Mixed species exhibit ideas

[Paul.Haerle]

I h

ave seen caockatoos with similar birds, mixed no problem, it is mroe about breeding the smaller birds

German bird breeders sometimes say about such mixes: "Krummschnäbel und Spitzschnäbel sollte man nicht zusammenhalten", which means (in English): You shouldn't mix parrots (there are still some exceptions like lorikeets, hanging parrots and the Neophema species) and songbirds.
And as cockatoos killed Budgeriars I wouldn't say mixing cockatoos with smaller birds is no problem.
And breeding is a problem too.

 

[Wisp O' Mist]

Any thoughts on keeping Gemsbok with Bongo and Okapi in a 30 acres safari park exhibit or with Bison and Elk in the same kind of exhibit?

Gemsbok are desert creatures, Bongos and Okapi live in forests. Why do you even want to mix species with such different habitat needs in the first place? None of these animals even have overlapping ranges in the wild!

Assuming that by "bongos" you're referring to the Eastern/Mountain Bongo, not the Western/Lowland Bongo. I know that the AZA works with Mountain Bongos, not Lowland Bongos. I'm not even sure that Lowland Bongos are even available in the US.

Why would you even consider mixing African ungulates with American ungulates in the first place? You'll want to stick to geographically accurate mixes if you want to be taken seriously.

 

[Cody Raney]

Gemsbok are desert creatures, Bongos and Okapi live in forests. Why do you even want to mix species with such different habitat needs in the first place? None of these animals even have overlapping ranges in the wild!

Assuming that by "bongos" you're referring to the Eastern/Mountain Bongo, not the Western/Lowland Bongo. I know that the AZA works with Mountain Bongos, not Lowland Bongos. I'm not even sure that Lowland Bongos are even available in the US.

Why would you even consider mixing African ungulates with American ungulates in the first place? You'll want to stick to geographically accurate mixes if you want to be taken seriously.

The Gemsbok with the Bison and Elk would be a lesson on invasive species because of the about 3,000 Gemsbok that are now running wild in New Mexico with ever increasing number. The Bongo and Okapi idea was to represent Central Africa and the Gemsbok were a stand in for Scimitar Oryx which I'm hesitant to have in a park because of how fragile and easily broken their horns are and for me the whole point of keeping Scimitar Oryx is to be a part of reinstruction programs to their native habitats, and in my mind an Oryx with broken horns would have difficulty in the wild and I thought Scimitar Oryx were best left to those with more experience than I.

 

[wild boar]

It applies to all toucans - Ramphastos are the biggest threats, but all toucan species are not above killing (and particularly for larger species, eating) nestlings. This primarily occurs with species notably smaller than the toucans, ie tanagers and small cotingas, but it is worth being wary. Andean Cock-of-the-Rocks are not always innocent either when it comes to small birds.

Would it be illogical to maintain a few tanagers with plate-billed mountain toucans and cock-of-the-rocks then?

And Andean geese can be pretty aggressive, but would this only be problematic for other ground-dwelling species? Cock-of-the-rocks, tanagers, and the mountain toucans, as far more arboreal species, seem like they could work in an enclosure with the geese.

The parrots and jays would likely overwhelm and stress out the Burrowing Owls.
Parrot/Roadrunner/Jay could probably work, although breeding would likely be difficult to manage due to the jays.

Removing the magpie-jays and either the owls or the parrots, could this mix work if curve-billed thrashers, green jays, plain chachalacas, and either Gambel's or Montezuma quail (or both) were added?

I apologize for bringing up responses from a year-and-a-half ago. They answered my questions at the time, but they recently prompted these follow-ups.

The Gemsbok with the Bison and Elk would be a lesson on invasive species because of the about 3,000 Gemsbok that are now running wild in New Mexico with ever increasing number. The Bongo and Okapi idea was to represent Central Africa and the Gemsbok were a stand in for Scimitar Oryx which I'm hesitant to have in a park because of how fragile and easily broken their horns are and for me the whole point of keeping Scimitar Oryx is to be a part of reinstruction programs to their native habitats, and in my mind an Oryx with broken horns would have difficulty in the wild and I thought Scimitar Oryx were best left to those with more experience than I.

Gemsbok can be very aggressive. Mixing okapi and other large hoofstock species can end badly for the other species.

 

[Wisp O' Mist]

The Gemsbok with the Bison and Elk would be a lesson on invasive species because of the about 3,000 Gemsbok that are now running wild in New Mexico with ever increasing number.

Why are you even dipping your toes into educating the public on a little known invasive population when you don't even have a safari park yet?

Would your park even be located in New Mexico??? Because I would assume that kind of educational opportunity would be most relevant to to residents of New Mexico.

Furthermore, why do a living "representation" when you could just do an educational display by the Gemsbok enclosure?

The Bongo and Okapi idea was to represent Central Africa

And as I just pointed out to you, the subspecies of Bongo available in the US isn't the one that lives in Central Africa. Mountain Bongos live in Eastern Africa, particularly around Mount Kenya.

Gemsbok were a stand in for Scimitar Oryx

You shouldn't even be considering having species "stand-in" for others unless the species that you actually want (IE: Gemsbok for Scimitars, just to use your own example) isn't available.

I'm hesitant to have in a park because of how fragile and easily broken their horns are

and I thought Scimitar Oryx were best left to those with more experience than I.

Look, I'm glad to hear that you're at least taking these kinds of things into account.

and in my mind an Oryx with broken horns would have difficulty in the wild

But this strikes me as being a bit silly considering you could just... not use Scimitars with broken horns in reintroduction projects. You could use their offspring instead.

 

[Paul.Haerle]

Would it be illogical to maintain a few tanagers with plate-billed mountain toucans and cock-of-the-rocks then?

If it’s an aviary, it would be better for the tanagers if they had their own aviary, as the toucans and cock-of-the-rocks could stress them, but if you put them in a greenhouse it could work.

Removing the magpie-jays and either the owls or the parrots, could this mix work if curve-billed thrashers, green jays, plain chachalacas, and either Gambel's or Montezuma quail (or both) were added?

I don’t think one of this bird species could be added to this mix (we still talk about Thick-billed Parrot, Burrowing Owl and Greater Roadrunner?)
As we talk about many agressive species I would do it the following way :
Black-throated Magpie-jay, Greater Roadrunner and Burrowing Owl
Green Jay and Plains Chachalaca
Montezuma or Gambel’s Quail and Curve-billed Thrasher
Montezuma or Gambel‘s Quail and Thick-billed Parrot

 

[Mr Gharial]

Would your park even be located in New Mexico??? Because I would assume that kind of educational opportunity would be most relevant to to residents of New Mexico.

Furthermore, why do a living "representation" when you could just do an educational display by the Gemsbok enclosure?

I don't think that's illogical at all. Having the species together and having that educational addition is actually quite nice. And it really doesn't matter if you're in the area of the invasive species to have education on the invasive species. You can do education on dromedaries being invasive in Australia in a zoo outside of Australia. What a silly sentiment.

And as I just pointed out to you, the subspecies of Bongo available in the US isn't the one that lives in Central Africa. Mountain Bongos live in Eastern Africa, particularly around Mount Kenya.

You shouldn't even be considering having species "stand-in" for others unless the species that you actually want (IE: Gemsbok for Scimitars, just to use your own example) isn't available.

Well, these two arguments cancel each other out. I've seen multiple zoos use Eastern bongo's in a Central / Tropical African setting as a representation of their lowland subspecies or just species not regarding ssp

 

[Wisp O' Mist]

I don't think that's illogical at all. Having the species together and having that educational addition is actually quite nice. And it really doesn't matter if you're in the area of the invasive species to have education on the invasive species. You can do education on dromedaries being invasive in Australia in a zoo outside of Australia. What a silly sentiment.

I disagree with this sentiment.

Well, these two arguments cancel each other out. I've seen multiple zoos use Eastern bongo's in a Central / Tropical African setting as a representation of their lowland / non-ssp subspecies.

A practice that I vehemently disagree with.

 

[Cody Raney]

I don't think that's illogical at all. Having the species together and having that educational addition is actually quite nice. And it really doesn't matter if you're in the area of the invasive species to have education on the invasive species. You can do education on dromedaries being invasive in Australia in a zoo outside of Australia. What a silly sentiment.



Well, these two arguments cancel each other out. I've seen multiple zoos use Eastern bongo's in a Central / Tropical African setting as a representation of their lowland subspecies or just species not regarding ssp

Thank you.

 

[Cody Raney]

How about Gelada with Ankole-Watusi? Woburn Safari Park keep Bongo and
Barbary Macaque in the same exhibit and aside from one monkey escaping in 2017 I don't know of any incidents. It's been my experience that Ankole-Watusi are docile, and calm and I thought they wouldn't be as aggressive to the Gelada as some other ungulates might be.

 

[Mr Gharial]

How about Gelada with Ankole-Watusi? Woburn Safari Park keep Bongo and
Barbary Macaque in the same exhibit and aside from one monkey escaping in 2017 I don't know of any incidents. It's been my experience that Ankole-Watusi are docile, and calm and I thought they wouldn't be as aggressive to the Gelada as some other ungulates might be.

They've been held with Nubian ibexes, so I don't see why Watusi would be an issue. Enclosure design would be the biggest hurdle I think

 

[Cody Raney]

Does anyone know if Madagascar Ibis and Scarlet Ibis can be kept together without hybridizing?

 

[Paul.Haerle]

Does anyone know if Madagascar Ibis and Scarlet Ibis can be kept together without hybridizing?

They can be kept together without hybridizing. It's practiced for example in Burger's Bush and was practiced in Walsrode.

 

[Cody Raney]

They can be kept together without hybridizing. It's practiced for example in Burger's Bush and was practiced in Walsrode.

Thank you.

 

[Wisp O' Mist]

How about Gelada with Ankole-Watusi?

Planning a rare breeds component to your safari park now, eh?

 

[FBBird]

Planning a rare breeds component to your safari park now, eh?

Both grazing species, so more problematic than an ordinary omnivorous primate with a Bovid, like Water Buffalo with Rhesus, which I’ve seen work well

 

[Cody Raney]

Both grazing species, so more problematic than an ordinary omnivorous primate with a Bovid, like Water Buffalo with Rhesus, which I’ve seen work well

Thank you for the suggestion.

 

[Cody Raney]

A large walkthrough free flight aviary with an elevated walkway featuring:
Blue-and-yellow macaw
Military macaw
Scarlet macaw
Hamerkop
Grey crowned crane
American Flamingo
Roseate spoonbill
Golden pheasant
Himalayan monal
Scarlet ibis
Sociable weaver
Madagascar ibis
Greater bird-of-paradise
Indian peafowl
Black-fronted piping guan
Black swan
Mandarin duck
Egyptian goose
Hoatzin
Violet turaco
Pesquet's parrot
Coconut lorikeet
Helmeted guinea fowl

The Macaws would be 3 mated pairs per species to help guard against hybrids. I couldn't find information on whether or not the Golden Pheasant and the Himalayan Monal would create hybrids, they are from two different tribes of Phasianinae. Couldn't get clear answer when it came to the Madagascar Ibis and the Scarlet Ibis either.

 

[Paul.Haerle]

A large walkthrough free flight aviary with an elevated walkway featuring:
Blue-and-yellow macaw
Military macaw
Scarlet macaw
Hamerkop
Grey crowned crane
American Flamingo
Roseate spoonbill
Golden pheasant
Himalayan monal
Scarlet ibis
Sociable weaver
Madagascar ibis
Greater bird-of-paradise
Indian peafowl
Black-fronted piping guan
Black swan
Mandarin duck
Egyptian goose
Hoatzin
Violet turaco
Pesquet's parrot
Coconut lorikeet
Helmeted guinea fowl

The Macaws would be 3 mated pairs per species to help guard against hybrids. I couldn't find information on whether or not the Golden Pheasant and the Himalayan Monal would create hybrids, they are from two different tribes of Phasianinae. Couldn't get clear answer when it came to the Madagascar Ibis and the Scarlet Ibis either.

The macawas would bully the weaver, the turaco, the bird-of-paradise and maybe the lorikeet.
Monals and Golden Pheasants won't create hybrids, but the Himalayan Monal will kill the Golden Pheasant. (Two or more pheasants usually kill each other, there're a few exeptions for example all species of tragopans and peacock-pheasants). I would remove the Himalayan Monal, as they can be very agressive. (Sometimes the male kills the female)
I would also remove the Hoatzin, as there's very less experience with this species.
Egyptian Geese are very agressive and they could kill Mandarin Ducks, Golden Pheasants...
Madagascar Crested Ibis and Scarlet Ibis definitly won't create hybrids.
Otherwise it should work. But in my opinion a very odd aviary

 

[Cody Raney]

The macawas would bully the weaver, the turaco, the bird-of-paradise and maybe the lorikeet.
Monals and Golden Pheasants won't create hybrids, but the Himalayan Monal will kill the Golden Pheasant. (Two or more pheasants usually kill each other, there're a few exeptions for example all species of tragopans and peacock-pheasants). I would remove the Himalayan Monal, as they can be very agressive. (Sometimes the male kills the female)
I would also remove the Hoatzin, as there's very less experience with this species.
Egyptian Geese are very agressive and they could kill Mandarin Ducks, Golden Pheasants...
Madagascar Crested Ibis and Scarlet Ibis definitly won't create hybrids.
Otherwise it should work. But in my opinion a very odd aviary

Thank you for the assessment.