Marwell Wildlife Marwell news 2012

[pipaluk]

This year Marwell is celebrating it's 40th anniversary. the website is a mine of shallow information, so I can't ascertain whether anything is actually happening to mark this event, beyond a rather nasty-looking mosaic consisting of children's pictures of animals being "unveiled". Is there an exhibition or even a publication of some sort? I fear there won't be, but I'd be interested to learn if there is.

I have (rightly) been picked up by a Zoochatter for having a bit of a downer on Marwell, but I can't help but feel that, as has been said above, it really is stagnating. I'd be interested to hear the counter-argument - that since the current director took over (I'm guessing about five years ago) the zoo has been moving in a healthy direction, and getting better. I see a nice new logo (I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically), some very half-hearted new exhibits, a lot of shabbiness, and lots of problems unresolved. And a very nice cafe (which is far, far too small). Do others see it differently?

As a fairly frequent visitor (usually 2-4 times year) I would agree that it is stagnating a little, with hardly any new mammals or exhibits in the last 5 years (brazilian tapirs & meerkats aside!). I do feel its worth considerably more than a two hour visit, probably at least 5. It still has some pretty rare(in UK), hoofstock: sable, both gazelle, takin to name few, best uk okapi facilities by a mile,reasonable cat collection. Pretty poor on primates, yes, apart from lemurs or tamarins. Although I wouldn't say its moving in a healthy direction I don't think its collapsing-just yet

 

[Javan Rhino]

I visited Marwell very soon after it opened. I remember being excited by the herds of Grevy's zebras and scimitar horned oryx, and I am delighted that they are still flourishing. Likewise the nyala, sable, roan and ellipsen waterbuck. They also had some unusual species like goral (hybrids I think) for which the current equivalents are the takin. Likewise they have always had a nice collection of cats and their records with Przewalski horses and okapi are splendid.
My criticism would be that the other species seem fairly incidental alongside the cats and ungulates: just a few birds, some lemurs, marmosets and monkeys (and the siamangs), a few reptiles and a few small carnivores. Unfortunately even the nicest species can be very hard to see, it's quite possible to find the snow leopards lying doggo, the lemurs and fossas asleep, the ocelots and sand cats invisible and the okapi in their stalls. On my last visit, the Australian walkthrough - a few wallabies and an aviary with kookaburras - was just boring. The Somali wild asses never disappoint me, but I suppose many visitors just see them as donkeys.
I agree that some of the buildings need attention. A lick of paint would help some, but a few need to go - particularly the bat shack.
I think that the entrance area and the 'Australian' area need spicing up with alternative species, preferably active ones, and more imaginative displays. How about Himalayan black bears in the woods behind the shop? Or European bison if a simpler enclosure is needed. If that is too ambitious at least add a few more small mammals, perhaps bushdogs or tree porcupines. Then move the kookaburras and net the whole Australian walkthrough, dig a pool and add some smaller parakeets, perhaps Bourkes and barrabands, with diamond sparrows, wandering whistling ducks and magpie geese (preferably full-winged).

Alan

That seems fair - quite correct about the Australian walkthrough, though not one UK Australia exhibit [walkthrough or otherwise] impresses me so I can't particularly use it as a criticism. I just don't think there are enough Australian species readily available to make them any different from one another, which is fine for the general visitor but does get very repetative.

Every zoo should offer something different, and I'd love to see a zoo offer a completely unique-to-the-UK Australian area.

 

[pipaluk]

I visited Marwell very soon after it opened. I remember being excited by the herds of Grevy's zebras and scimitar horned oryx, and I am delighted that they are still flourishing. Likewise the nyala, sable, roan and ellipsen waterbuck. They also had some unusual species like goral (hybrids I think) for which the current equivalents are the takin. Likewise they have always had a nice collection of cats and their records with Przewalski horses and okapi are splendid.
My criticism would be that the other species seem fairly incidental alongside the cats and ungulates: just a few birds, some lemurs, marmosets and monkeys (and the siamangs), a few reptiles and a few small carnivores. Unfortunately even the nicest species can be very hard to see, it's quite possible to find the snow leopards lying doggo, the lemurs and fossas asleep, the ocelots and sand cats invisible and the okapi in their stalls. On my last visit, the Australian walkthrough - a few wallabies and an aviary with kookaburras - was just boring. The Somali wild asses never disappoint me, but I suppose many visitors just see them as donkeys.
I agree that some of the buildings need attention. A lick of paint would help some, but a few need to go - particularly the bat shack.
I think that the entrance area and the 'Australian' area need spicing up with alternative species, preferably active ones, and more imaginative displays. How about Himalayan black bears in the woods behind the shop? Or European bison if a simpler enclosure is needed. If that is too ambitious at least add a few more small mammals, perhaps bushdogs or tree porcupines. Then move the kookaburras and net the whole Australian walkthrough, dig a pool and add some smaller parakeets, perhaps Bourkes and barrabands, with diamond sparrows, wandering whistling ducks and magpie geese (preferably full-winged).

Alan

This crossed with my post, but I agree with much of it, I loved Marwell when I first visited in the 70s, it had so many rarities then. It IS a big zoo, but so many areas are under used like the woods by the entrance stretching for most of that side of the park. Bears would be a welcome addition or bison returning. The African Valley is also a massive waste of space too, given that it mainly just contains species exhibited elsewhere in the park!

 

[Javan Rhino]

The African Valley is also a massive waste of space too, given that it mainly just contains species exhibited elsewhere in the park!

I thought the African Valley was one of the nicest parts, but felt that there could have been more in it. I personally would have liked to see common hippo in the lake at the bottom, but aggression could be a problem unless they separate the lake somehow, which depending how it's done could ruin the nice look of the exhibit.

Maybe wildebeest and/or the white rhino could be added, but as I recall the land was sloped so don't know if that would work.

 

[pipaluk]

I thought the African Valley was one of the nicest parts, but felt that there could have been more in it. I personally would have liked to see common hippo in the lake at the bottom, but aggression could be a problem unless they separate the lake somehow, which depending how it's done could ruin the nice look of the exhibit.

Maybe wildebeest and/or the white rhino could be added, but as I recall the land was sloped so don't know if that would work.

I agree its a nice exhibit, just think the zoo needs to use the space it has available to add a few more species, hippo would be a good addition, if not in the valley,then maybe if rhino were added there then their area could have been adapted for hippo or another rhino species put there.

 

[sooty mangabey]

As always, a very thoughtful post, containing a great deal of good sense.

I visited Marwell very soon after it opened. I remember being excited by the herds of Grevy's zebras and scimitar horned oryx, and I am delighted that they are still flourishing.

Without wanting to put words into your mouth, this feels like an articulation of the feeling that Marwell has somehow betrayed its roots. It was, in the past, different, and spectacular, and those of us who visited in the 70s and 80s (such as Pipaluk, above) may feel that the zoo has now become rather more ordinary than was once the case.

My criticism would be that the other species seem fairly incidental alongside the cats and ungulates: just a few birds, some lemurs, marmosets and monkeys (and the siamangs), a few reptiles and a few small carnivores.

Wholly agree. A real lurch in the wrong direction came when those cages were put on the back lawn for marmosets in the late 80s. They looked amateur and half-hearted (and still do!), and added nothing to the "Marwell experience". Also, the (now thankfully gone) concrete open-pit thing for meerkats (and, once, skunks and I think dwarf mongooses) near the tigers - just so badly done. Always reminded me of the puddings in an Indian restaurant - there because someone felt they should be, rather than because anybody wants them or knows what to do with them - and consequently pretty grim.

Unfortunately even the nicest species can be very hard to see, it's quite possible to find the snow leopards lying doggo, the lemurs and fossas asleep, the ocelots and sand cats invisible and the okapi in their stalls.

This isn't their fault, I suppose - although the choice of species might make such inactivity inevitable.

a few need to go - particularly the bat shack.

Again, wholly agree. The bat enclosure is quite appalling as a visitor experience, and does nothing to discourage the "bats are gross" response from 99% of the public. I cannot see any way at all in which this exhibit has any merit. I wouldn't expect Marwell to be emulate Chester, but 80 miles along the coast, at Drusillas, is a very nice bat exhibit which works very well.

I think that the entrance area and the 'Australian' area need spicing up with alternative species, preferably active ones, and more imaginative displays.

Alan

The entrance area has long been a dog's breakfast. The gate itself is particularly uninviting, and the immediate prospect upon passing through it (many pounds lighter!) is pretty unattractive. In the past there was a rather nasty little "fun" (sic) park on the left, and then the old cafe - amongst the worst in any zoo, anywhere (and that's quite some claim). The penguins then follow - very nice, although needs some rebooting, I think, and then that long straight road, with, on the right, a pretty featureless paddock featuring capybara and flamingoes behind several thousand wire fences. I'm losing the will to live by this stage. There was talk, once, I believe, of re-alligning the zoo and having the entrance elsewhere. Does anyone know if this is / was a serious prospect?

And as for the Australia thing.... Blimey, it's bad. Poor, thoughtless design; unimaginative species held; a cafe called "Bushtucker Bites", which is oh-so-wrong in oh-so-many ways.

I thought the African Valley was one of the nicest parts, but felt that there could have been more in it.

For what it's worth, I think the problem here is one of unrealised potential (as is the case for much of the park). Viewing of the whole 'valley' is quite limited, and much of it is from the terrace of the cafe (and this isn't massively capacious). A properly designed and landscaped pathway, enabling carefully-managed views into the enclosure, would be needed to lift this enclosure from the humdrum, I feel.

Ive only been a couple of times, but I went round the whole lot in less than 2 hours (I'm usually an opening till closing person).

Much as I'm disappointed by Marwell, I do think it'd take more than two hours to walk around. Mind you, this is to damn it with faint praise, perhaps. How is the zoo? Well, it did take four hours to get around....

 

[IanRRobinson]

Personal circumstances have prevented me visiting Marwell for about three years now, much to my regret. I loved the place when I first visited in 1976 as a boy of 13, when Siberian Tigers, Scimitar-horned Oryx, Gemsbok and Nyala were really exciting novelties in the UK. Hampshire has alweays seemed to me the best place to live in England - beautiful scenery, history, and near enough to the capital city but not dominated by it in the way that Essex or Surrey are. So Marwell is a place that still has a massive appeal to me

From what other say and what I read (and see on the forum's photo gallery) I fear that it does seem to have lost its way. The various attempts at children's areas over the years have never really come off, and for what it's worth I have never liked that tropical house. Quite how Marwell got that past Winchester City Council when they had so much trouble with the initial plans for the lemur complex I'll never know.

It's a pity that the initial fencing wasn't used to help get hedgerows established, especially at the entrance, which as others have commented is a rather bland area. It seems odd that the pond there has never been utilised for flamingos, especially given the lack of success that they've had breeding them in their present location.

Some of the park's strengths have been allowed to dwindle;the fine collection of pheasants and small parrots has largely gone. Lions, jaguars and another small-to-medium cat species would be welcome returnees, and I agree that a bear species would fit in well. Above all, I think, that the African Valley is nowhere close to being fully developed. And that cafe just hasn't been built to be big enough, either inside or on the terrace.

Marwell is still, however, a first-rate collection, with huge untapped potential. Let's hope that it can be realised.

 

[Pertinax]

and those of us who visited in the 70s and 80s (such as Pipaluk, above) may feel that the zoo has now become rather more ordinary than was once the case.

It seems to have gone through several changes of direction and now ticks along as a rather generalised collection, though still with the accent on the African Ungulates of which it undeniably still bosts a fine collection. Much of the rest of the choice of species seems very random nowadays. Last time I went, a year or so back, several buildings looked noticeably shabby and several enclosures were empty. As GL. said, the Australian area is particularly feeble, and as mentioned elsewhere, the Entrance area has always been singularly unnattractive, more like entering a prison than a zoo/wildlife park.

There are also some strange anomolies, like the Siamang enclosure built with no scope to provide proper climbing/swinging opportunities for the inmates(despite recent addition of a wood framework it still hasn't IMO) Black Wildebeest quite recently obtained and then incarcerated on a hardstanding ever since(afaik) and may sometime soon leave- so what was the point of getting them? The African Valley area seems very underused since its creation, are any further species planned for it?

The Park does seem to have been run by Comittees ever since its founder John Knowles departed. There seems no recognisable figurehead or clearcut aim, though I have heard that some non-endangered species may be leaving as they don't fit with the current policy. Which is? Its certainly not what it used to be, IMO.

 

[mukisi]

Marwell

In the sixties most of the larger zoos in the UK [except London] were run by Dictators, some benevolant, some not; John Knowles [marwell], Molly Badham [Twycross], Roger Wheatar [Edinburgh], theFather & son Greeds[Bristol], George Mottershead [Chester] and others. They were all great for their time but time has moved on.

 

[Pertinax]

There has been little news from Marwell of late, since Zambar stopped posting his regular updates in fact. Any news about proposed or possible developments planned at Marwell for this comng season would be welcome on this thread.

 

[sooty mangabey]

In the sixties most of the larger zoos in the UK [except London] were run by Dictators, some benevolant, some not; John Knowles [marwell], Molly Badham [Twycross], Roger Wheatar [Edinburgh], theFather & son Greeds[Bristol], George Mottershead [Chester] and others. They were all great for their time but time has moved on.

This is true. I do think, though, that any organisation, be it a zoo or a school or a football club, needs to have a clear sense of direction, with the person at the helm setting the tone for expectations and vision. Pertinax hits the nail on the head above, when he suggests that Marwell does not seem to know what it wants to be. Those zoos that have worked this out - indeed, those organisations that have worked this out - are, on the whole, more successful than those that have not. Colchester, love it or hate it, knows what it wants to be. So too Drusillas. So to Woburn. So too Chester, Belfast, Edinburgh. Marwell and Twycross strike me as the most uncertain zoos in this regard in the UK, and it is no coincidence that each is floundering, a little. Mr Knowles had his detractors, but he had a vision for the park. He was also a pretty astute business man. As an outsider, it looks as if, since his retirement, the zoo has been plagued by mediocre leadership.

 

[FBBird]

Marwell's early reputation was as a specialist hoofstock collection with a few decent cats. I'm sure I can remember seeing all three Zebra species and all three Oryx species in a day there. I seem to remember they reduced their Przvalski's [never sure if I've spelt that right] Horse numbers at a a stage when -- partly because of Marwell's breeding success with the species -- there were more about than hitherto, and Marwell perhaps needed to focus on species in greater need of propagation.
It seems that any zoo created by one or two charismatic and visionary individuals will have an identity crisis when those individuals are no longer around, and may have a change of direction.

 

[Jordan-Jaguar97]

Marwell's early reputation was as a specialist hoofstock collection with a few decent cats. I'm sure I can remember seeing all three Zebra species and all three Oryx species in a day there. I seem to remember they reduced their Przvalski's [never sure if I've spelt that right] Horse numbers at a a stage when -- partly because of Marwell's breeding success with the species -- there were more about than hitherto, and Marwell perhaps needed to focus on species in greater need of propagation.
It seems that any zoo created by one or two charismatic and visionary individuals will have an identity crisis when those individuals are no longer around, and may have a change of direction.

Przewalski's horse. If I'm correct than Marwell still have all three Zebra species, they also had Asian (Not pure Asian's) Lions.

 

[mazfc]

I have never managed to do Marwell in anything less than a full day,to do it all in 2 hours did you only look at the primates

no I did the whole lot, even the secretary birds

To be fair though i did stay a bit longer the first time, on my second visit I just felt the place didnt have much atmosphere. I'm not sure I can really explain what I meant, but it felt a bit flat.

 

[zoogiraffe]

no I did the whole lot, even the secretary birds

To be fair though i did stay a bit longer the first time, on my second visit I just felt the place didnt have much atmosphere. I'm not sure I can really explain what I meant, but it felt a bit flat.

Just thought I would ask knowing how long you spend with Primates.

 

[mazfc]

Just thought I would ask knowing how long you spend with Primates.

It made me smile when I read it. I'm very predictable

 

[zoogiraffe]

It made me smile when I read it. I'm very predictable

Glad the comment was taken the way it was mean't

 

[IanRRobinson]

Przewalski's horse. If I'm correct than Marwell still have all three Zebra species, they also had Asian (Not pure Asian's) Lions.

I think they DID have purebred Asian lions for a time; Jersey sent over (late 70s?) an elderly pair which they had received from India direct in 1972, but which never bred, and didn't do so at Marwell. They were pedigree I think.

They lived out their lives in a pretty grotty holding pen, that TBH wouldn't have flattered porcupines for space, which stood in the courtyard that now holds the Tropical House.

The hybrid lions lived in the facility that stood until pretty recently on South Road.

 

[gentle lemur]

Re-reading my previous post I think I was trying to say what others have said better: there is not much wrong with Marwell, but it is not as exciting as it should be.
Species which attract your attention at other zoos are just rather humdrum at Marwell. For example, lots of zoos have Celebes black apes (if you're PC, I mean Sulawesi crested macaques of course) and they are active and interesting - I saw a young male doing handstands at Paignton earlier this week. The group at Marwell are well housed and well cared for I'm sure - but inactive and dull, at least on my last 2 visits.
In my experience, the same is true for the lemurs (except the Alaotra gentle lemurs of course ), the marmosets, even the snow leopards.
Is this a failure of enrichment? Why don't they do more talks and feedings? As far as I know there is only the penguin event daily - please correct me if I'm wrong. Come to think of it, I can only recall seeing a couple of keepers during a whole day at Marwell last September. I don't think I have ever spoken to a keeper there and I can't think of another zoo of that size in the UK where I can say that.

Alan

 

[sooty mangabey]

Why don't they do more talks and feedings? As far as I know there is only the penguin event daily - please correct me if I'm wrong. Come to think of it, I can only recall seeing a couple of keepers during a whole day at Marwell last September. I don't think I have ever spoken to a keeper there and I can't think of another zoo of that size in the UK where I can say that.

Alan

Again, I'd have to agree with what you say here. To return to the Colchester comparison: it (Colchester) may be flawed in many ways, but when you visit it you really do feel as if you are overwhelmed with stuff to do and see, and also you feel that the zoo is making an effort on your behalf.

To be fair to Marwell, I think part of the problem is to do with the basic design of the place: once you enter the zoo, you start walking around the loop of the pathway and there are very few opportunities to diverge from that path. So, if there was say, a warthog feed at 2.30, you'd have to walk back through the whole zoo to be there for it, rather than being able to cut through from wherever you might be.

I did once see a sort of play on the back lawn, in a tent. It was a kind of morality tale about conservation, featuring (I would guess) first year drama students. At one point there was a joke about Michael Carrick, the footballer who had just been sold by Tottenham to Manchester United. For relevance and local-interest, this was somewhat lacking. It was amongst the most teeth-rattlingly embarrassing forty minutes of my life.