Melbourne Zoo Melbourne Zoo in the 1980's

RE the Lion Park and the new Lion Gorge:

My understanding is as follows:

The Lion Park was built in 1966 - meaning that in 2016 it would have been 50 years old. Had it got to 50 years old, then the National Trust could've forced the zoo to keep it in its original condition. If this was allowed to happen then the zoo would have its hands tied forever and would never be allowed to demolish it without permission from the National Trust.

Pretty much everyone I've ever spoken to about it agrees that the old Lion Park was a better enclosure than the new Lion Gorge (and I agree with them) - but the problem is that in 30 years time that old Lion Park may be seen as a really ugly monstrosity, and then the zoo could be stuck with it - due to the grip of the National Trust.....

So I'm assuming (and I don't know - I'm just assuming here), that the zoo decided that it would be better to replace the Lion Park rather than keep it and risk being stuck with it forever should the National Trust decide to force the issue....

I have no idea what the laws or rules would be if the original construction was altered in any way, and I'm assuming that the bridge over the top would've been the part the National Trust would most likely force the zoo to keep - but in any case, I'm sure the zoo would've been aware of all this and made what it felt was the best decision going forward into the future.

This really does show that while organisations like the National Trust are important and can be good for our cities and their heritage, they really do have far too much control sometimes and can really stifle progress..... but that's a discussion for some other forum - not a zoo forum...
 
Mark O said:
Absolutely! I miss the old elephants enclosure - that's nostalgia. I miss the old ape grottoes (going to see the gorillas was probably my favorite thing to do once we got to the zoo) - that's nostalgia, lemur island is pretty well done. I miss the old seal pool - that's nostalgia, I was really impressed with Wild Sea when I first saw it and have enjoyed it every time I've been back - it's definitely an improvement.
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Personally, I don't understand why the old elephant exhibit has sat empty for a decade when it would be perfectly adequate for a medium sized mammals like tapirs, peccaries, or even maned wolves.

As much as the lemur exhibit is okay, I always thought it was a poor choice for that location. In my mind the obvious would have been to demolish the walls between the grottoes and open it up into one larger gorilla exhibit. This would have allowed Melbourne to maintain their bachelor group or to form a second troop and rotate between the exhibits. With a bit of landscaping and by filling the moats with water (as they have now done with the lemurs) they could have turned the grottoes into an exhibit very comparable to Taronga's or San Diego Safari parks. Not amazing, but perfectly adequate for a second exhibit that would have made a nice new entrance to the rainforest.

The carnivores section I was overwhelmingly unimpressed with. The industrial shipping container theme is already outdated and much of the structures are, as you say totally unnecessary. I think the meshing over the old bear exhibit to allow for snow leopards is a good idea, but I was also perplexed as to what a cantilevered shipping container is supposed to offer the visitor?

It's might be worth noting it's the same firm responsible for most of Zoos Victoria's new developments. You'll notice they seem to repeat the same themes in Wild Sea and the Lemur walkthrough: little additional or even less space allocated to animals, a taste for industrial "simulations" of nature rather than the real thing. Over engineered visitor spaces and viewing areas that go unused. Poor visibility and awkward sloped floors and terrain. Lets hope they never build their proposed South America section at Werribee.

Grant Rhino said:
RE the Lion Park and the new Lion Gorge:
The Lion Park was built in 1966 - meaning that in 2016 it would have been 50 years old. Had it got to 50 years old, then the National Trust could've forced the zoo to keep it in its original condition. If this was allowed to happen then the zoo would have its hands tied forever and would never be allowed to demolish it without permission from the National Trust.
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That makes a lot of sense. Pity they had no real plan beyond this.
 
toothlessjaws said:
Personally, I don't understand why the old elephant exhibit has sat empty for a decade when it would be perfectly adequate for a medium sized mammals like tapirs, peccaries, or even maned wolves.
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Using it for something (other than Roar N' Snore) would have been nice for sure. Clearly the zoo is embarrassed by it, I'm always impressed how it continues to be harder and harder to even see as the years go on.

toothlessjaws said:
As much as the lemur exhibit is okay, I always thought it was a poor choice for that location. In my mind the obvious would have been to demolish the walls between the grottoes and open it up into one larger gorilla exhibit.
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I would have loved that.

toothlessjaws said:
You'll notice they seem to repeat the same themes in Wild Sea and the Lemur walkthrough: little additional or even less space allocated to animals, a taste for industrial "simulations" of nature rather than the real thing.
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The one part of Wild Sea I don't love is the penguins. While I guess it's an improvement that you can see them under water, seeing them outside against all the modern steel architecture is disjointing. Especially if you've done the penguin parade, or run into them on St. Kilda pier. While I was at MZ, I got a great photo of one mid dive into the water, however all the steel and concrete surrounding in the background mars the shot. It doesn't seem like it'd have taken much effort to make this side of the building look like a natural habitat.

The other thing I've noticed, after 4 times through Wild Sea, is that placement of penguins is poor, cognitively. By the time you've viewed the seals at two different areas, walked up past the other smaller fish & seahorses, and then stopped outside by the top viewing area (either for the show or anecdotally), mentally you've left the exhibit and are focused on actually exiting and working out where you're headed next. Rounding the corner by seals, the penguins being on display is unexpected and stopping to look at them is kind of an after thought (because you thought you were exiting). That's been my experience anyway. When the fairy penguins were by the elephants, viewing them was conversely quite deliberate.
 
Grant Rhino said:
The Lion Park was built in 1966 - meaning that in 2016 it would have been 50 years old. Had it got to 50 years old, then the National Trust could've forced the zoo to keep it in its original condition. If this was allowed to happen then the zoo would have its hands tied forever and would never be allowed to demolish it without permission from the National Trust.
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Do things change after a listed item becomes 50 years old? Searching through the National Trust and VHR sites I couldn't find anything referencing this. Certainly from a VHR perspective, it seems that the need for a permit to modify or demolish a registered place is irrespective of age.

I'm pretty naive on the subject, so just curious. I think that most parts still VHR registered are older than 50 years, so it'd be nice to know if these things are more historically "protected" from change.
 
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Mark O said:
Do things change after a listed item becomes 50 years old? Searching through the National Trust and VHR sites I couldn't find anything referencing this. Certainly from a VHR perspective, it seems that the need for a permit to modify or demolish a registered place is irrespective of age.

I'm pretty naive on the subject, so just curious. I think that most parts still VHR registered are older than 50 years, so it'd be nice to know if these things are more historically "protected" from change.
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I really don't know either - I'm no expert on these things. All I can say is what I've heard - but of course that doesn't mean that it's necessarily true or completely true...
 
Mark O said:
Whenever I return to Melbourne, a trip to the Melbourne Zoo is guaranteed. And what is even more guaranteed the more time goes on is that I'll get nostalgic for the old zoo I knew as a kid, back in the 1980's; and frustration at the parts I don't remember super well, followed up by Google searches that always end up leading me to this site.

This time around (was back in Sep), I thought I'd throw out the questions that continually come up in my mind:

1. Are there any 1980's era Melbourne Zoo maps online? Earliest I have found is circa 1992 (on this site a couple of years ago I think). I've never been able to find one representative of prior to the Pygmy Hippos moving to the rain-forest. (If I could go back in time and tell younger me to hold onto physical zoo maps back then as I do now, I would! :) )

2. What was between the Ape Grottoes and Arboreal Treetop Walkway prior to the Gorilla Rain Forest construction?
Were there more Arboreal Treetop Walkway enclosures than there are today?
I feel that they were, but I'm not sure whether I think that just because they were likely more visible with less rain-forest vegetation than they have been since the late 90's.
I remember (vaguely) when the Giant Pandas were housed there in 1988, but otherwise I draw a blank - was it just an exhibit less walk from the Ape Grottoes to the Treetop Walkway?

3. Are there any photos out there of the old Pygmy Hippo enclosures by the (old) elephants?
My childhood memory of them is both vivid (dark green colored rectangles with glass viewing) and also very vague:
- where exactly were they positioned? I always think of them running west to east right at the end of the path past the (old) elephants, but that doesn't seem practical, so I question that memory.
- was the Bistro lake part of their enclosure?

4. When were the Old Ape House and Ape Grottoes built / opened?
Not really 1980's related, but I came across a 1950's map this week and they're not on it, so it makes me curious what era they were.

5. What, if anything existed where the Otter & Sumatran tiger exhibits are these days?
I remember those two enclosures being new (early 90's), but I don't have a great memory of what was there previously in the 80's. I kinda remember it as all kangaroos and wallabys, but was that really all that was along the south part of that path from Main Drive to the Butterfly House prior to the tiger enclosure?

6. What happened to the 5 pole sculptures that were in the fountain at the zoo entrance in the 1980's?
On a visit in 2007 when I still lived in Melbourne, I noticed they'd been relocated (after decades of probably passing them there) to where the entrance to Wild Sea now is (I think - or across from the Seal Pool if not).
Did they zoo preserve them once Wild Sea was constructed? I haven't noticed them anywhere on my trips back post 2009 (though I don't think I've consciously looked for them).
Bonus points: does anyone remember when that fountain at the entrance was removed?
Admittedly I had forgotten about the fountain until I came across some photos the State Library has this week, so I'm guessing it was early in my childhood (pre 90's).

7. Was there an Australia walk past the Butterfly Kiosk up to the Great Flight Aviary?
I remember a gate past the Kiosk & picnic tables (essentially where the elephant barn is now I think), but don't see it on any map I have - am pretty sure it existed until the whole area was redeveloped for the Trail Of The Elephants - or is my memory wrong?

In addition to any answers, any I'd love to see any photos or maps from this era.
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This is a map that from 1984 from a book that I had.
 

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Kynan said:
This is a map that from 1984 from a book that I had.
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I never understand why the generation above me pities our generation for growing up in the new millennium, until I see the biodiversity of a 1980’s zoo.

We’re fast approaching the stage where Australian and New Zealand zoos will hold only half the species they once had.
 
Zoofan15 said:
I never understand why the generation above me pities our generation for growing up in the new millennium, until I see the biodiversity of a 1980’s zoo.

We’re fast approaching the stage where Australian and New Zealand zoos will hold only half the species they once had.
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Heh. There was a zoo within walking distance of my house when I was growing up (in New Zealand) that had four species of macaques (Pig-tailed, Crab-eating, Rhesus, and Bonnet), De Brazza's Monkeys, Caracals, Bobcats, Leopards, Maras, and Coatis.
 
Chlidonias said:
Heh. There was a zoo within walking distance of my house when I was growing up (in New Zealand) that had four species of macaques (Pig-tailed, Crab-eating, Rhesus, and Bonnet), De Brazza's Monkeys, Caracals, Bobcats, Leopards, Maras, and Coatis.
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It better not have done. :eek:
 
Chlidonias said:
I'm not sure what that means. The zoo did have those animals, if that is what you're asking.
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Don’t worry, it was just an expression of disbelief. Of course I believe you, I don’t recall you ever been wrong about anything in the time I’ve been on ZooChat. :D
 
MRJ said:
Now I am thinking that Evans had died and that there was a plaque erected in his honour that was unveiled at the opening? Maybe the plaque is still there, it was on the wall of the back of the terrace over the pool, that is not on the exhibit itself. Memory does play tricks. Anyway maybe somebody passing will have a look.
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This seems accurate. I don't know if the plaques still exist post Lion Gorge, but that is indeed where they were.

I found a photo of it here: Melbourne Zoo 2008 - Front of the Syrian Brown Bear exhibit - ZooChat

Zooming in, the larger one on top declares the exhibit being opened by John Cain. The smaller one beneath says Peter Evans, though it's not high res enough to make out any more of the details.
 
Mark O said:
This seems accurate. I don't know if the plaques still exist post Lion Gorge, but that is indeed where they were.

I found a photo of it here: Melbourne Zoo 2008 - Front of the Syrian Brown Bear exhibit - ZooChat

Zooming in, the larger one on top declares the exhibit being opened by John Cain. The smaller one beneath says Peter Evans, though it's not high res enough to make out any more of the details.
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I don't believe the plaque still exists.

John Cain opened the Bear enclosure in 1986; during the time he was the Premier.
 
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Jambo said:
I don't believe the plaque still exists.

John Cain opened the Bear enclosure in 1986; during the time he was the Premier.
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The plaque most likely still exists in that they tend to keep everything like that, however I am sure you are right and it is no longer on display. Must admit I’ve never seen Predator Ridge.
 
MRJ said:
Premier of Victoria.
Who or what is Journey, also a genuine question.
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Bengal Tiger said:
A very famous arena rock band, they’ll be the first result when you look it up (or one of them), check out the lineup with Steve Perry, that was their best era, though at a point Gregg Rolie (Formerly of Santana) was the lead vocalist. This was all in the 80s.
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They’re even famous enough to be referenced by other bands:

I stopped believin'
Although Journey told me don't
Before I call it a day
Maybe this'll be my year

- This'll Be My Year (Train)
 
Zoofan15 said:
They’re even famous enough to be referenced by other bands:

I stopped believin'
Although Journey told me don't
Before I call it a day
Maybe this'll be my year

- This'll Be My Year (Train)
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Yes but that makes sense: Train Journey.
 
MRJ said:
The plaque most likely still exists in that they tend to keep everything like that, however I am sure you are right and it is no longer on display. Must admit I’ve never seen Predator Ridge.
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It's definitely not still part of the Leopard Ridge. I agree, probably still off display at the moment.

The predator precinct is a rather decent area. The enclosures are all quite nice and naturalistic. The standout is the Snow Leopard exhibit which was built in the place of the old Bear enclosure. I think we'd all agree though, that the old Lion Park was much better than the current Lion enclosure.
 
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