somehow related to psychological changes as well as to physical maturity. But the case of Pertinax is the only one I have ever seen where such 'reversable' type of appearance has happened. I even have photos of him at the different stages.;) When he arrived at Paignton he was 15 years old, a typical 'silverback' with the grizzled peppered/silver coat on his back and bottom, the characteristic patch of thin 'velvety' hair in the small of the back and the thick black arm hair which are all characteristics of a silverback.

During the period with the first group of males as I described, his hair turned regulation greyish-colour all over and the thick black arm hair disappeared. But now he has assumed the full silverback appearance again.

I don't know of any other males where such changes have occurred like that. for example all the adult males in the Port Lympne bachelor groups have full silverback appearance. But the old male 'Joe' at Twycross was another male who never developed the characteristic 'silverback' and thick black-haired arms either. He was just greyish all over throughout his whole life, and was a very humanised, rather abnormal male.

The age at which males normally make the transformation to 'silverback' is around 10-12 as you said. The thick black arm hair isn't usually developed fully for a couple more years after - I think 15 is often the peak of full development. Sometimes males do mature earlier, particularly if there is no older male present. There is a male at Howletts- Bitono who has matured early, possibly because there is no older male(his father Kijo died) in the group. He is silverbacked, but his long arm hair isn't apparent yet. Sometimes they are later- Yeboah' who died at ZSL, was thirteen and only a blackback still- his father 'Arti' was a similar 'late developer' so maybe there is a genetic connection to thetime it happens.

The males of some other Primate species like Orangutans and Mandrills sometimes supress development of their mature (secondary sexual) characteristics such as Cheek flanges and big size(Orangutans) and bright colour and growth(Mandrills) in the presence of an older, dominant male. I suspect something like that may have happened in Pertinax' case too.
 
What has been described is a reversibility of gorilla males adulthood (silverback, long arm hair) due to a change in groupsdynamics.
That reversibility has been unknown to me.
I only can imagine that is happened to lack of producing testosteron due to a changed social situation.

Are there more examples of this phenomena?
 
john said:
What has been described is a reversibility of gorilla males adulthood (silverback, long arm hair) due to a change in groupsdynamics.
That reversibility has been unknown to me.
I only can imagine that is happened to lack of producing testosteron due to a changed social situation.

Are there more examples of this phenomena?
Click to expand...

Pertinax is the only example I have ever seen/known of this happening. The old male 'Joe' at Twycross was similar in appearance to Pertinax at his low ebb, but in Joe's case he never really acquired the secondary characteristics of silvered back and thick armhair to start with. For much of his life he lived adjacent to another male 'Mamfe' who was a typical(though also rather humanised) silverback in appearance.

If you look at Pertinax now he looks like a typical 'silverback' again.
 
'Something happened to Pertinax'.

Willard said:
Thanks a lot, Pertinax! :D
Click to expand...

My eyes didn't deceive me either...;) I will try and post the photos of him in his different 'phases' to prove this, but the earlier ones are only prints at present so may be a while.
 
Warsaw

For all of you interested in the two males living in Warsaw, Poland, Katerina Jisova has just posted a beautiful set of photos on Flickr. Both M'Tonge (13) and Azizi (12) are magnificent silverbacks in their prime, and a great pleasure to look at.
 
Willard said:
BothM'Tonge (13) and Azizi (12) are magnificent silverbacks in their prime, and a great pleasure to look at.
Click to expand...

They are great shots.

I took one look at the face of the younger one 'Azizi' - without knowing his parentage- and thought- he's a 'Jersey' line Gorilla. Sure enough when I checked, his father is Zurich 'Ngola' who was born at Jersey- 'Azizi' has the distinctive likeness to both father 'Ngola' and grandmother 'Npongo'-all her children look facially very like her.

'Mtonge' is very handsome, but you could see that when he was a blackback too.
 
Last edited:
Great news! I was totally wrong .Last Friday Ali and Mambi were fathers of a baby gorilla (unknown sex by the moment)
 
Pertinax said:
Any truth in the rumour that gorilla 'Mambi' has fathered a baby with one of the females here?
Click to expand...

I guess the female was still pregnant when I wrote this, so the rumour was correct- or almost.;)

Good news and proves despite being handraised, Mambi is not a waste of space.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top