Mixed species exhibit ideas

Say I do want to go for the Elephant Odyssey/North American Pleistocene angle:
-Bactrian camel
-Przewalski's horse
-American bison
-Pronghorn
The common area would be at least 2 acres to allow all species to display natural behaviors like grazing, and avoid territorial conflicts. What could go wrong?
 
La Cucaracha said:
This Central Asia mix idea for zoos in cold climates has been on my mind a lot lately, but I'm not sure how they'd do all together:
-Takin
-Goitered gazelle
-Przewalski's horse and/or Onager
-Bactrian camel
-Yak
But could other cold-hardy animals like vicuña comfortably cohabitate with those species?
I'm not married to zoogeography for this mix since the important thing is species that are well suited for hot summers and freezing winters.
I love giraffes, but I think African hoofstock is overrepresented at zoos in cold climates.
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Great Argus said:
Takin and Yak aren't the best choice for hot summers. The gazelles would probably be taken out pretty quickly.
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Zoos here in the upper Midwest appear to keep Sichuan Takin and Domestic Yak outdoor year-round.
 
La Cucaracha said:
Say I do want to go for the Elephant Odyssey/North American Pleistocene angle:
-Bactrian camel
-Przewalski's horse
-American bison
-Pronghorn
The common area would be at least 2 acres to allow all species to display natural behaviors like grazing, and avoid territorial conflicts. What could go wrong?
Click to expand...
I really like this idea and who knows maybe if I were to build a zoo I would use these same animals in a mixed species exhibit but I would add in the fallow deer and even though fallow deer are not native to North America I would have them in the exhibit to represent their giant extinct close relative the Irish elk aka Megaloceras which walked across the continent of North America during the Pleistocene epoch.
 
I also had a similar idea for a North American Pleistocene exhibit!

My animals were:

Przewalski's horse (As a proxy for Equus lambei - AKA the Yukon horse.)

Persian Onager (As a proxy for the Haringtonhippus - AKA Stilt-legged horses.)

American Bison (As a proxy for Bison occidentalis.)

Bactrian Camel (As a proxy for the Camelops - AKA Western/Yesterday's Camel.)

&

Guanaco (As a proxy for the Palaeolama - AKA "Ancient Llama.")
 
Wisp O' Mist said:
I also had a similar idea for a North American Pleistocene exhibit!

My animals were:

Przewalski's horse (As a proxy for Equus lambei - AKA the Yukon horse.)

Persian Onager (As a proxy for the Haringtonhippus - AKA Stilt-legged horses.)

American Bison (As a proxy for Bison occidentalis.)

Bactrian Camel (As a proxy for the Camelops - AKA Western/Yesterday's Camel.)

&

Guanaco (As a proxy for the Palaeolama - AKA "Ancient Llama.")
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I've also considered guanaco for a Palaeolama proxy, but they're really one third the size of their extinct relative. Dromedary camels might be a better choice.
 
La Cucaracha said:
I've also considered guanaco for a Palaeolama proxy, but they're really one third the size of their extinct relative. Dromedary camels might be a better choice.
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I prefer Guanaco as the Palaeolama proxy because they're presumably closer related to them than Dromedary camels are. Plus I wanted a representative of the South American lineage of the Camel family too.

Not to mention, Palaeolama are estimated to have weighed anywhere from 440 to 660 lbs.

Guanaco range from 200 to 310 lbs.

Meanwhile Dromedary camel weight can vary a lot. I've seen 660 to 1,190 lbs for females and 880 to 1,520 lbs for males!

So while there are Dromedary camels that technically meet Palaeolama weight requirements, they'd have to be limited to the smallest of females. And they'd still be right on the edge of being too big.

Since the majority of modern day relatives of Pleistocene animals are smaller (And in some cases, much smaller) then their extinct ancestors, I'd rather stick with animals that are "too small" rather than "too big".
 
Wisp O' Mist said:
I prefer Guanaco as the Palaeolama proxy because they're presumably closer related to them than Dromedary camels are. Plus I wanted a representative of the South American lineage of the Camel family too.

Not to mention, Palaeolama are estimated to have weighed anywhere from 440 to 660 lbs.

Guanaco range from 200 to 310 lbs.

Meanwhile Dromedary camel weight can vary a lot. I've seen 660 to 1,190 lbs for females and 880 to 1,520 lbs for males!

So while there are Dromedary camels that technically meet Palaeolama weight requirements, they'd have to be limited to the smallest of females. And they'd still be right on the edge of being too big.

Since the majority of modern day relatives of Pleistocene animals are smaller (And in some cases, much smaller) then their extinct ancestors, I'd rather stick with animals that are "too small" rather than "too big".
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Fair enough, but that brings back the question about if they should be coexhibited with equines, bison, and/or larger camels. Guanacos are fast runners, but that's about all the defenses they have compared to those other species.

Tigeanderson said:
I really like this idea and who knows maybe if I were to build a zoo I would use these same animals in a mixed species exhibit but I would add in the fallow deer and even though fallow deer are not native to North America I would have them in the exhibit to represent their giant extinct close relative the Irish elk aka Megaloceras which walked across the continent of North America during the Pleistocene epoch.
Click to expand...

We did not have Megaloceros in North America, but we did have Cervalces which is similar. I've thought of proxies for this myself and might recommend the eland.
 
La Cucaracha said:
Fair enough, but that brings back the question about if they should be coexhibited with equines, bison, and/or larger camels. Guanacos are fast runners, but that's about all the defenses they have compared to those other species.
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Admittedly, I was envisioning more of a drive-thru safari park set-up for this idea as opposed to a traditional zoo exhibit. Acres upon acres of space, allowing the animals to spread out across the habitat and thus be able get away from one another? I don't foresee this mixture being a problem.
 
Wisp O' Mist said:
Admittedly, I was envisioning more of a drive-thru safari park set-up for this idea as opposed to a traditional zoo exhibit. Acres upon acres of space, allowing the animals to spread out across the habitat and thus be able get away from one another? I don't foresee this mixture being a problem.
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I've had this idea myself as well. I'd also like to add trees like honey locust, hawthorn, and Hercules' club which are considered evolutionary anachronisms in association with extinct megafauna but would also be resistant to zoo herbivore damage because of their thorns.

I have some concerns over species like guanacos and pronghorn being able to compete for feed or hay with larger animals, and that different species of equine may hybridize, if not fenced separately. Guests will also complain if an animal is too far away to be seen well.
 
La Cucaracha said:
Say I do want to go for the Elephant Odyssey/North American Pleistocene angle:
-Bactrian camel
-Przewalski's horse
-American bison
-Pronghorn
The common area would be at least 2 acres to allow all species to display natural behaviors like grazing, and avoid territorial conflicts. What could go wrong?
Click to expand...
I think that Pronghorns are quite flighty and difficult to maintain with larger hoofstock.
I don't know their husbandry (as they are totally absent in European zoos) but it seems to be close to the cases of the Gazelles of the Old World, and even to the Saiga that meet the same problems.
The climate seems to be a difficulty too : we should avoid the wet countries, but the Pronghorns are more fit to dry places (either cold or hot).
However it looks possible to maintain Pronghorns with Camelids, Bisons and other large hoofstock as it seems to exist in America.
At least we must have separate enclosures for these animals, even more if they breed.
 
Haliaeetus said:
I think that Pronghorns are quite flighty and difficult to maintain with larger hoofstock.
I don't know their husbandry (as they are totally absent in European zoos) but it seems to be close to the cases of the Gazelles of the Old World, and even to the Saiga that meet the same problems.
The climate seems to be a difficulty too : we should avoid the wet countries, but the Pronghorns are more fit to dry places (either cold or hot).
However it looks possible to maintain Pronghorns with Camelids, Bisons and other large hoofstock as it seems to exist in America.
At least we must have separate enclosures for these animals, even more if they breed.
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I think exhibiting camelids and equines with native wildlife is the best opportunity for North American zoos to teach that the former evolved there and was present until the early Holocene. But better yet might be showing how these animals all evolved under the same conditions but in different continents.
 
La Cucaracha said:
I have some concerns over species like guanacos and pronghorn being able to compete for feed or hay with larger animals, and that different species of equine may hybridize, if not fenced separately. Guests will also complain if an animal is too far away to be seen well.
Click to expand...

My Pleistocene exhibit idea didn't include Pronghorns, but I wouldn't be opposed to adding them in.

I'm also an equestrian, so I have a solution to the "Won't the bigger animals compete with the Guanacos and Pronghorn for feed/hay?" problem. Horses can be bullies when it comes to sharing feed/hay, so the typical solution to that problem within the equestrian community is to feed separately. Either remove the problem animals or have separate designated feeding areas for each animal. (Or group of animals in this case.) Alternatively, another thing one can do is spread the feed/hay far and wide around the habitat. Have a hay feeder/feed trough here, there, everywhere! The idea is to allow everyone a safe space to feed. The bullies can't be everywhere at once after all.

Przewalski's horses and Persian Onagers absolutely will hybridize with other equines... and with each other, they aren't picky lol. The solution would be to house the stallions/jacks away from the mares/jennets. Bring their brides-to-be to them whenever you want to breed, leave them with the boys for a few heat cycles (Hopefully witnessing several successful breeding sessions along the way), confirm pregnancy and return to exhibit. So only ladies are actually allowed on habitat, they'd foal out there, raise their young and the male offspring would be removed at dispersal age.

Most problems with mixed-species exhibits with an equine component appear to stem from the males acting aggressively with the other animals. So by having no males on exhibit, that should largely eliminate that problem.

Drive-thru safari parks aren't like traditional zoos, whether guests can see an animal or not every time they go around isn't much of a factor. It's all just a game of chance.
 
birdsandbats said:
Zoos here in the upper Midwest appear to keep Sichuan Takin and Domestic Yak outdoor year-round.
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Yeah but it doesn't mean the animals need options to cool down. AZA states cooling options are a must above 95F for Takin; and it was recently mentioned elsewhere on the site about the various cooling options used for them during the summer in more southernly facilities.

Wisp O' Mist said:
Most problems with mixed-species exhibits with an equine component appear to stem from the males acting aggressively with the other animals. So by having no males on exhibit, that should largely eliminate that problem.
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Female equids are often equally problematic in mixed species exhibits, per what I've heard and read. Not having breeding groups on exhibit helps quite a bit, but it doesn't eliminate aggression by any means typically.
 
Great Argus said:
Yeah but it doesn't mean the animals need options to cool down. AZA states cooling options are a must above 95F for Takin; and it was recently mentioned elsewhere on the site about the various cooling options used for them during the summer in more southernly facilities.



Female equids are often equally problematic in mixed species exhibits, per what I've heard and read. Not having breeding groups on exhibit helps quite a bit, but it doesn't eliminate aggression by any means typically.
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I'm aware the AZA recommends cooling options for takin in temperatures above 95 Fahrenheit. However, that is still a very high threshold! Especially compared to animals like musk ox, or moose.
A simple shade under a tree can be as much as 20 degrees Fahrenheit cooler.

Wisp O' Mist said:
My Pleistocene exhibit idea didn't include Pronghorns, but I wouldn't be opposed to adding them in.

I'm also an equestrian, so I have a solution to the "Won't the bigger animals compete with the Guanacos and Pronghorn for feed/hay?" problem. Horses can be bullies when it comes to sharing feed/hay, so the typical solution to that problem within the equestrian community is to feed separately. Either remove the problem animals or have separate designated feeding areas for each animal. (Or group of animals in this case.) Alternatively, another thing one can do is spread the feed/hay far and wide around the habitat. Have a hay feeder/feed trough here, there, everywhere! The idea is to allow everyone a safe space to feed. The bullies can't be everywhere at once after all.

Przewalski's horses and Persian Onagers absolutely will hybridize with other equines... and with each other, they aren't picky lol. The solution would be to house the stallions/jacks away from the mares/jennets. Bring their brides-to-be to them whenever you want to breed, leave them with the boys for a few heat cycles (Hopefully witnessing several successful breeding sessions along the way), confirm pregnancy and return to exhibit. So only ladies are actually allowed on habitat, they'd foal out there, raise their young and the male offspring would be removed at dispersal age.

Most problems with mixed-species exhibits with an equine component appear to stem from the males acting aggressively with the other animals. So by having no males on exhibit, that should largely eliminate that problem.

Drive-thru safari parks aren't like traditional zoos, whether guests can see an animal or not every time they go around isn't much of a factor. It's all just a game of chance.
Click to expand...

Since you are also an equestrian, you already know how aggressive solitary kept stallions can become. Equines are such social animals, horses and donkeys in solitary circumstances are often given a livestock companion to help enrich them.

This breeding regime would be more appropriate for some species of equine like the Grevy's zebra which only come together for breeding, but the basic social group of Przewalski's horse is a harem, and then bachelor bands.

Unlike ruminants, horses have a single hoof that does not roll or splay on impact, as well as upper incisors. Given Darwin's theory of evolution, they have little to no motivation for play nice with other herbivores.
I think one of the best solutions for coexhibiting equines, wild or domestic, is to house them with equally large or maybe bigger animals. If they had to be kept with smaller species, maybe spread feed farther apart.
 
Also while the thing I appreciate about mixed species and rotating species is that it's never the same again, I do think some consideration for visually impaired individuals is due.
 
Great Argus said:
One male of each species would reduce the risk of fights significantly. Species involved should be fine for the most part.
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Yes that's totally right. I even think that zero male rhinos in that mixed-species exhibit would be best because they might be a little too aggressive. Two male rhinos would certainly not be recommended in an exhibit with multiple other species as well.
 
Nile Hippo Expert said:
Yes that's totally right. I even think that zero male rhinos in that mixed-species exhibit would be best because they might be a little too aggressive. Two male rhinos would certainly not be recommended in an exhibit with multiple other species as well.
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Male White Rhino have been successfully mixed with other hoofstock in numerous situations, there generally isn't an issue. I'm more concerned about the male Ostrich in terms of troublemakers.
 
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