Lowland gorillas in Europe 2013

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@WIllard, which zoo???

Anyway, the option is either castration or euthanizia, the latter being a gigantic debate in gorillaworld. There are just way to many gorilla males to place, so this is a safe option. I suppose it won't belong before many gorilla's get anti-conception...
 
lintworm said:
@WIllard, which zoo???

Anyway, the option is either castration or euthanizia, the latter being a gigantic debate in gorillaworld. There are just way to many gorilla males to place, so this is a safe option. I suppose it won't belong before many gorilla's get anti-conception...
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Artis Amsterdam.
 
lintworm said:
@WIllard, which zoo???

Anyway, the option is either castration or euthanizia, the latter being a gigantic debate in gorillaworld. There are just way to many gorilla males to place, so this is a safe option. I suppose it won't belong before many gorilla's get anti-conception...
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I put the zoo name in the title of the posting. ;)

Could you please say a little more about the debate on euthanasia? I mean is it really considered an option?

Anyway, there are more options than just the two you mentioned (or three, if I include contraception/birth control). - (1) Selective birth control, i.e. aborting only male fetuses, as considered in Australia. (2) Keeping solitary males. (3) Bachelor groups. Some of them work, others don't. It probably depends on the individuals' personality. Warsaw for instance keeps two unrelated adult males, and they get along well together, play a lot, no fightings.

Personally I'm in favour of general birth control and bachelor groups. There are too many babies now in Europe. And as probably any farmer would say (provided he can't sell them), you can only have as much offspring from your livestock as you are able to house. So if Europe doesn't have enough space for bachelor groups, less babies should be the EEP's option of choice and that means birth control.

By the way, this topic (Bembosi's castration, and castration in general) has been discussed very intensely, controversially and also emotionally on Facebook today. And I'm surprised that not more people took up on it here on ZooChat.
 
Willard said:
By the way, this topic (Bembosi's castration, and castration in general) has been discussed very intensely, controversially and also emotionally on Facebook today. And I'm surprised that not more people took up on it here on ZooChat.
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Well a lot more people on Zoochat think animals are just disposable bags of genes, the Facebook crowd involved in the discussion are 'animals as people' people. They'd care even less if it were chimps as chimp hating is something to be proud of on here!
 
Willard said:
By the way, this topic (Bembosi's castration, and castration in general) has been discussed very intensely, controversially and also emotionally on Facebook today. And I'm surprised that not more people took up on it here on ZooChat.
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I can't find the thread(s) where Gorilla castration was discussed previously. As far as I know its only been done a couple of times until now- Kukuma born at Apenheul and who died at Belfast as adult a couple of years ago was probably the first. Then there is 'Loango' at Kerkrade, also born in Apenheul, who was done in 2007. I don't know of any others until this new batch.

Given Akili's (ex Matz/Frankfurt) line is very well represented, do you think they intend to do all six young males? That is fairly drastic (though I'm not suggesting its the wrong decision) Or maybe it depends on the three Artis mothers' varying representation.

The other alternatives are much as you say. Some places do already practice birth control on selected females. I don't think the science is there yet to determine the sex though? But its a very difficult scenario IMO. The new places able to start up bachelor groups or keep single males must eventually run out, so what to do with all the upcoming young males? Its already been a problem for some years and evidently the situation is growing worse. So possibly as you suggest, a stronger curb on breeding overall is required, but this will eventually affect the social interest, activity and cohesion of 'family' groups if there are no young infants growing up in them. If Kumbuka's behaviour at Belfast was typical, castration means these males can at least continue living in mixed-sex groups without any tension or hostility either toward or from them- but again, if Kumbuka was typical, they won't develop normal adult male characteristics either. But that is probably a relatively small price to pay for being able to keep them living harmoniously in existing groups and with no danger of them breeding.

The ethics of it is another matter altogether I think.
 
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Howletts / Kerkrade

On December 16, female Tamidol (she will be 15 y.o. this Saturday) was moved from Djanghou's Group ("G3") at Howletts to the GaiaZoo in Kerkrade, Netherlands.
 
john said:
Did they provided Tamidol with anticonception?
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I don't know but I rather doubt it. Afaik the females in most of their groups are free-breeding. Someone else might know if any of them are contracepted? Sometimes they get females that for some reason fail to breed, or stop breeding after some years of having babies with one male- they recently moved two of the females from the Kifu group to the Kouillou group (now moved to Port Lympne) apparently for that reason.
 
According to the press release from Gaiazoo, Tamidol was on the pill in Howletts and has only now been taken off it. Howletts has so many females in breeding age and rather few births (given the numbers of females) - my guess is they have a number of gorillas on birth control.
 
I seem to have problems with Deletions now, perhaps in the changeover from being a Moderator. I will try and get it back. Obviously I'd prefer to retract the statement about 'Tamidol' being a non-breeder in the light of this information, so just ignore it.

I was unaware until now that any of the females at Howletts have been contracepted. That's interesting news. I wonder if any others are.



{Note from mods - this thread continues here: Lowland Gorillas in Europe 2014}
 
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