Male Gorilla psychology

[The Hedgehog]

(Moderator note: digression moved from this page - Port Lympne Wild Animal Park news 2020 [Port Lympne Wild Animal Park])

Do you know if the gorilla groups are mainly contracepted nowadays? I can remember the days when females in each group were all having babies at regular intervals, these days births are far rarer there.

Pertinax as far as I know the female Gorillas within the European continent are not on contraception. In London’s instance I think the lack of breeding is down to Gorilla Kingdom being more dramatic and eventful than Coronation Street. As your probably aware London has had five Silverbacks within the last two decades.

1. Jock moved to Bristol during 2003. Jock didn’t produce any progeny with the female that resided in the capital at the time. Jock has since fatherd four Offspring and has become a grandad to a further three surviving grandchildren.

2. Jock’s successor Bobby (Bongo Jr) who moved from London died in 2008 due to a sudden heart attack in one of the outdoor dens. He had deformed legs and was wild born.

3. Bobby’s replacement Yebboah who arrived from a bachelor group in France. Yebboah tragically passed away under aneaseptic while being treated for Diabetes. While at London Zoo Yebboah and Majukku copulated and parented Tiny the baby Gorilla who was tragically murderd by the then new infertile Silverback Kesho.

4. Kesho who was born to Harry and Lena at Dublin. Kesho arrived in 2012. He was Yabboughs successor. Kescho was the infertile Silverback that murdered Tiny the 8 month old first born offspring of Majkuu and the only posthoumous offspring of the late Gorilla Yebboah.

The last Silverback was Kumbuka who was relocated due to being aggressive in his bachelor group at Paington Zoo. Kumbuka was born at Belfast Zoo to Kamilli the daughter of the now diseased long term London Zoo resident Zaira. Sadly Kumbuka was euthanized due to a widespread serious infection. Kumbuka leaves behind his daughter Alika and son Gernot.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

Pertinax as far as I know the female Gorillas within the European continent are not on contraception. In London’s instance I think the lack of breeding is down to Gorilla Kingdom being more dramatic and eventful than Coronation Street. As your probably aware London has had five Silverbacks within the last two decades.

.....

The last Silverback was Kumbuka who was relocated due to being aggressive in his bachelor group at Paington Zoo. Kumbuka was born at Belfast Zoo to Kamilli the daughter of the now diseased long term London Zoo resident Zaira. Sadly Kumbuka was euthanized due to a widespread serious infection. Kumbuka leaves behind his daughter Alika and son Gernot.

I would concur his aggression at PZ was exactly the reason why Kumbuka of all silverbacks would be the best candidate as a group leader for a family group. It would probably should have happened much sooner than it did.

BTW: ZSL's record for handling of gorilla group compatibility, animal health and breeding fitness have surely not been the best to date. What I do fail to get my head around is why silverbacks are not routinely monitored for social suitability and breeding fitness prior to a move to an intended breeding location. Think of that what you will?!?

Perhaps Pertinax feels like commenting more sensibly.

 

[ShonenJake13]

Pertinax as far as I know the female Gorillas within the European continent are not on contraception.

He wasn’t asking about every gorilla in Europe....there are a lot of females out there that are non-breeding/on contraceptive.

 

[Panthera1981]

4. Kesho who was born to Harry and Lena at Dublin. Kesho arrived in 2012. He was Yabboughs successor. Kescho was the infertile Silverback that murdered Tiny the 8 month old first born offspring of Majkuu and the only posthoumous offspring of the late Gorilla Yebboah.

Let’s not make Kesho out to be some Shakespearean villain here - he did not “murder” the infant. The way you make it sound is that there was premeditated intent involved. There wasn’t. Kesho suffers from Klinefelters Syndrome which, among other things, means he cannot regulate his play. Unfortunately the infant was in the way whilst he was initiating play with Mjukuu.

There’s an excellent piece on how Kesho’s condition has evolved on a recent episode of Animal Park. I’d be interested to see whether either the keepers at London or Longleat agree with your character assassination.

 

[The Hedgehog]

I would concur his aggression at PZ was exactly the reason why Kumbuka of all silverbacks would be the best candidate as a group leader for a family group. It would probably should have happened much sooner than it did.

Kifaru Bwana Kumbuka was an incredibly aggressive Gorilla. I read on many sources that London Zoo put stickers on the window and wooden barriers up around Gorilla Kingdom. Paington Zoo also painted a picture on the window of their Gorilla house due to Kumbuka and his aggressive tendencies. However I must admit it is sad that Zaire and her grandson Kumbuka have passed away within the same year as London Zoo had the beginnings of a bonded family group of Gorillas for the first time.

 

[ShonenJake13]

Immediately after you’re called out for making a character assassination of one silverback you make another. Kumbuka was a young male who was protective of his family, but he was by no means an ‘aggressive animal’. Stop claiming that your suspicions are fact....!

beginnings.....? From the moment Alika was born six years ago it was a bonded family...

 

[Zia]

Having observed other visitors staring at him and banging on the glass and screeching and so on (yes - I did tell them to pack it in) I always got the impression that Kumbuka found his environment at London claustrophobic and I can't say I blamed him. I don't believe he was 'incredibly aggressive' at all. Dominant and protective... and a touch feisty. Not bad traits in a group leader.

 

[Pertinax]

1. Kumbuka had been living alone for some years at Paignton, as being intermediate in age, he did not fit with their group dynamic of one silverback(Pertinax) and several much younger animals (the current male group) So he was available and something of a problem/surplus animal for Paignton when London needed a replacement male.

2. I was told by a ZSL Apekeeper that Kesho did in fact deliberately attack Mjukuu's baby, though he injured him rather than killed him- Tiny died later after removal to the animal hospital.I don't think the attack was in anyway related to his Klinefelter's condition, but it was reason he was replaced at ZSL as he would not have bred.

 

[Gigit]

Kifaru Bwana Kumbuka was an incredibly aggressive Gorilla. I read on many sources that London Zoo put stickers on the window and wooden barriers up around Gorilla Kingdom. Paington Zoo also painted a picture on the window of their Gorilla house due to Kumbuka and his aggressive tendencies.

I must object to this slur on Kumbuka's character. I knew him at Paignton from his arrival in 2007. The window of the showden was partly covered to protect the gorillas from badly behaved visitors. Kumbuka in particular got wound up by noise and banging on the glass and when he was separated from the others he spent most of his time outside or off show. He reacted to noisy visitors even when he was outside, which to my mind showed sensitivity rather than aggression. This behaviour continued at ZSL which, as Zia points out, is claustrophobic. He was a handsome and impressive gorilla and turned out to be a fine father despite a somewhat imperfect childhood.

 

[The Hedgehog]

@Gigit I thought that Kumbuka's spiteful behaviour towards his housemates at Paington Zoo was part of the reason he ended up at London Zoo in the first place. I must admit that every cloud has a silver lining and in this instance the silver lining of Kumbukas aggressiveness\fiery temper was the birth of both Alika and Gernot!

 

[ShonenJake13]

@Gigit I thought that Kumbuka's spiteful behaviour towards his housemates at Paington Zoo was part of the reason he ended up at London Zoo in the first place. I must admit that every cloud has a silver lining and in this instance the silver lining of Kumbukas aggressiveness\fiery temper was the birth of both Alika and Gernot!

The reason Kumbuka ended up at London was for the exact same reason Matadi originally ended up at Howletts - he was young, had fully matured, didn’t fit in the group at Paignton anymore, and his genetics matched a group who at the time were in need of a breeding male.

You keep bringing up this ‘aggressiveness‘ - and we keep telling you it’s not the case! Almost every young silverback behaves like Kumbuka - especially if they’re in an enclosure the same size as London’s!

 

[Nisha]

@The Hedgehog - Sometime's it's better not to comment on things you clearly don't have experience of (such as Gorilla social situations and individual personality's) your just making yourself look silly!

 

[The Hedgehog]

@Nisha everyone is fighting Kumbuka's corner and saying it's common for male gorillas to act descriptive\ aggressively. In my opinion this behaviour is not common for male gorillas. For instance Pertinax,N'Dowe,Kivu and Kiondo the bachelor gorillas at Paington Zoo don't act disruptive or agitated. Another example of a male Silverback Gorilla who dose not act in the manor that Kumbuka did is Jock the Silverback Gorilla who resides at Bristol Zoo.

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

1. Kumbuka had been living alone for some years at Paignton, as being intermediate in age, he did not fit with their group dynamic of one silverback(Pertinax) and several much younger animals (the current male group) So he was available and something of a problem/surplus animal for Paignton when London needed a replacement male.

I had been hoping you would wish to comment on his suitability as a breeding silverback instead. To my mind, the PZ assessment was merely being an outlier locally with the issue that another adult silverback was in the other group already and his integration was mission impossible from the outset.

PS: Whereas bachelor groups are commonly used as a tool of management in a captive setting, hence it is sort of an artificial ado. In the natural world this situation would never come to pass with silverback behaviour and territoriality and social mechanisms preventing any such constellation to exist.

 

[zoogiraffe]

@Nisha everyone is fighting Kumbuka's corner and saying it's common for male gorillas to act descriptive\ aggressively. In my opinion this behaviour is not common for male gorillas. For instance Pertinax,N'Dowe,Kivu and Kiondo the bachelor gorillas at Paington Zoo don't act disruptive or agitated. Another example of a male Silverback Gorilla who dose not act in the manor that Kumbuka did is Jock the Silverback Gorilla who resides at Bristol Zoo.

I don't have what seems to be a vast knowledge of gorillas, but from what I am seeing you are the only person making these claims. While everyone else is saying the opposite to you, makes me think that you are barking up the wrong tree and you actually have no idea as I do know that the others commenting do know there gorillas, so I am more inclined to believe what they are saying than you. But if you insist on trying to keep digging a deeper hole for yourself, I recommend you use a JCB as you will find the digging a lot easier!

 

[Gigit]

@Gigit I thought that Kumbuka's spiteful behaviour towards his housemates at Paington Zoo was part of the reason he ended up at London Zoo in the first place. I must admit that every cloud has a silver lining and in this instance the silver lining of Kumbukas aggressiveness\fiery temper was the birth of both Alika and Gernot!

'Spiteful'?? Where has this come from? I won't comment further.

 

[ShonenJake13]

@Nisha everyone is fighting Kumbuka's corner and saying it's common for male gorillas to act descriptive\ aggressively. In my opinion this behaviour is not common for male gorillas. For instance Pertinax,N'Dowe,Kivu and Kiondo the bachelor gorillas at Paington Zoo don't act disruptive or agitated. Another example of a male Silverback Gorilla who dose not act in the manor that Kumbuka did is Jock the Silverback Gorilla who resides at Bristol Zoo.

Kiondo, Kivu and N’Dowe aren’t disruptive at all.......????? Pertinax must have wanted to be separated from them permanently because he wanted some alone time to do his gardening then....!

The three Paignton boys are bonded. They all had the fortune of growing up in the same zoo together as brothers, so they have known each other their whole lives. The reason that they are so ‘calm’ together (which to be honest is definitely not always the case, I’ve seen them displaying at each other) is because of this. The reason Pertinax ended up having to be separated is because the boys kept on targeting him because he was getting older/his health issues were worsening, and because he was an outsider to their relationship.

Jock is MUCH older than Kumbuka was when he moved to London. When he was younger and was living at London (and yes, I do remember his time there), one of my clearest memories of him is him thumping the window because people kept on getting ‘too close’. He was a young silverback at the time, so I’m not at all surprised. He is so relaxed now, because he’s far older and has no threats to worry about.

The gorillas you are specifically referring to are in different situations to Kumbuka. A band of brothers, and a calm and composed parent-reared silverback. Kumbuka was a young male, and hand-reared to boot which would have led to a whole host of other issues. Not to mention (shock horror) the longer he lived there, and especially as the kids began to grow up, and so the more bonded he became to his family, the less he banged on the glass!!!!

If you’re going to start making wild claims about gorillas as if you know them personally without looking at the actual individual situations, then you’re going to lose credibility very fast. Pertinax and I both know our gorillas, from breeding history to husbandry, though neither of us claim to know everything. Zia and Kifaru both make excellent points about what is needed from a gorilla leader; calm and collected, but ready to discipline or protect at a moment’s notice. Gigit also knows her ape stuff and has frequently observed Kumbuka at Paignton as she is a regular in the ape house there, so she knows more than a thing or two about them. Panthera1981 regularly gives updates about ZSL so is clearly a regular visitor (maybe not as much as they used to be....), and Zia mentions her observations of Kumbuka’s behaviour from personal observations.
The fact is that some people may see this post as overreacting/aggressive, and if that is the case then I can only apologise (this whole interaction will probably get deleted or moved to a different thread anyway ) but when five or six people with more than enough credible reasoning jump in and explain to you why your reasoning isn’t likely to be the case, I’d listen...

 

[Crowthorne]

Just going to jump in here and back up what everyone else is saying about Kumbuka. I visit London regularly (when possible!), and always seek out some time with the gorillas. When Kumbuka was still new at London, yes he would bang the glass and display, but no more than any other male, newly arrived with a new family and situation, and more than a little put out by the closeness of the public at London. When Alika was born, he was initially very protective, as would be expected with any new dad. Once he settled in, the stand off barriers and camouflage decals added to the glass viewing, and especially once his offspring started to get bigger, he really calmed down and became very chilled. Even the noisy public didn't really seem to bother him any more.

I admit I don't know gorillas as much as some members on here, but I would never have described Kumbuka as aggressive.

 

[Pertinax]

Jock is MUCH older than Kumbuka was when he moved to London. When he was younger and was living at London (and yes, I do remember his time there), one of my clearest memories of him is him thumping the window because people kept on getting ‘too close’. He was a young silverback at the time, so I’m not at all surprised. He is so relaxed now, because he’s far older and has no threats to worry about.

Worth remembering Jock was actually(genuinely) pretty aggressive to other gorillas when he first arrived at London, they had to seperate the two Czech females from him and he could latterly only be kept with Zaire. It was one reason they exchanged males with Bristol where his introduction proved far more tricky than his predecessors Bobby or Klaus, and they had to employ sedatives for him initially. That's a long time in the past and of course as you said, he's much older now and completely settled with his family. With Kumbuka I don't think they experienced the problems they had with the 'younger' Jock when he came to London.

 

[Pertinax]

I had been hoping you would wish to comment on his suitability as a breeding silverback instead. To my mind, the PZ assessment was merely being an outlier locally with the issue that another adult silverback was in the other group already and his integration was mission impossible from the outset.

I think Kumbuka was perfectly suitable as a group silverback and he proved that. At Paignton his 'in-between' age had meant he had been isolated from the others for some time (or even not tried with them at all) and so, living on his own, he related to the public more, as Gigit has described. I think any accusation of being 'aggressive' is related to the fact that he had learnt to interact with the public a lot and with the new surroundings at London that behaviour continued further with the shortcomings of the house design. He certainly wasn't aggressive to the other gorillas afaik, and as the years passed, he became calmer. I'm only sorry that his tenure wasn't far longer- he turned out to be yet another example of ZSL's repeated bad luck with this species over the years.