Mixed species exhibit ideas

Seems to be a very interesting thread, so I’ll give it a go:
  1. Baikal Teal, Barrow’s Goldeneye, Dalmatian Pelican, Red-Breasted Goose, White Stork
  2. Diana Monkey, Western Lowland Gorilla
  3. Great Green Macaw, Red-Fronted Macaw
  4. Bar-Headed Goose, Red Panda
  5. African Bush Elephant, Thompson’s Gazelle
  6. Grey-Winged Trumpeter, Linnaeus’s Two-Toed Sloth, Red-Rumped Agouti
 
Paleoarchontas said:
Seems to be a very interesting thread, so I’ll give it a go:
  1. Baikal Teal, Barrow’s Goldeneye, Dalmatian Pelican, Red-Breasted Goose, White Stork
  2. Diana Monkey, Western Lowland Gorilla
  3. Great Green Macaw, Red-Fronted Macaw
  4. Bar-Headed Goose, Red Panda
  5. African Bush Elephant, Thompson’s Gazelle
  6. Grey-Winged Trumpeter, Linnaeus’s Two-Toed Sloth, Red-Rumped Agouti
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For the elephant/gazelle mix just as long as you do not keep the gazelles in the Bull elephant yard (if you’re planning one) and give the gazelles places to hide from their colossal neighbors then I guess it could work.
 
JurassicMax said:
This will work, Artis already has this combination. As long as you have trees/climbing structures that the Diana monkeys can use but the Gorilla's can't, it should work.
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Interestingly I wasn’t aware of ARTIS having already done this, it was actually based on Dublin keeping mangabeys with their gorillas, and I thought it might work with Diana Monkeys because a) from what I can gather they seem to be fairly chill, b) they are one of the most beautiful African primates and c) they are highly endangered, so Conservation reasons.
 
Quick note, they haven't bred yet at Artis I believe so based on that it's not yet proven that this combination is truly beneficial for the diana monkeys. However Ouwehands Rhenen has roloway monkeys with their gorillas and they have actually bred, so it might just be something specific to the Artis group or exhibit that hinders breeding.
 
No 1: Pelicans are likely to eat the Teal, Storks will make short work of any ducklings. Otherwise lovely
No 4: Great visual and geographically appropriate combination. Makes good use of enclosure space, as one species will be up in the trees most of the time, while the other is on the ground or on the water. Only slight issue is whether one objects to the geese being flight restricted. If they are full winged in this enclosure, the top netting needs to be high enough to allow the pandas to get really high up, which they like to do.
 
FBBird said:
No 1: Pelicans are likely to eat the Teal, Storks will make short work of any ducklings. Otherwise lovely
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This is simplifying things a lot. Dalmatian pelicans have been exhibited with quite small ducks in places like Blijdorp and Walsrode for years with success. When fed often enough the chances of them actually eating the adult ducks seems very slim to nonexistent. Chances are bigger off-course that they would eat ducklings, but the Baikal seal might do this too. The chances of ducklings surviving would depend a lot on wether a water area is inaccessible to the pelicans and Baikal seal. I also don't believe that the ducklings would stand no chance against the storks in a well-designed aviary.
 
Jarne said:
This is simplifying things a lot. Dalmatian pelicans have been exhibited with quite small ducks in places like Blijdorp and Walsrode for years with success. When fed often enough the chances of them actually eating the adult ducks seems very slim to nonexistent. Chances are bigger off-course that they would eat ducklings, but the Baikal seal might do this too. The chances of ducklings surviving would depend a lot on wether a water area is inaccessible to the pelicans and Baikal seal. I also don't believe that the ducklings would stand no chance against the storks in a well-designed aviary.
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Now I’m confused. Did you mean Baikal Teal or Baikal SEAL? The only place I know that had very small ducks in with Dalmatian Pelicans, now only has the Pelicans. You would have to be mad to keep any Pinniped with birds.
 
FBBird said:
Now I’m confused. Did you mean Baikal Teal or Baikal SEAL? The only place I know that had very small ducks in with Dalmatian Pelicans, now only has the Pelicans. You would have to be mad to keep any Pinniped with birds.
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I was talking about the Baikal Teal, Sibirionetta formosa, not the seal.
 
FBBird said:
Now I’m confused. Did you mean Baikal Teal or Baikal SEAL? The only place I know that had very small ducks in with Dalmatian Pelicans, now only has the Pelicans. You would have to be mad to keep any Pinniped with birds.
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Paleoarchontas said:
I was talking about the Baikal Teal, Sibirionetta formosa, not the seal.
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I realize I've misread that up to this point. B.t.w. in Ouwehands they have an aviary combining harbor seals with birds like cormorants, cranes, ground hornbills, etc. and in Artis they kept sea lions with penguins and pelicans for a while (without a male sea lion I believe). With small pinnipeds like (female) harbor seals birds might just be possible enclosuremates, though not in a breeding situation unless they only fledge at adult size like cormorants for example. I must also admit that small ducks do seem a bit too risky with any species of pinniped.
 
Jarne said:
I realize I've misread that up to this point. B.t.w. in Ouwehands they have an aviary combining harbor seals with birds like cormorants, cranes, ground hornbills, etc. and in Artis they kept sea lions with penguins and pelicans for a while (without a male sea lion I believe). With small pinnipeds like (female) harbor seals birds might just be possible enclosuremates, though not in a breeding situation unless they only fledge at adult size like cormorants for example.
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Every day’s a schoolday. I’m amazed that any bird/Pinniped exhibit has succeeded. I know of situations where Sealions have eaten their penguin enclosure mates.
 
I'm quite surprised about the sealion/penguin thing as well, wouldn't do it myself as I believe it's a bit too risky. I also think they had eiders with them, but now all birds are gone from the exhibit as they have a male again.

After looking into the size of the baikal seal, I'm not even sure wether ducks (adults only) would be unfeasible actually. Baikal seals only grow up to 1.2 - 1.4 meter and are reported to only eat fish. Any pinniped bigger than that seems a bit too risky for small ducks like goldeneyes and teals in my opinion, as harbor seals have been known to have killed ducks in the wild.
 
Jarne said:
I'm quite surprised about the sealion/penguin thing as well, wouldn't do it myself as I believe it's a bit too risky. I also think they had eiders with them, but now all birds are gone from the exhibit as they have a male again.

After looking into the size of the baikal seal, I'm not even sure wether ducks (adults only) would be unfeasible actually. Baikal seals only grow up to 1.2 - 1.4 meter and are reported to only eat fish. Any pinniped bigger than that seems a bit too risky for small ducks like goldeneyes and teals in my opinion, as harbor seals have been known to have killed ducks in the wild.
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I’m always a bit wary of things that are said to only eat fish. Common Eiders, for example, are supposed to eat shellfish. I’ve seen captive Eiders swallow large Goldfish, Moorhen chicks, and Mallard ducklings. Grey Herons routinely eat ducklings, and have been seen taking adult Teal and we’ll grown rabbits. Individual White Pelicans have been ejected from St James’s Park for eating Tufted Ducks and pigeons, Cormorants will take ducklings.....
 
There's always a risk, but a lot of combinations we see as normal (zebra + hoofstock, giraffe + eland/kudu, gorilla with other primates, ...) are also much more risky then most people realize. It's important to establish wether something is the rare exception (for example a single individual with a certain behavior) or wether it's behavior almost every individual has a realistic chance of doing. For example I know a gorilla that hunted down a monkey, but this was one individual with an uncommon past so not a representation of the vast majority of cases.

The examples you state here are quite different from this situation. The Eider for example normally don't come into contact with moorhen chicks or mallard ducklings in the wild, so when combining these you actually go in blind. On the other hand baikal seal actually coexist with small ducks. Pelicans and herons have been observed to prey on these animals in the wild, so it's not surprising that this could happen in captivity as well. Baikal seal have as far as I know never been observed to eat birds.

Based on what is known about Baikal seals, chances are the general behavior is to leave birds alone and that attacking birds would be more of an individual behavioral disorder than a normal but rare behavior.
 
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Jarne said:
There's always a risk, but a lot of combinations we see as normal (zebra + hoofstock, giraffe + eland/kudu, gorilla with other primates, ...) are also much more risky then most people realize. It's important to establish wether something is the rare exception (for example a single individual with a certain behavior) or wether it's behavior almost every individual has a realistic chance of doing. For example I know a gorilla that hunted down a monkey, but this was one individual with an uncommon past so not a representation of the vast majority of cases.

The examples you state here are quite different from this situation. The Eider for example normally don't come into contact with moorhen chicks or mallard ducklings in the wild, so when combining these you actually go in blind. On the other hand baikal seal actually coexist with small ducks. Pelicans and herons have been observed to prey on these animals in the wild, so it's not surprising that this could happen in captivity as well. Baikal seal have as far as I know never been observed to eat birds.

Based on what is known about Baikal seals, chances are the general behavior is to leave birds alone and that attacking birds would be more of an individual behavioral disorder than a normal but rare behavior.
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Well argued, you’re probably right. I’ve not seen Baikal seals since London Zoo had them, decades ago. Your mention of zebra (with anything!) kind of convinces me. I’ve seen what zebras can do to other species, and to each other. You make some very good points.
 
I know this might be a little debatable but do you think a mix between Chinese Pangolins and Pygmy Slow Lorises could feasibly work?
 
I've allready checked some sources like the AZA mixed ungulate manual, but I'm interested in other peoples thoughts and also possible experiences in these two mixes:

Mix 1:
  • Okapi (Okapia johnstoni) - 0.0.1 (Or 0.0.X, with the duiker having acces to several yards)
  • Yellow-backed duiker (Cephalophus silvicultor) - 1.1.0
Mix 2:
  • Eastern mountain bongo (Tragelaphus eurycerus isaaci) - 2.0.0 or 1.0.0 depending on the intraspecific aggression
  • Yellow-backed duiker (Cephalophus silvicultor) - 1.1.0

A part of each exhibit will only be accessible for the duiker to account for their shy nature. A b.t.s. yard would also be present in both cases to house any duiker with newborns for some time and the okapi yards will have the option to keep out the duiker in case of newborn okapis. I presume sight-barriers are also quite important so large bushes or bamboo would probably be planted in the exhibits to create several subareas. Even when not mixing them this would be important for these forest-dwelling species.

Any thoughts? Anything I forgot to account for?
 
Austin the Sengi said:
I know this might be a little debatable but do you think a mix between Chinese Pangolins and Pygmy Slow Lorises could feasibly work?
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I believe this is being done in Leipzig at the moment. I don't think the mixing itself would pose problems, it's the general care of pangolins that makes this difficult
 
Five large (18 meter by 18 m I think) waterbird aviaries.
First 4 representing a different "biome".
1. Lakes and ponds: Gray-headed Swamphen, White-breasted Waterhen, Common Moorhen, Pheasant-tailed Jacana + Indian Spotbill, Red-crested Pochard, Common Pochard
2. Rivers and streams: Great Egret, BC Night-heron, Indian Pond Heron + White-eyed Duck, Mandarin Duck, Ruddy Shelduck
3. Agricultural Areas: Glossy Ibis, Black-headed Ibis, Cattle Egret + Northern Pintail, Common Teal, Lesser Whistling Duck
4. Coastal Areas: Black-headed Gull, Little Cormorant, Oriental Darter + Common Shelduck, Eurasian Widgeon
Last contains pan-American species:
5. Scarlet Ibis + Wood Duck, White-faced Whistling Duck, Black-bellied Whistling Duck, Blue-winged Teal
Are there any major infighting or hybridising risks (except teal+pintail of course)?
 
Here are some of my ideas:

1.Reticulated Giraffe, Plains Zebra, Common Ostrich, Blue Wildebeest, Sable Antelope, Helmeted Guineafowl, Thomson Gazelle, East African Crowned Crane (Has Creep holes in exhibit )

2.American Bison, Pronghorn, American Elk

3.Indian Rhino, Gaur, Nilgai, Blackbuck, Barashinga

4.Brazillian Tapir, Capybara, Greater Rhea, Giant Anteater

5.Scarlet Macaw, Blue-and-yellow Macaw, Military Macaw, Toco Toucan, Green Iguana, Common Squirrel Monkey
 
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