Marwell Wildlife Marwell Zoo News 2014

[Communityzoo]

Could you elaborate on what the specifics of the Marwell and latter Whipsnade set-ups for black rhino were that were less desirable than elsewhere? I don't doubt you at all, but its interesting to me that pasture/soil type could play such a role in success/lack of success with such a species.

 

[okapis]

Could you elaborate on what the specifics of the Marwell and latter Whipsnade set-ups for black rhino were that were less desirable than elsewhere? I don't doubt you at all, but its interesting to me that pasture/soil type could play such a role in success/lack of success with such a species.

The Black Rhino at Marwell came in 1981,the male born at London in 1978,and the female born at Whipsnade in 1979,they had the same father,the male who died in 1986 had had respiratory infection for some time the female died 3 weeks later from heart failure,If I can think back never saw them out on grass paddock just house and hardstand.

 

[Nanook]

@Pertinax, as I do not know what is in the long term Masterplan for Marwell - nor do I assume most posters on this forum have any substantive idea -, I cannot make any informed judgments on whether the investment in new exhibit for white rhino (enlarged group), scimitars and Grevy's is too much funds for too few species.

On face value: I do like the design plan for the exhibit and the waterhole thing. I do think it will change the center of Marwell overlooking the Hall (that being my personal perception …).


As stated previously, I would have liked the scimitars with Arabian oryx in separate and improved exhibits on that large lawn south of the current Arabian oryx pen.


As for white rhinos and breeding at Whipsnade, I am happy to answer questions relating to rhinos .. in the relevant thread.

In actual fact, you may be surprised to hear, there are a few posters on here that certainly DO HAVE, a very informed view of what is exactly going on at Marwell!

 

[Nanook]

Marwell do not appear to have any real 'masterplan', they just appear to lose species at a rapid rate, whilst coming up with ideas for amending existing exhibits for current species at random intervals.
As someone posted earlier, the african valley is now yesterday's news, even though it has not been completed to a satisfactory level from a visitor perspective.
If they are not going to breed the rhino, £2.8 m is a lot of money that could have been spent on new exhibits for any number of new species and the non-breeding group could've stayed where they are.

Absolutely, spot on there!

 

[TriUK]

In actual fact, you may be surprised to hear, there are a few posters on here that certainly DO HAVE, a very informed view of what is exactly going on at Marwell!

What do you mean by this?

 

[Pertinax]

Marwell do not appear to have any real 'masterplan', they just appear to lose species at a rapid rate, whilst coming up with ideas for amending existing exhibits for current species at random intervals.
As someone posted earlier, the african valley is now yesterday's news, even though it has not been completed to a satisfactory level from a visitor perspective.

That is still the feeling I get too.

 

[Communityzoo]

If they are not going to breed the rhino, £2.8 m is a lot of money that could have been spent on new exhibits for any number of new species and the non-breeding group could've stayed where they are.

I'm not sure where the idea that they are not planning to breed from the rhino? Unless I've missed something? I had read the new housing could accommodate up to six individuals, which suggested to me they would be planning on holding a breeding group, and likely to bring in new cows to breed or additional males to stimulate breeding behaviour. It sounds to me like they are investing in their rhino for the long-term.

As for the existing group (is it two cows currently, or is the bull still alive?), the current accommodation is not up to EEP standards, so expenditure would have been required at some point anyway, as these are (I believe) EEP and not Marwell-owned animals, and would surely be asked to send them elsewhere by the EEP at some point if Marwell left them in the current housing....at which point they would then be going out of rhino too, and likely have little or no chance of going back into any rhino species. Perhaps its possible they could have been refused new rhino until an upgrade has been completed.

However, given the plans also make reference to the development being intended to help reverse declining visitor numbers, I agree with you that the elephant (or absence of one, as it were) in the room is the reduction in individuals and species within the park, and it seems strange for Marwell to have failed to incorporate a new species into the plans. I do think that the majority of new ungulate species currently causing a stir on the Whipsnade thread are of 'Least Concern' so, if it is true that Marwell's collection planning is focused only on endangered species, that greatly reduces their options for African antelope available to them that aren't already part of their collection, and seems likely that more of their existing stock will leave.

I wonder what data Marwell have collected to assess both why their visitor numbers are declining, and how they have arrived at the conclusion that the proposed development will increase them. I can only assume they are suffering the wetter summers in recent years, as zoo visitors begin to expect to have to brave the conditions less and less.

 

[Pertinax]

I wonder what data Marwell have collected to assess both why their visitor numbers are declining, and how they have arrived at the conclusion that the proposed development will increase them.

Re the White Rhinos. I agree with you in thinking the intention is to have a small breeding group again- the news item relating to this indicates that. They would not be spending vast sums on new Rhino accomodation with the intention of just holding non-breeders- apart from creating specifically all male/ bachelor accomodation, Zoos just don't do that.

Regarding visitor numbers. Could it be simply that the park hasn't offered its visitors anything 'fresh' for some years now. Also, and tied in with that, the Marwell collection is distinctly lacking in some 'big draw' species visitors like to see, no Elephants, very few large Primates, no Lions, Pinnipeds etc. and is still heavily skewed toward the Hoofstock which, Giraffe and Zebra excepted, still aren't the most interesting of animals for many visitors, however rare the choice of existing or future species might be. Regarding that aspect, there's a very big gulf between what a few Zoochat enthusiasts might want to see at a Park, compared with your average family on a day out.

Accepting it as a more generalised collection nowadays rather than the specialised park of the past, maybe the absence of some of those ABC species is what the zoo-going public perceive is lacking?

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

In actual fact, you may be surprised to hear, there are a few posters on here that certainly DO HAVE, a very informed view of what is exactly going on at Marwell!

If you re-read my observation, you will note that I am convinced that very few people on this forum have any substantive idea of what Marwell management plans are for Marwell. All I meant ...! So, no need to get too excited there.

Secondly, I do not deny regular visitors' at Marwell observations'. Just do any of you posting very frequently really know what is driving the "species loss" or "rationalization"? No Masterplan? No Collection Planning? I doubt that.

As Communityzoo implied what role does the EAZA / EEP and TAG's play. F.i. in the case of the takin (if no breeding purpose or longterm in collection plan, better suited to another collection willing or able to breed)?

No Marwell Collection Plan? I find that hard to believe! They at least must have a concept plan what Marwell (Wildlife) must look like in 5 or 10 years from now.

What does anyone know about the economics of the site? Decreasing visitor numbers ... (a general decreasing trend was noted in 2011 in zoos across Europe)?

What are visitor perceptions' - and I do not mean us zoo afficionados - of Marwell Zoo / Wildlife? Do they think it is value for money? What about the facilities (the issues with Cafe Graze ... are well known) and visitor services?

 

[Communityzoo]

..in the case of the takin (if no breeding purpose or longterm in collection plan, better suited to another collection willing or able to breed)?

Am I right in thinking the takin pair have only produced 2 calves, neither which survived beyond about a year? Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not aware if either of the adults were replaced at any point, but perhaps it was originally envisaged that a small group could be formed through breeding and subsequent exchanges, and for some reason this seems to have either not been possible or had been advised against. I know the males are known to be aggressive....does this intensify when they have access to only one female?

It seems an odd choice for the takin to go, but for reasons unknown to me Marwell doesn't seem to have really had any success with them, plus there is now a UK holder with a large breeding group at HWP.

 

[sooty mangabey]

What are visitor perceptions' - and I do not mean us zoo afficionados - of Marwell Zoo / Wildlife? Do they think it is value for money? What about the facilities (the issues with Cafe Graze ... are well known) and visitor services?

This is an interesting question - not least because there can be no empirical answer.

Trip Advisor is a good 'finger in the air', however maddeningly ignorant some of the reviews may be. I feel sorry for Marwell when it is criticised for 'no longer' having elephants and gorillas (as is the case on TA), but nonetheless, while the majority of reviews are positive, there are a significant number of negatives, most of which make the point about there not being much to see.

At the moment, Marwell has 606 reviews, of which 62 - so just shy of 10% - describe it as poor or terrible.

In comparison, Colchester's figures are 17 out of 1,026 (less than 2%), and Whipsnade's are 52 out of 718 (about 7%). Of the major UK zoos that I checked, only one has a greater proportion of negative comments: Twycross has 196 out of 905 (nearly 22%, which seems very high - even given the well-recorded faults of this zoo). Overseas, Emmen Zoo has just 68 reviews, with 1 poor or terrible, Apenheul has 5 out of 162 and Cologne has 8 out of 419.

Not very scientific, but it does indicate that many 'muggles' are as unimpressed as many nerds - even if their level of being unimpressed is, perhaps, lower.

 

[Pertinax]

only one has a greater proportion of negative comments: Twycross has 196 out of 905 (nearly 22%, which seems very high - even given the well-recorded faults of this zoo).

Its interesting to note that Twycross have, or had until recently, most of the recognised ABC species(Anthropoid Apes, wide variety of Monkeys, Sealions, Camels,(do Marwell still have Camels?) Elephants, Lions etc) that Marwell don't have, and vice versa (Marwell having Giraffe, Tigers, Rhinos, Hippos- albeit Pygmies + a wide and choice selection of Ungulates.)

Put the two collections together and you probably wouldn't have many complaints, at least about what there was to see. In Twycross' case some of the buildings might still let them down rather though.

 

[okapis]

Having been going to Marwell since the place was opened it has changed very much with the new regime yes lots of species have gone the sand cats being one all put down a while ago with age related problems replaced with dwarf yellow mongoose and meerkat species they already had or had before,yes I am sure some plans for the future one a new tropical house and new hippo wetland area,but Marwell is very much a open grass paddock zoo what is the plan for this ? unless they build housing close by they can not put more animals out in the african valley area, yes they could have a done witha second female Tarkin and the pair have had 2 young both did not last that long and the female has had health problems but you never here of any species for the future just more of the same. Its also has to be said that Marwell has also lost some very good senior keepers and other staff in the last few years all from the Knowles era it was as if people wanted them out lets get rid of the past.

 

[BongoHardwood]

Camels,(do Marwell still have Camels?)

They do indeed!

 

[okapis]

Just to follow on in 2005 Marwell mammals stocklist gives 112 species and 872 animals, last year gives 72 species and 340 animals says it all.

 

[Pertinax]

unless they build housing close by they can not put more animals out in the african valley area,

What is to stop them doing that? I don't quite understand the premise behind planning to open up that large area if it wasn't going to be used to its full capacity, with a good mix of species, with indoor housing areas built specifically to feed into it and with proper public viewing areas. Its big enough to hold White rhino as well.

 

[okapis]

What is to stop them doing that? I don't quite understand the premise behind planning to open up that large area if it wasn't going to be used to its full capacity, with a good mix of species, with indoor housing areas built specifically to feed into it and with proper public viewing areas. Its big enough to hold White rhino as well.

White elephant time ,as I am sure you know no viewing apart from Restaurant and two far away then, was something John Knowles wanted to do but did not get round to I think the new management wanted to make statement but did not think through,Knowles wanted to put lions out there as well.

 

[Pertinax]

but did not get round to

Now where have I heard that phrase before recently... I think it was relating to the Twycross chimpanzee housing- over a thirty year period no less. IMO it is just about the worst/most feeble excuse for failings in our Zoos.

I do find it very strange how Marwell are now talking up a fancy expensive new exhibit for Rhinos etc without ever properly finishing or bringing up to standard a previous one- the valley area looks to me like an essentially offshow area for surplus animals. There is no real excuse at all for leaving it in a sort of limbo. Or at the very least, never saying why. Weird.

 

[okapis]

Fossa due to arrive at Marwell female from Duisberg Germany,Red crowned cranes on eggs have been at Marwell long time but have never bred,the aviary up by the giraffe house will now just hold the pair of Marabou stork the Sacred ibis will leave the zoo,and the old serval exhibit could become an aviary.

 

[pipaluk]

Fossa due to arrive at Marwell female from Duisberg Germany,Red crowned cranes on eggs have been at Marwell long time but have never bred,the aviary up by the giraffe house will now just hold the pair of Marabou stork the Sacred ibis will leave the zoo,and the old serval exhibit could become an aviary.

As usual good news has to be followed by bad when it's from Marwell! Great news on the Fossa, i felt sure they'd be next to go. Very bad news on the serval enclosure though.