Lowland Gorillas in Europe 2014

[Pertinax]

I was not aware of Basel. Could you please elaborate?

Father/son combinations: I thought zoos wait as long as possible before they move a son to another zoo. (For instance, a keeper from Munich told me they won't move Sadiki until the conflicts with his father Roututu increase intolerably. Besides, they want to wait as long as possible so they can move Sadiki together with his younger brother Kajolu, in order to keep the two brothers together - probably when moving them to Schmiding Zoo.) Do you want to say the EEP recommends transfers at a certain age, regardless of the respective father/son relationship?

When Basel opened their current house- circa 1967/8 all the Gorillas were put together in one group for the first time. The young male 'Pepe' (originally the mate for 'Goma') was about 12 years old and silverbacked by then. However when I saw them like that the older silverback 'Steffi' was obviously stressed by this arrangement and kept 'Pepe' confined to the furthest enclosure on his own, while preventing the others joining him there. This arrangement was later terminated by giving Pepe just Goma as a companion (Pepe later became group leader on Steffi's death). But being his sons, the young males 'Jambo' and 'Migger' both lived with their father quite successfully until they were nearly adult and sent elsewhere.

Howletts occassionally had two silverbacks together in their earlier days too, Djoum and Mumbah were one example but it wasn't very longterm.

Age at which males are removed. Some zoos do leave a son in the natal group until he's nearly mature, others don't. I don't know of any EEP recommendation about this. It seems to depend on individual circumstances, as in your Munich example. Similarly, 'Kesho' was still with his father at Dublin at age 11 and silverbacked, perhaps because there was no place for him until ZSL took him, whereas his two younger brothers were removed at much younger ages(particularly the youngest) because they could go to Longleat. 'Matadi' left Twycross aged 8 to join Paignton's male group because the new silverback 'Oumbie' rejected him(EEP had said they should get along okay but they didn't). On the other hand Bristol have said they want to keep their young male 'Komale' in the group as long as possible- a good move IMO. I think it very much depends on individual circumstances every time but efforts should be made to keep them as long as is feasible.

 

[Pertinax]

As wonderful as it is to see gorillas in zoos I have doubts about whether the price they pay is too high for a significant proportion of them.

I certainly don't like the idea of castrated males routinely forming part of groups, but it looks as if that could happen in the future if a better solution isn't found. I think a severe curb on breeding (more so thn at present) would be preferable to this.

 

[zooman]

. I think a severe curb on breeding (more so thn at present) would be preferable to this.

Really, l am not convinced as l know you are very well aware a gorilla group without a couple of young 1-3 years old is a very unnatural environment. The benefits to the troop and public education ( we all know the public will spend allot more time looking and learning about a animal if it is active, than when sedentary when no young in the troop ) is significant.

The sacrifice to the individual male l am not convinced is unacceptable as in reality he would actually have no idea.

Not saying this is right, but it has to be considered.

 

[Willard]

Tara S. Stoinski - All Male Groups (2013)

That would be great

Here it is!

 

[Pertinax]

I forgot to mention Basel Zoo also later kept the silverbacks 'Pepe' and 'TamTam' together as well at later date. I have photos somewhere of them either fighting or playing- not sure which as I didn't take them. 'TamTam' was actually Goma's son by her brother(Jambo) but he grew up with Pepe as the group leader so they may well have had a father/son relationship too.

 

[Pertinax]

Here it is!

Thanks for posting. I hadn't realised there were so many(23?) male groups in the USA though some are very small evidently. One thing that arises from this is they suggest the most successful groups have been those where the males are all similar-aged, and introduced when they are in the 6-8 age range. This makes sense in so much as younger animals are usually easier to put together than e.g. adult males, which is often next to impossible. If this model is followed in Europe too, it could mean males destined for male groups are routinely removed from their natal groups at an earlier age than the genetically valuable ones that are earmarked for breeding groups early on. Though in practise of course individual requirements/availability of places in male groups may mean not all males are moved when they are of optimum or similar age.

Statements in this article refer to the formation of bachelor groups naturally in the wild in Western Gorillas- previously I was given to understand from other scientific observations they do not occur. Which is correct?

But I think things have now moved on in Europe to the stage where male groups are no longer the complete answer for the burgeoning population, after all there must come a point where no more zoos want to have one- they are very costly to build/house for a start, hence them looking at( and taking- castration) other options for surplus males in future.

 

[Willard]

But I think things have now moved on in Europe to the stage where male groups are no longer the complete answer for the burgeoning population, after all there must come a point where no more zoos want to have one- they are very costly to build/house for a start, hence them looking at( and taking- castration) other options for surplus males in future.

Thank you for the information on Basel!

The "burgeoning population" in Europe is exactly the problem. An EEP official said, or should I say admitted, there are not enough (good) zoos ready to take bachelor groups. That's why I'm in favour of a more restrictive breeding policy.

According to the EEP's vice-coordinator Neil Bemment, there are 19 all-male groups now, compared to 23 in America (as you said, but I think I have read somewhere it's a few more, 27 possibly, but can't find the source at the moment). While, and that's the point, America in total has 20% less gorillas than Europe (344 and 429, respectively, according to the Studbook 2012). So apparently they are able and willing to provide the space and money necessary for these groups.

The EEP's male groups:
• La Palmyre, France (~1989)
• LoroParque, Spain (~1995)
• Port Lympne, U.K. (2 groups: March 1997 / July 2007)
• Paignton, U.K. (April 1997)
• Boissiere du Doré, France (April 2002; current group April 2010)
• Schmiding, Austria (March 2004)
• Opole, Poland (May 2005)
• Beekesbergen, The Netherlands (September 2006)
• Warsaw, Poland (September 2008)
• Valencia, Spain (October 2009)
• Pretoria, South Africa (June 2010)
• Sosto, Hungary (June 2010)
• Werribee, Australia (October 2011)
• Amneville (2 groups: February 2012 / March 2012)
• Warminster, U.K. (July 2012)
• Rhenen, The Netherlands (2013)
• Beauval, France (July 2013)

 

[Pertinax]

as you said, but I think I have read somewhere it's a few more, 27 possibly, but can't find the source at the moment.

I misread it in the article you posted above , it is indeed 27 groups- in 23 Zoos in the US.

Regarding your list of European/EEP managed all-male groups- its useful to see them all listed together in one place. I always thought Loro Parc was the first one and rather overlooked La Palmyre. The two males concerned are handraised brothers which grew up together though I'm not sure that they are still able to keep them together nowadays?

 

[Willard]

La Palmyre

La Palmyre. The two males concerned are handraised brothers which grew up together though I'm not sure that they are still able to keep them together nowadays?

Mike and N'Yuki are still together. The photo is from summer 2013, (c) Arjan Haverkamp.

 

[Pertinax]

Thanks. That looks a lot better than where they used to live.

Now they have lost the breeding male 'Bongo' at La Palmyre I guess they will looking at bringing in another new male, rather than trying to use one of these two as 1. they are not socialised with other gorillas and 2. it would leave the other alone.

 

[Nisha]

On November 23 N'Aika gave birth to her first child. The father is most likely not silverback Bauwi, but almost 12-years-old male Likalay Lulu (aka Lulimby). He is supposed to move to a zoo in France next spring.

Likalay is due to go to St Martin La Plaine during February

 

[Gorillas Land]

Likalay Lulu (Likalé) (Burgers' Zoo) was moved on February 4th 2014 to Espace Zoologique Saint Martin la Plaine. He will set a new breeding group together with females Digit and Gypsy. He has been already on eye contact with Digit.

 

[Pertinax]

Likalay Lulu (Likalé) (Burgers' Zoo) was moved on February 4th 2014 to Espace Zoologique Saint Martin la Plaine. He will set a new breeding group together with females Digit and Gypsy.

I'm sure he'll breed with Gypsy, but Digit might be another matter- I think she was /is a very humanised female(similar to Asante at Twycross) and they may not take to each other.

 

[Willard]

Saint Martin la Plaine

Likalé is still a blackback and I'm curious to see him maturing when together with two females.

 

[SabineB]

for what it is worth, likalays first 'meeting' with digit seems to have been surprisingly positive as per st. martin la plaines facebook-entry

 

[Pertinax]

for what it is worth, likalays first 'meeting' with digit seems to have been surprisingly positive as per st. martin la plaines facebook-entry

Nice photos, but they are still seperated by mesh and Digit is obviously curious about this blackbacked stranger who evidently can't do her any harm(yet). How she will react when they are actually put together remains to be seen- she may quickly discover she hates him if he starts to try and show a natural sexual interest but because she's humanised, she rebuffs him. That's when sparks might fly. On the other hand, it might go fine....

I don't know how Digit has been kept since being an adult--what was the situation with Ginko? How did that work? That would probably give a clue.

 

[Willard]

Petition against the castration of gorillas

I've launched a petition against the castration of healthy gorillas in European zoos as a management tool, together with like-minded friends in The Netherlands and the US, and I'd like to ask you for your support. You'll find detailled information on the matter in the petition itself, where we explain why castration is a both dubious and unneccessary practice. If you are still in doubt or have questions, don't hesitate to ask me at willard@wolke7.net

And it would be great if you could forward the link to those of your friends who may be interested in signing the petition, too. As of today, we have 150 supporters, but every single vote counts!

The petition website: http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/eaza-eep-stop-castrating-gorillas

 

[Pertinax]

News from October 4, from the zoo management via a friend on Facebook: "Thank you for being interested on Vimoto`s condition. He is doing a bit better but still needs medical support. Hopefully he will be better within the next weeks. We have to be very patient."

Is there any update on 'Vimoto's condition? Is he still alive even?

 

[Taisha]

Is there any update on 'Vimoto's condition? Is he still alive even?

Vimoto is so well, he has been returned to his females.
They also know now what triggered the infection, so it should be easier to treat, if it should come back.

 

[Pertinax]

Thanks. Lucky 'Vimoto' Seems he came back from the brink then.