Lynx re-introduction in the UK ?

I'd not be fussed over the sub-species Britan, in fact I wouldn't really want Scandinavian Lynx if I had the choice.

The Scandinavian population is reasonably secure in numbers but quite inbred. If it was up to me I'd introduce Iberian Lynx, which are also inbred but in serious trouble, or a subspecies with good genetic diversity.

A population in Britain would be completely isolated from ones on the mainland, so there would be no risk of polluting any gene pools.

Using either Iberians or a diverse subspecies would also help protect them from people opposed to the project.

Iberians would have legal protection and if they did get established then it would be hard to justify their removal. A diverse subspecies would have a better chance of making it on their own if the project gets halted at some point.

The only argument in favour of Lynx l. l. is that it was the subspecies here before, but that's pretty weak to me. The UK is an artificial environment already, and we're not going to be able to change that.

The Lynx will be feeding on rabbits from Iberia, deer from China, squirrels from the Americas, mongrel wild boar and "red deer" that are partly sika and wapiti. Why do they have the be the exact subspecies that "should" be here?
 
lamna said:
If it was up to me I'd introduce Iberian Lynx, which are also inbred but in serious trouble, or a subspecies with good genetic diversity.

A population in Britain would be completely isolated from ones on the mainland, so there would be no risk of polluting any gene pools.

Using either Iberians or a diverse subspecies would also help protect them from people opposed to the project.
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I'd love that ;) and considering the fact that one major factor inhibiting the recovery of the Iberian Lynx in their native range is the fact their natural prey, the European Rabbit, is (strange though it sounds) in serious decline throughout Spain, the massive population of this species within the UK would be manna from heaven for the lynx.
 
adrian1963 said:
most of the wild cats in the UK are escapee's from private collections or are from the few that were let out in the mid 70's when the dangerous animals act was brought in.

Lewis Foley who kept 2 lionesses had a friend who let 4 lynx free 2 male & 2 female in the Norfolk area
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This is the sort of "friend of a friend" story that fuels urban (or in this case country) myths.

In reality what happens is that when one digs down into the story it turns out that it's not a friend of Lewis Foley who supposedly let the Lynx free but a friend of Lewis Foley's friend. The kicker is that when Lewis Foley's friend is quizzed it's not their friend either but a friend of their friend -and so it goes on such that the supposed perpetrator is always out of reach and never nameable.
 
As the projects will require a DWA licence and previous attempts by Paul Lister owner of Alladale Estates were refused as well as being informed be required a zoo licence for his project, the likelihood of such reintroduction is still very far away. Also as the National Farmers Union, Ramblers Association, Land Owners Association and many others bodies including the RSPB are very opposed to any such rewilding projects. Those who make a living from the land are finding sea eagles, an introduced species which has huge success, to be a large problem and it has taken a good number of years for the official bodies to recognise this.


For some good research into lynx and prey, please read the following:


Lynx prey selection for age and sex classes of roe deer varies with season - Mejlgaard, Loe, Odden, Linnell & Nilsen

Norsk institutt for naturforskning > Startside


http://www.wildwoodtrust.org/…/reintroduction-large-carnivo…


www.catsg.org said:
The Iberian lynx Lynx pardinus, one the worlds most endangered cat species, is doing better. Not well, but better. There are now 309 lynx (85 breeding females) living in four populations compared to 94 (with only 27 breeding females) in two populations in 2002. And the four conservation breeding centres in Spain and Portugal now host a total of 77 mature individuals. The first Iberian lynx was born in captivity only 2005. Experiences in the Guadalmellato and Guarrizas study areas have demonstrated that both, wild-to-wild translocation and the release of captive born lynx are appropriate methods for bringing the Iberian lynx back to where it once roamed. And suddenly, problem No. One is no longer the lince, but the conejo, the common rabbit Oryctolagus cuniculus, the lynx most important prey species. The frantic search for the rabbit has been launched. We have enough lynx to be released and we know how to reintroduce them but where are the rabbits that can support at least a small lynx population?


The meeting of all partners of the IberLince Life Project in Moura, Portugal, on 2021 May 2013 was dedicated to this question. The project teams from Portugal and from the Spanish provinces of Andalucía, Extremadura and Castilla la Mancha presented their ideas for suitable release areas. The criteria to select an area were (1) habitat quality (dens cover habitat, e.g. Mediterranean hard shrub), (2) size of the habitat patch (at least 10,000 ha or space for 50 lynx), (3) sufficient prey base (spring density of ≥2 rabbits/ha), and (4) connectivity to neighbouring potential lynx subpopulation with a distance of maximum 42 km. This last criterion aimed to secure that animals dispersing from a new nucleus would not be lost, but would have a certain chance to find another population. The first phase of the recovery strategy foresees to create a metapopulation along the Sierra Morena from the remnant population near Andújar towards Portugal in the west. However, it soon turned out that not many release area would meet all criteria and that the idea to create a chain of pearls along the Sierra Morena simply lacks sufficient spots with high rabbit densities. Hence the strategy or at least the priorities for the next years needs to be adapted to the availability of rabbits. All sites with decent rabbit populations within the project area in the southern half of the Iberian Peninsula will now be assessed for their potential to host a small lynx population. Most of the seven sites favoured so far are still within or adjacent to the Sierra Morena, but there was a consensus at the meeting to also consider release sites in Monfragüe (northern Extremadura) and in the Montes de Toledo (northern Castilla La Mancha).


Isnt it ironic: The rabbit, introduced to many areas across the world, often with devastating consequences for the local biodiversity, domesticated and bred by the millions to feed people, is a major conservation problem at its place of origin, the Iberian Peninsula. There are two subspecies, the northern O. c. cuniculus (the one that was domesticated and known world-wide as a pest species), and the southern O. c. algirus. This southern subspecies is more threatened (with an estimated decline of 95% in the second half of the 20th century), suffers more from diseases like Myxomatosis or Rabbit Haemorrhagic Disease and is the main food not only for the Iberian lynx but also for other threatened species such as the Spanish imperial eagle Aquila adalberti.


Although the research on rabbits and their diseases have considerably increased in recent years, we know relatively little about this keystone species. The population decline is estimated from studies in a few areas, the dynamics of the populations and the epizootics are not understood, and for many areas with suitable habitat for lynx, but no rabbits, we do not know why and for how long the rabbits are gone if they ever were there. The rabbit was for a long time simply not a species worth to be considered, leave alone studied.

Prey decline is known to be a major threat to the survival of large cats. Shortage of prey is most often the underlying reason for the collapse of cats depending on ungulate prey. Even Panthera species can stand a rather strong persecution as long as there is sufficient prey. Exceptions from this rule one is e.g. mentioned on page 18 of this issue concern most often small and isolated, hence highly vulnerable populations. The Iberian lynx seems to be a special case among the medium-sized cats. We generally assume that prey supply is sufficient for the lesser cat that hunt small or medium-sized prey, rodents, birds, or lagomorphs. But how much do we really know about the feeding ecology and about the availability of prey of the small and medium-sized cats? Clearly not enough to be reassuring!
(IUCN/SCC)
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"Reintroduce lynx? Fine, but we must control the apex predator
There's more to reintroducing wildlife than just releasing a few lynx."
THECONVERSATION.COM|BY NIKI RUST
 
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A dead lynx found, to a lynx found in a freezer, to the odd escapee does not prove that the UK mainland has wild and breeding "big cats". The subject matter of "UK Big Cats" and cryptozoology has been covered before on this forum. However:

Dr Graham Law, Dr Luke Hunter, Dr Alan Rabinowitz, Dr Andrew Kitchener, Prof Robbie McDonald, Dr Nick Royle et al are all respected within their field of study and have contributed to the debunking of the UK myth of “big cats”. It is fair to say that the UK mainland does not have any known wild and free living populations of any large or medium sized exotic cat, let alone any breeding. It is agreeable that there are noticeable trends within the UK where people do keep fancy breeds and some are of the F3 range of small exotic cats. People will have seen these about and have made misidentification just as people are said to be seeing large “black”, “sandy” coloured cats which in truth are nothing but conjecture, heresy, anecdotal and baseless, especially when the most common colour of a dog is black followed by fawn or sandy colour.

Natural England, the government’s advisory body on the natural environment, said it “occasionally” received reports from members of the public of alleged big cats.

A spokeswoman said: “None of the sightings of big cats have ever been confirmed and the evidence of all the sightings we have been asked to look at has either been unsubstantiated or has been attributed to other causes.

“From time to time big cats do escape from zoos or other collections and are usually recaptured very quickly. We are confident that there is no breeding population of big cats in this country.”

As I have said many times before and I shall say it again:

Given that Africa is the world’s second largest and second most populated continent at around 32 million sq km and, that the UKGB is a mere 244 thousand sq km. Given the Africa has a greater number of known wild feline species as compared to the two known of the UKGB. It is normal that within Africa as well as other large areas of the world that you would expect to see, find, track and film in some capacity such wild exotic felines. However, within the UKGB that is a different matter. First of all, there are no known wild, free-range and breeding populations of wild exotic cats. Such exotic animals can be found with in animal collections (zoos and parks etc.). The UKGB only has domestic cats and the wild cat of Scotland which as we all know has been diminished by the hybridisation from the domestic cat. The known numbers of true pure DNA wild cats of Scotland are unknown but some say that it can range roam 35 to 450.

Within the UKGB many people make claims that they have seen, witnessed, encountered or have been attacked by such exotic “big cats” that it has become laughable. So called “experts” and “researchers” have crawled out of the woodwork and all claim that the UKGB have such “big cats”. But these stories are not "sightings". They are "claims" and need to be treated with extreme scepticism. And if there were what the zoologists call "big cats" out there in Scotland or elsewhere in Britain, several things would need to be the case.

You would have to account for the way they have successfully evaded any and all attempts to either capture them or photograph them or otherwise confirm their presence in a reliable way, given that hunters, scientists and others have no trouble tracking down and studying big cats in every other part of the world where they are known to exist, hence why I mentioned at the start as to the size of Africa.

You would have to explain why this has all happened over several decades in one of the developed world's most densely populated little islands. Big cats regularly have fully-verified encounters with the human population in countries where there are much larger uninhabited areas (such as Africa) in which they can hide than you'd find anywhere in Britain. It is, therefore, curious that our "big cats" have failed to do so in our much more overcrowded environment.

Where are the bodies of the dead ones? Do none of these "big cats" ever die in places where their carcasses can be found by human beings? Do none of them ever get hit by cars and end up as road-kill, like everything else that lives in these islands? Are we supposed to believe they re-generate or are immortal? Indeed, there has been some evidence to show that one cat was ran over, one was kept in a freezer and there has been the odd escapee, but in truth this does not mean or even go to prove that the UK has any such "big cats" roaming about and breeding.

Now we all know that there have been some escapees from time to time, with some being hit by a car with others caught. However, there has been not one such animal that has ever been found to be classed as free-living/feral or otherwise and breeding, let alone classed as being wild. We also agree that there is certain hybrid of small F3 plus cats out there which can be bought for large sums of monies, but these are not what we are on about here. Sadly though, we have a greater population of fantasy players and idiots who have this belief in mythical creatures that do not exist. Camera traps and the like will not help prove the existence simply because there are no such mythical "big cats" roaming wild in the mainland UK and, these trip cams are set in the wrong places.

Given the lifespan in the wild of such exotic felines and, it will require both sex to mate and produce, then take into geography as well as the probability of one sex being of cycle and then meeting another opposite sex of the same genus. Sorry Do the math. Even from the 1976 Act, the 1982 and 1984 Act, given that felids cannot live beyond their own species longevity coupled with natural and un-natural mortality. It is both foolish and misguided to even suggest that any such “sighting” is because of these Acts of law. These so called “experts and researchers” then go onto say that such creatures were released due to such Acts of law, again this is foolish and holds no credulity. During the days when regulation was flimsy, many people did own many species of various exotic animals, not just “big cats”. We know such animals from the mink to the various deer species, from wallabies to parrots, from reptiles to fish and insects, were indeed released and or found within parts of the UKGB. However, the matter regarding such “big cats” and the continued spate of so-called “sightings” has nothing whatsoever to do with releases and breeding, that is myth making.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but the UK mainland does not have any free-living, wild, breeding or natural known "big cats" and the sightings, well, they are just that, just people wanting to believe in something which is not really there.
 
Good to hear that lynxes are being reintroduced to Britain. This is a very important reintroduction.
 
lowland anoa said:
Good to hear that lynxes are being reintroduced to Britain. This is a very important reintroduction.
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They are NOT reintroducing lynx into or onto the private estates/landowners within Scotland and England. The report states that they are still looking into it all and is dependent on obtaining licences (DWA)
 
The report mentions "Grumack Forest, one of the potential release sites" and "If the licence applications are successful". Reintroduction has not taken place as of yet and still requires a long period of licence applications, legal work and complying with various balances and checks adhered to by local, central and European legislative policies and agreement from various bodies.
 
Whilst I think it is a wonderful idea and dream to have lynx roaming free again in the UK (or in a private estate) I am skeptical as to whether it will ever be more than a dream.

Having seen the hoops you have to jump through to obtain a DWA licence, including completely ensuring there is no risk to the general public, I doubt a licence will be granted on the basis they are free roaming.

I wonder what sort of legal problems would arise against the licence holder should the lynx attack a person, as if a DWA licence is required for this project to go ahead then I can't see how they would ever be truly wild animals as they would always be deemed to have an 'owner' (using the term loosely) with this person being the licence holder.
 
"Call for landowners to host wild lynx in Wales" BBC News - Call for landowners to host wild lynx in Wales mentions "Lynx hunt in forests and there has never been a recorded attack on humans." Personally I feel Dr Paul O'Donoghue, from the Lynx UK Trust, is living in a bubble and has very little idea of real practical experience of such felids. Dr Paul O'Donoghue said "its reintroduction could help promote biodiversity." A biscuit tin belief and one that is shallow. Sure there are numerous attacks of lynx on humans, many are from captive held and most of those are within the USA: Woman describes screams of friend attacked by lynx in Buckhead | www.ajc.com as an example. A good research paper Conflicts between lynx, other large carnivores, and humans in Macedonia and Albania gives a fair account of risks . There are many possible and potential legal problems and risks for such a project to come across, unlike the Argyll Beaver Trial, lynx are of course a different taxon and have a huge number of complex risks that outweigh the advantages. Far too many say that we must reintroduce what we used to have, however, we are losing more flora and fauna, environments and habitats now than ever before. Would it not be better sense to sort the loss first rather than bring something back that has not been around for greater than a millennia? What existed back then as in ecosystem, habitat and people does not exist now, the UK that we have now is manipulated by man and machine. The deer population if that is why such people want to bring back lynx for is a non-starter: Only mass deer cull can prevent destruction of British woodlands and wildife, say scientists - Nature - Environment - The Independent https://www.academia.edu/345817/Con...arnivores_and_humans_in_Macedonia_and_Albania
 
@bigcatspeciali, can you please sort out your posts #24 and #25 on the previous page. I cannot tell which are your words and which you have cut-and-pasted from other sites, and the links do not work so I cannot check to fix them accurately.
 
Chlidonias said:
@bigcatspeciali, can you please sort out your posts #24 and #25 on the previous page. I cannot tell which are your words and which you have cut-and-pasted from other sites, and the links do not work so I cannot check to fix them accurately.
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I've fixed post #24, which is almost entirely quotations from other internet sources - post #25 is all his own words, albeit copied and pasted from about three or four locations online where he has posted on the topic of ABC's in the past.

I'm fixing other posts now to improve their legibility.
 
Let's hope Ukip doesn't get in after saying this in BBC Wildlife magazine about reintroducing species like wolves and lynx:
'Definitely not! This is a completely irresponsible project. Large numbers of British livestock- not to mention unwary humans- would be easy prey and there is simply not room on our crowded island to entertain this madcap idea.'

It sounds like there talking about beaten, starving tigers in a pit with sheep and humans! Not introducing Lynx which commonly only prey on hares and rabbits.
 
lamna said:
I'd not be fussed over the sub-species Britan, in fact I wouldn't really want Scandinavian Lynx if I had the choice.

The Scandinavian population is reasonably secure in numbers but quite inbred. If it was up to me I'd introduce Iberian Lynx, which are also inbred but in serious trouble, or a subspecies with good genetic diversity.

A population in Britain would be completely isolated from ones on the mainland, so there would be no risk of polluting any gene pools.

Using either Iberians or a diverse subspecies would also help protect them from people opposed to the project.

Iberians would have legal protection and if they did get established then it would be hard to justify their removal. A diverse subspecies would have a better chance of making it on their own if the project gets halted at some point.

The only argument in favour of Lynx l. l. is that it was the subspecies here before, but that's pretty weak to me. The UK is an artificial environment already, and we're not going to be able to change that.

The Lynx will be feeding on rabbits from Iberia, deer from China, squirrels from the Americas, mongrel wild boar and "red deer" that are partly sika and wapiti. Why do they have the be the exact subspecies that "should" be here?
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I agree wholeheartedly, although I'm not sure the Iberian Lynx would be an effective predetor of even Munjact, let alone Roe Deer or Fallow, but from a conservation as a global-anthropecene effort, Britain could be an Ark for preserving the Iberian Lynx as a wild secure species.

Some of your arguments, genetic isolation, original "native" species long extinct...etc are the ones I use to advocate that Britain should be considered as an island refuge for the American Red Wolf if the United Kingdom ever reintroduces Wolves, rather than bringing in European Wolves 8,000 years removed genetically from Britain's (300 years extinct) "native" population.

Here's hoping we can be bold in our future conservation efforts.
 
Macaw16 said:
Let's hope Ukip doesn't get in after saying this in BBC Wildlife magazine about reintroducing species like wolves and lynx:
'Definitely not! This is a completely irresponsible project. Large numbers of British livestock- not to mention unwary humans- would be easy prey and there is simply not room on our crowded island to entertain this madcap idea.'

It sounds like there talking about beaten, starving tigers in a pit with sheep and humans! Not introducing Lynx which commonly only prey on hares and rabbits.
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Bloody lynx, coming over there, taking our jobs, not learning English, just going on benefits. Get a job!
 
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