Missed Collections

FBBird said:
I think Birdland was actually the first generic bird garden anywhere [Slimbridge being a specialist wildfowl establishment]
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Per Clinton Keeling's "Where the Macaw Preened" (1993) the Delamere Bird Garden at Fladbury near Evesham opened in 1952. At the time of Mr Keeling's visit in 1970 it did have a Reptile House and a fish collection (his account does not say if they had been there since its opening) in case that disqualifies it as a pure bird garden.
 
Places I miss:

Aberdeen. Small, but very neat and well-kept. Good collection of native species plus some exotics. Good (small) walk-through indoor aviary.

Riber. Many faults, but the Lynx were good!

Places I don't miss:

Bridgemere. In case the proprieter is still alive I shall say no more!

Tenby. Extraordinary place in a fort, on an island! Anybody else ever go there?

Morecambe Dolphinarium.

The odd indoor collection in Rhyl (1970s?).

Going further back I'd have loved to visit the Shavington Zoo (breeding tamarins in the 1930s !!), or the Liverpool collections!
 
wibbs said:
on this link here some old footage of Thorney wildlife park
East Anglian Film Archive: An A-Z of East Anglian Villages: Thorney, 1975
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Incredible old footage of Thorney Wildlife Park - how flimsey was that mesh on the Polar Bear enclosure!


Several posts mention Southport`s Mandrills - the Petries were particularly proud of their success with both the Mandrills and the Binturongs , they had several awards for outstanding breeding and husbandry from the old zoo federation (now BIAZA of course). This was despite the relatively poor conditions of the enclosures , the Mandrills original cage was,to be fair, perfectly adequate in those days, but would not be regarded as such by todays standards, the Binturongs enclosure was made up of two adjoining cages linked together, again quite poor, BUT the Binturongs loved it and did extremely well in it. They bred more Binturongs and Mandrills at Southport than anywhere else in the UK and , as many people have mentioned , the descendants of those animals are still to be found amongst the present stock in other collections in the UK. The Mandrills imported from the USA were only brought in fairly late in the last few years (c1994) , subsequently the groups were split and a newer enclosure built after 1994.
The elderly "pair" of Spider Monkeys were made up of two species housed together like that for many years at Southport.
 
Nanook said:
Incredible old footage of Thorney Wildlife Park - how flimsey was that mesh on the Polar Bear enclosure!


Several posts mention Southport`s Mandrills - the Petries were particularly proud of their success with both the Mandrills and the Binturongs , they had several awards for outstanding breeding and husbandry from the old zoo federation (now BIAZA of course). This was despite the relatively poor conditions of the enclosures , the Mandrills original cage was,to be fair, perfectly adequate in those days, but would not be regarded as such by todays standards, the Binturongs enclosure was made up of two adjoining cages linked together, again quite poor, BUT the Binturongs loved it and did extremely well in it. They bred more Binturongs and Mandrills at Southport than anywhere else in the UK and , as many people have mentioned , the descendants of those animals are still to be found amongst the present stock in other collections in the UK. The Mandrills imported from the USA were only brought in fairly late in the last few years (c1994) , subsequently the groups were split and a newer enclosure built after 1994.
The elderly "pair" of Spider Monkeys were made up of two species housed together like that for many years at Southport.
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Thanks for posting the film about Thorney,I always wondered what this place was like, I don't think I missed much!, I would say a typical commercial venture that mushroomed up at that time,I recall a late friend of mine, a zoo/circus enthusiast not speaking very highly of it, he lived in Thorney and his old house is also shown on the film at the beginning of the clip.
 
Southport Mandrills

Nanook said:
Several posts mention Southport`s Mandrills - the Petries were particularly proud of their success with both the Mandrills and the Binturongs , they had several awards for outstanding breeding and husbandry from the old zoo federation (now BIAZA of course).
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The original pair of Mandrills came from(I think) Ravensden or another dealer. The large group Southport had at one time were all descended from this pair + breedings from the male Packy and his eldest daughter(s) until the USA imports of 2.2 in the 1990's.

Mandrill groups which contain Southport-bred individuals or bloodline in the UK;

Colchester-(London x Southport origin)- might still include Southport-bred female of original trio?

Chester (females from Colchester)

Trotters- their original stock came direct from Southport when it closed, including a male from the USA import/descent.

Heythop (private) Zoo. Direct from Southport on/after closure?

South Lakes- though their group came from Jerusalem(or Tel Aviv?) Zoo, and not from Southport, animals from Southport may have been exported there, so their current group may also contain Southport blood.

Paignton- had at least one animal from Southport in previous group, but not represented in their current stock.
 
Nanook said:
the Mandrills original cage was,to be fair, perfectly adequate in those days, but would not be regarded as such by todays standards, the Binturongs enclosure was made up of two adjoining cages linked together, again quite poor, BUT the Binturongs loved it and did extremely well in it. They bred more Binturongs and Mandrills at Southport than anywhere else in the UK
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Please take note lovers of trendy, expensive and enormous exhibits.
 
TARZAN said:
And is Southport still open for business these days?:)
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I thought its demise was mostly due to missing a deadline for the renewal of the lease on some of the land. I did hear, though, that Chester had played some kind of a role in its closure (I was standing next to a member of this site as he was talking to a senior member of staff at Chester who said so). I know which place I'd rather have seen close!
 
Parrotsandrew said:
I thought its demise was mostly due to missing a deadline for the renewal of the lease on some of the land. I did hear, though, that Chester had played some kind of a role in its closure (I was standing next to a member of this site as he was talking to a senior member of staff at Chester who said so). I know which place I'd rather have seen close!
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Yes we all know which zoo you would have wanted to close,its the progressive one that moved away from keeping animals,in chains and small cages era that you so addore!
 
Parrotsandrew said:
I thought its demise was mostly due to missing a deadline for the renewal of the lease on some of the land. I did hear, though, that Chester had played some kind of a role in its closure (I was standing next to a member of this site as he was talking to a senior member of staff at Chester who said so). I know which place I'd rather have seen close!
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Perhaps Chester were frightened of the competition, no disrespect to Southport, I suppose it was the last of the old small seaside zoos, more there for amusement than any educational or conservation roles. I observe Andrew, like myself, enjoy the reading of the late Clinton Keeling. I recall one article he wrote which included Southport, apparently years ago its former owner once labelled Vietnamese pot bellied pigs as "baby hippos", also in a vivarium were some lizards labelled on a piece of cardboard in crayon"baby dragons", :)
 
TARZAN said:
Perhaps Chester were frightened of the competition, no disrespect to Southport, I suppose it was the last of the old small seaside zoos, more there for amusement than any educational or conservation roles. I observe Andrew, like myself, enjoy the reading of the late Clinton Keeling. I recall one article he wrote which included Southport, apparently years ago its former owner once labelled Vietnamese pot bellied pigs as "baby hippos", also in a vivarium were some lizards labelled on a piece of cardboard in crayon"baby dragons", :)
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I don't know what role Chester played, although I believe it was once commissioned to prepare a report on Southport (this was listed in the publications section of Chester's annual report or maybe in IZN). Maybe this was what was meant. I appreciate Chester is popular, but it is not my kind of place anymore - I'm still a member though (20 1/2 years now).

Clin Keeling's comments, of course, were about the founder of Southport who also founded a now very successful place in the south-east. It was when writing about St Asaph that he alluded to a future owner of Southport, but we'd better not go into that as he didn't mention the person by name.

I must admit the first time I visited Southport I was rather taken aback by the number of Mandrills in a not particularly large cage, but it was not long after this the new one was built.

Bring back small seaside zoos! (Not Scarborough though.) At least we have one in Bridlington - come this way to see what are believed to be the oldest breeding Humboldt's Penguins in the country!
 
zoogiraffe said:
Yes we all know which zoo you would have wanted to close,its the progressive one that moved away from keeping animals,in chains and small cages era that you so addore!
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If I hadn't resolved to be less controversial this year I'd say yes, I do like proper zoos!:D
 
As a Yorkshire man, did you ever visit the zoo at Knaresborough?, if so what was your opinion of it?, and also regarding your great love of zoological"nostalgia", do you recall a collection which you wax lyrical about in its previous years being in danger of having its zoo licence revoked?, I'll be nostalgic now, let me see, Oh yes, an orang being kept in a small enclosure with only a baldy tyre for company, those were the days my friend, I thought they'd never end, thank heavens for changing attitudes!
 
I visited Knaresborough two or three times as a child and once as an adult. The final visit (as closure loomed) was the only time I have not felt safe in a zoo, although the Lions were perhaps too decrepit to jump their very low fence. From a childhood visit I do remember a Puma behind what looked like chicken wire, but must have been at least a little bit stronger. I'll not pretend Knaresborough was a great zoo.

I presume you are referring to Flamingo Land re the Orang, and I'd agree the accommodation was not great. It featured, of course, in the "Yorkshire Post" critique of the county's zoos in 1984 (I have the scrapbook with the articles in two feet to my left). At one time the group of Raccoon Dogs was kept in what was usually the indoor Orang accommodation and I never thought much of that - but at least it gave me the chance to see some Raccoon Dogs (sorry Raccoon Dogs). Nothing, though, will stop me waxing lyrical about the Flamingo Park of the 1960s, although I have to say that whilst watching films of the original Dolphin pools I am struck by how small they were, which is something I did not realise at the time being but a small child myself (on the other hand F P was pioneering British Dolphin keeping and there was a lot to learn, not that that was of much use to the early inhabitants that did not live long). No, on balance I'll stick with the 1960s and the early 1970s. To be honest, much as I realise times change, I just can't understand why they do (in any sphere of life, not just zoos) and I long to go back 40 or so years! Where zoos are concerned I have never understood why the media and apparently a good section of the population think that being a member of the acting profession qualifies someone to pontificate on animal husbandry - I cannot count the times I fumed at newspaper articles in the 1980s and 1990s (I still do when I open a particular Sunday paper, mind you I keep buying it). Anyway I am rambling a bit now so I'll go to bed before tears of rain run down my window pane.
 
zoogiraffe said:
Well in that case I'm glad my idea of what is a proper zoo,is so very different to your's!
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Well, I don't think ALL animals should be kept in chains! No parrots with leg-chains thank-you very much, only the chance to return to the Elephant House at Flamingo Park circa 1970 - and they weren't shackled all of the time (a confession, in 1985 I wrote to the local paper criticising the shackling of the Elephants at a circus performing in the town! Some years later another circus came, it had two Asiatics and an African, and they were given the run of the site for most of the day as well as being taken down to the beach each afternoon for a swim - the circus was here for a summer season - and no one could deny those Elephants had a better time of it).

I'm definitely going to bed now - and I'm strengthening my resolution!!
 
Parrotsandrew said:
To be honest, much as I realise times change, I just can't understand why they do (in any sphere of life, not just zoos)
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Simple, because without change things cannot improve. Whilst all changes are not improvments all improvements are a result of change. I'm sure you'd be grateful of changes in medicine if you suffered any serious ailment and changes in safety improvments if you were involved in a transport accident. Also, the zoos of your idealised '60's and 70's only came about due to preceding changes in husbandry and exhibition. It would be hypocritical to embrace a situation brought about by past changes and begrudge people trying to change the present for the better.

Parrotsandrew said:
I cannot count the times I fumed at newspaper articles in the 1980s and 1990s (I still do when I open a particular Sunday paper, mind you I keep buying it).
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Knowing your enemy is one thing, but funding it is absurd. Flick through it in the shop, get disgruntled and walk away.:)
 
Parrotsandrew said:
Well, I don't think ALL animals should be kept in chains! No parrots with leg-chains thank-you very much, only the chance to return to the Elephant House at Flamingo Park circa 1970 - and they weren't shackled all of the time (a confession, in 1985 I wrote to the local paper criticising the shackling of the Elephants at a circus performing in the town! Some years later another circus came, it had two Asiatics and an African, and they were given the run of the site for most of the day as well as being taken down to the beach each afternoon for a swim - the circus was here for a summer season - and no one could deny those Elephants had a better time of it).

I'm definitely going to bed now - and I'm strengthening my resolution!!
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I would like now to indulge in a bit of nostalgia. The circus you mention with the elephants(two Asian, one African) that were taken to the beach and given the run of the site, this was Gerry Cottle's Circus, which played Bridlington in the summer of 1991. The trainer was Marcell Peters and the elephants were Susi and Jenny(Asian) and Bully (African), I visited the show myself that year at Bridlington, I understand that all three elephants are still alive and well. Regarding the circus which was at Bridlington in 1985 that you wrote to the paper about complaining about the elephants being chained up, I also know which circus this was,of the five Asian cow elephants that were on the show that year, four are now dead, the fifth was re homed last year at a well known safari park:)
 
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