Lowland Gorillas in Europe 2014

[persimon]

Please don't shoot me for this question but here it goes surely if Gorillas are breeding well in captivity and their is a surplus of males in particular and I imagine there will get to a point of genetically linked females then would it not be responsible of zoos instead of castration attempt to re introduce some of these animals back into the wild which would in the long term help the wild population and diversify that gene pool

we have just seen that introducing gorillas could be a solution for a surplus . But no, there is no need for introductions. If populations are well protected, he can develop themselves. If they are not protected, introductions are irresponsable. Introductions would just cost a lot of money (if well done), has a high risk of introducing diseases and genetic polution (introducting animals that are genetically very different, e.g. subspecies or animals from another region) and will not safe the gorilla. But that is another discussion that has already been done her.

 

[dunstbunny]

In a German blog was mentioned along the way that the two boys from Munich were/are to be transferred to France.
Did I misinterprete the entry? Has anyone more informations?
It would make sense though, the older boy, Safiri, has the right age, and as the younger boy, Kajolu, will have to go later anyway, it's certainly better for him to go now together with a gorilla he knows.

 

[Pertinax]

If both subpopulations are healthy, and exchanges are possible without high levels of inbreeding, why the fuss? There is no risk for breeding two "subspecies" are there is no active selection, and both subpopulations have a huge numer of founders.

That is pretty much my take on it too- except they really need to be in a position to avoid any inbreeding at all. When the stage is reached when that isn't possible anymore, perhaps that is the time for some transatlantic exchanges to take place, but not before. I certainly would not ascribe any reluctance to 'ignorance'- I'm sure that isn't true.

 

[Pertinax]

would it not be responsible of zoos instead of castration attempt to re introduce some of these animals back into the wild which would in the long term help the wild population and diversify that gene pool

A large number of problems are involved, such as;

Possibility of spreading/bringing in diseases to wild Gorillas.
Zoo gorillas(including mother-raised ones) are not afraid of people.
Releases of zoo-born Gorillas still have a fairly high rate of failure/mortality.
Possibility of unnaturally skewing/upsetting the sex ratio balance of the wild population locally,- by adding more males.
Danger of increase in aggressive interactions/infanticides between extra single males and groups, the result of more males looking for partners.

 

[Pertinax]

Is there a reason that Shinda (Kibabu x Frala) at Prague does not breed even though I believe she is the dominant female? Contraceptives?

I believe this is the female that was previously contracepted and then absorbed the contraceptive implant into her body, rendering her infertile. Don't quote me on that though.

 

[Jabiru96]

In a German blog was mentioned along the way that the two boys from Munich were/are to be transferred to France.
Did I misinterprete the entry? Has anyone more informations?
It would make sense though, the older boy, Safiri, has the right age, and as the younger boy, Kajolu, will have to go later anyway, it's certainly better for him to go now together with a gorilla he knows.

The male at Munich is called Sadiki. Safiri is the name of one of the females at Duisburg (just to correct you).

 

[Nisha]

Zaire's 40th birthday has been marked at ZSL today
'Girlie' gorilla gorges on gourmet birthday cake at London Zoo

 

[Pertinax]

Zaire's 40th birthday has been marked at ZSL today
'Girlie' gorilla gorges on gourmet birthday cake at London Zoo

I don't think a birthday cake can make up for Zaire's long, rather sad, sometimes stressful and essentially unproductive life at London.

 

[dunstbunny]

The male at Munich is called Sadiki. Safiri is the name of one of the females at Duisburg (just to correct you).

ooops, thank you! (but it's likely to happen again, I tend to mix up names)

Anyhow, I found a second source mentioning the transfer. Seems it's right that Sadiki and Kajolu are going to Beauval.

 

[Jabiru96]

Nalani (b.2006 Buzandi x Melima) at Hannover has arrived at Bioparc Valencia. In addition, it appears that Tuana (b.2005 Buzandi x Zazie) at Stuttgart is pregnant.

 

[Pertinax]

Supposedly female Nalani (b.2006 Buzandi x Melima) at Hannover will be going to Bioparc Valencia.

She could have already gone. A comment on one of the specialist Gorilla sites by presumably someone at Hannover (a keeper?) said it would be their last day working with her, and that was several days ago.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Supposedly female Nalani (b.2006 Buzandi x Melima) at Hannover will be going to Bioparc Valencia. In addition, it appears that Tuana (b.2005 Buzandi x Zazie) at Stuttgart is pregnant.

Female Nalani has already arrived at Bioparc Valencia yesterday!

 

[Pertinax]

Anyhow, I found a second source mentioning the transfer. Seems it's right that Sadiki and Kajolu are going to Beauval.

Presumably they will try to integrate them with the existing three males in the Beauval bachelor group- silverback 'Yangu' + 10 & 8 year olds. Not sure how easy that will be.

 

[Willard]

Hannover

Not only Nalani had to go. Her half-brothers Kiburi (*2004) and Ubongo (*2008) will soon leave for Loro Parque in Tenerife.
Unterwegs in Sachen Familiengründung Aktuelle Nachricht Erlebnis-Zoo Hannover - Freizeit Hannover und Top-Attraktion Niedersachsen

 

[Pertinax]

Not only Nalani had to go. Her half-brothers Kiburi (*2004) and Ubongo (*2008) will soon leave for Loro Parque in Tenerife.

I imagine it would be very difficult- even impossible, to integrate these two younger males with the several adult silverbacks at Loro Parc. Maybe it is intended they are kept separately anyway? Valencia also have a small male group with animals- apart from Jitu- nearer in age(2002 & 2004) to these two, but possibly they are already too old to accept strangers being added to the group too.

 

[Willard]

EEP / SSP transfers

There is no risk for breeding two "subspecies" are there is no active selection, and both subpopulations have a huge number of founders.

Thanks to everyone who replied on that subject. Your arguments helped me to better understand the situation. One of my points was "why Australia et al, but not America" - but the keyword here is sustainable population, as someone pointed out.

When mentioning "two subspecies" I was being polemic. Of course I don't think that will ever happen.

Now I have one more question, or argument in favour of an exchange: Put the case that an individual X is "not happy" in its group and needs to change into a group Y with special characteristics / requirements in terms of social structure, e.g. a laid-back silverback, supportive females, a potential surrogate mother. A "specially tailored" group, so to speak, which isn't that easy to find. Now what if there is no such group in the EEP, but in the SSP there is (or vice versa)? That means bad luck for X, doesn't it? And the reasons would be logistic ones only - too much paperwork, too expensive etc.

So while there is no problem as far as genetic sustainability is concerned, there is a possible, deliberate restriction in options when it comes to the welfare of an individual. Just as an example: Would the EEP insist on castrating gorillas if America were "next door" and willing to take surplus males? Maybe yes as America might say, We've solved our surplus males issue, please solve yours yourself. But you know what I mean. It's a question of feeling committed to collaboration, or not. And I can't see that commitment, or its necessary preconditions, between the SSP and EEP.

Sorry for my musings

 

[persimon]

I think that if there was a case that a gorilla with "special needs" in Europe could not be placed, but it was known that there would be a good place for him/her in the US (or vice versa), then all would agree to send the animal. Of course there could be a debate on the costs, but that would be something between the sending/receiving zoos, and not the EEP or SSP.

 

[Pertinax]

I think that if there was a case that a gorilla with "special needs" in Europe could not be placed, but it was known that there would be a good place for him/her in the US (or vice versa), then all would agree to send the animal.

I feel its an unrealistic scenario and do not think they would ever do it since it would be too expensive and with no guarantee that the outcome for the animal would be as hoped. With so many groups in Europe nowadays they would surely be equally able to rehouse 'animal x' within another European group.

 

[Pertinax]

Maybe yes as America might say, We've solved our surplus males issue, please solve yours yourself. But you know what I mean. It's a question of feeling committed to collaboration, or not. And I can't see that commitment, or its necessary preconditions, between the SSP and EEP.

The SSP (Or US Zoos,or both) do claim to be managing their surplus male population successfully and without having to resort to castration. However, I am not sure how completely they have really 'solved' this issue and whether all surplus males in the US are now held in good situations(as far as any male groupings can be ideal) or how many of them are still actually held solitary/living offshow etc.

 

[Pertinax]

Death of 'Mike' at La Palmyre.

Silverback 'Mike' (Migger x Annette) born 1989 at La Palmyre, France, died there on 1st November. Heart-related death at age 25.

He was one of two silverback halfbrothers (the other is Nyuki) who lived there together longterm, both having been handraised. Neither was apparently deemed suitable to join other breeding groups owing to their desocialised and/or aggressive natures, but 'Nyuki' has since replaced the deceased 'Bongo' as their own group male, which left 'Mike' living alone.