Mixed species exhibit with Chimpanzees?

[Zoofan15]

Thanks for sharing !

So none of the jackal killing chimps is still around.

A question, do you think if the gorilla had been introduced to a troop of chimpanzees to whose social behaviour she had been imprinted to instead of her own species she would have been integrated and accepted?

Nope! The younger three females I mentioned were just infants and I doubt it was Spitter, who was a prime aged female at the time. She was tough but highly maternal to infants (even those of other females).

It’s hard to say. I doubt through virtue of being a different species, she would have perfected their behaviour enough to be recognised as one of them; but her size alone would have shielded her from aggression. I’d say accepted, yes; integrated (socially), no.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

It’s hard to say. I doubt through virtue of being a different species, she would have perfected their behaviour enough to be recognised as one of them; but her size alone would have shielded her from aggression. I’d say accepted, yes; integrated (socially), no.

I see, that is really interesting.

Certainly I think she would have been physically strong enough to handle herself against a chimp.

But its quite a tragic story though don't you think ?

I mean she was essentially caught between the two species because of that early behavioural imprinting and doomed to never being fully socially accepted by either.

Of course it is very objectively interesting from an ethological / primatological perspective but very ethically troubling and moving too.

 

[Zoofan15]

I see, that is really interesting.

Certainly I think she would have been physically strong enough to handle herself against a chimp.

But its quite a tragic story though don't you think ?

I mean she was essentially caught between the two species because of that early behavioural imprinting and doomed to never being fully socially accepted by either.

Of course it is very objectively interesting from an ethological / primatological perspective but very ethically troubling and moving too.

It’s a very tragic story, where a lot of it came down to luck. She lived with three silverbacks that tolerated her deficiencies; two that didn’t. Her daughter now lives at Taronga on the fringes of their troop. She’s uncomfortable around the silverback and on contraception to prevent him from attempting to breed with her.

Having seen the lifelong effects handraising has had on chimps within the region, I can at least understand the refusal of zoos in the region to hand rear rejected offspring.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

It’s a very tragic story, where a lot of it came down to luck. She lived with three silverbacks that tolerated her deficiencies; two that didn’t. Her daughter now lives at Taronga on the fringes of their troop. She’s uncomfortable around the silverback and on contraception to prevent him from attempting to breed with her.

Having seen the lifelong effects handraising has had on chimps within the region, I can at least understand the refusal of zoos in the region to hand rear rejected offspring.

It just goes to show how socially and behaviourally complex these great apes are and how profound the impacts of early behavioural printing can be on their lives.

Why does the daughter behave this way ? do you know ?

So I take it that zoos in the region euthanize rejected offspring ?

 

[Zoofan15]

It just goes to show how socially and behaviourally complex these great apes are and how profound the impacts of early behavioural printing can be on their lives.

Why does the daughter behave this way ? do you know ?

So I take it that zoos in the region euthanize rejected offspring ?

She was peer raised (Melbourne Zoo had three infants born around the same time), with the infants rejoining the troop full time around the age of two years. The silverback (Rigo) had had a similar upbringing and wasn’t a typical silverback. He rarely mated with females and one of the females ran the show. The combination of these factors contributed to her adult behaviour.

Yes, Taronga and Wellington Zoo have both done this. According to a research article online, Sally at Wellington rejected a newborn infant in 2005 after suffering a prolapsed uterus. The infant was euthanised the next day.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

She was peer raised (Melbourne Zoo had three infants born around the same time), with the infants rejoining the troop full time around the age of two years. The silverback (Rigo) had had a similar upbringing and wasn’t a typical silverback. He rarely mated with females and one of the females ran the show. The combination of these factors contributed to her adult behaviour.

Yes, Taronga and Wellington Zoo have both done this. According to a research article online, Sally at Wellington rejected a newborn infant in 2005 after suffering a prolapsed uterus. The infant was euthanised the next day.

I see, you know, this is really fascinating on so many levels.

I remember reading a couple of books by Jane Goodall ("In the shadow of man" and "through a window")in my teenage years and reading about the different chimp life histories at Gombe and how early development and experiences shaped / determined their later characters and social positions.

Of course it fascinated me at the time that I read it but I suppose I had forgotten / underappreciated until now with the story of the gorilla just how complex social dynamics of the great apes really is.

The zoos where I have worked have sadly been places where these animals for one reason or another have been kept alone / solitarily and so not the best places to observe social dynamics. Moreover, when I was in university the professors I had who studied chimps in the wild were the worst kind so I guess that didn't help to encourage any interest I might have had for them.

It is eerie / uncanny how the early life experiences of these animals determine the course of their lives in a way not too dissimilar from human beings.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

She was peer raised (Melbourne Zoo had three infants born around the same time), with the infants rejoining the troop full time around the age of two years. The silverback (Rigo) had had a similar upbringing and wasn’t a typical silverback. He rarely mated with females and one of the females ran the show. The combination of these factors contributed to her adult behaviour.

Yes, Taronga and Wellington Zoo have both done this. According to a research article online, Sally at Wellington rejected a newborn infant in 2005 after suffering a prolapsed uterus. The infant was euthanised the next day.

I also have to complement you on your amazing encyclopedic knowledge of the life history of these animals within zoos in your part of the world.

It is very impressive indeed!

 

[Zoofan15]

I also have to complement you on your amazing encyclopedic knowledge of the life history of these animals within zoos in your part of the world.

It is very impressive indeed!

Thank you! I’m a huge fan of the great apes. I know the name, parentage and birth year of every great ape in the region. I often write it all out when I’m at a work conference so it looks like I’m taking notes - and to be fair I am.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

Thank you! I’m a huge fan of the great apes. I know the name, parentage and birth year of every great ape in the region. I often write it all out when I’m at a work conference so it looks like I’m taking notes - and to be fair I am.

It really shows, I think you must study each individual on a very detailed level, I can also understand why because it really is fascinating and enriching.

 

[Zoofan15]

It really shows, I think you must study each individual on a very detailed level, I can also understand why because it really is fascinating and enriching.

I’ll admit I find the parallels between their lives (especially that of the chimpanzees) and that of the human race. Males have different strategies and ambitions for leadership; females have different parenting styles.

Their interactions are so complex and there’s endless possibilities for studies on how their background and life experiences shape their behaviour.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

I’ll admit I find the parallels between their lives (especially that of the chimpanzees) and that of the human race. Males have different strategies and ambitions for leadership; females have different parenting styles.

Their interactions are so complex and there’s endless possibilities for studies on how their background and life experiences shape their behaviour.

Yes, me too, and it is quite humbling and disturbing to contemplate in the sense that early development is so complex and crucial that if somehow damaged or disrupted early on it can have lifelong consequences for these animals as with humans.

 

[Zoofan15]

Yes, me too, and it is quite humbling and disturbing to contemplate in the sense that early development is so complex and crucial that if somehow damaged or disrupted early on it can have lifelong consequences for these animals as with humans.

Absolutely. Even events later in life can have an impact on their behaviour. Sacha (1980) was born to a high ranking female named Spitter (1960), whose status was assisted by her brother (Danny) holding the alpha position for a number of years.

As an adolescent, Sacha was a confident female - the ring leader or the adolescents. She had three offspring and her family’s high ranking continued when Spitter’s son, Gombe, assumed the alpha role in 1999.

In 2001, Gombe unexpectedly died and the eldest male in the troop took over. Sacha bred three times with him, but her older son clashed and Sacha’s family became the target of intimidation campaigns. She’s since developed a fractious demeanour, becoming hysterical when threatened by the males; and clinging to the elderly Spitter for support.

 

[Philipine eagle]

Thanks for sharing !

So none of the jackal killing chimps are still around then.

A question, do you think if the gorilla had been introduced to a troop of chimpanzees to whose social behaviour she had been behaviourally imprinted to instead of her own species she would have been integrated and accepted?

A very interesting question.

More than two decades ago, Antwerp Zoo tried to mix the gorillas with the Hamlyn's owl-faced guenons Cercopithecus hamlyni, an effort with dramatic consequences as the guenons were constantly hunted (and killed) by one of the gorilla's, Amahora.

One of reasons given as an explanation of this behavior was the fact (?) that Amahora has been raised up by chimpansees of whom she has learned hunting other creatures.

I've never found any confirmation of this thesis, neither if she really has been raised up by chimps, nor for the scientific explanation that this learned behavior was the reason for her behavior towards the guenons.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

A very interesting question.

More than two decades ago, Antwerp Zoo tried to mix the gorillas with the Hamlyn's owl-faced guenons Cercopithecus hamlyni, an effort with dramatic consequences as the guenons were constantly hunted (and killed) by one of the gorilla's, Amahora.

One of reasons given as an explanation of this behavior was the fact (?) that Amahora has been raised up by chimpansees of whom she has learned hunting other creatures.

I've never found any confirmation of this thesis, neither if she really has been raised up by chimps, nor for the scientific explanation that this learned behavior was the reason for her behavior towards the guenons.

Wow, my mind has been blown a second time on this thread...

Isn't Amahora the Eastern lowland gorilla ?

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean, so was this gorilla actually kept with chimpanzees ?

 

[Jurek7]

One of Asian zoos has a timeshare grassy exhibit where chimps live at daytime and servals at night. This goes on for a very long time.

Somebody talked about chimps and bonobos. They would hybridize. There were 3 hybrids produced by somebody who raised a tame male bonobo and two female chimps, believing him to be a chimp. These hybrids were healthy, performed in some tv film, and 1-2 may be still alive.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

One of Asian zoos has a timeshare grassy exhibit where chimps live at daytime and servals at night. This goes on for a very long time.

Somebody talked about chimps and bonobos. They would hybridize. There were 3 hybrids produced by somebody who raised a tame male bonobo and two female chimps, believing him to be a chimp. These hybrids were healthy, performed in some tv film, and 1-2 may be still alive.

The first example is not a mixed species exhibit proper though is it ? I mean it is just a rotation exhibit.

Ok, thats quite interesting about the hybrids, purely anthropogenic though as it would never occur in the wild with the geographical barriers of the rivers that separate the species.

 

[Philipine eagle]

Wow, my mind has been blown a second time on this thread...

Isn't Amahora the Eastern lowland gorilla ?

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean, so was this gorilla actually kept with chimpanzees ?

She is indeed the eastern lowland gorilla.

I remember having asked for more detailed information with the zoo. They only confirmed that it was in fact Amahora who hunted the guenons and that they don't have a scientific explanation for her behavior. I haven't kept this mail nor have I asked for more detailed information, but I'm sure that this mail didn't included any real confirmation on the fact that she was indeed raised up with chimps. But this possible explanation has passed here and there a limited number of times.
She is born around 1990, unless anyone has more information on her first years, nothing is certain.

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

She is indeed the eastern lowland gorilla.

I remember having asked for more detailed information with the zoo. They only confirmed that it was in fact Amahora who hunted the guenons and that they don't have a scientific explanation for her behavior. I haven't kept this mail nor have I asked for more detailed information, but I'm sure that this mail didn't included any real confirmation on the fact that she was indeed raised up with chimps. But this possible explanation has passed here and there a limited number of times.
She is born around 1990, unless anyone has more information on her first years, nothing is certain.

I see, I've seen pictures of her in the gallery and she is a very distinctive looking animal indeed.

Ok... again, I am still not understanding where this subject of the gorilla being raised by chimpanzees came from or what exactly you mean by this.

Are you saying that this is a hypothesis of yours or that the zoo actually confirmed that this occurred in this animals early life in the correspondence they exchanged with you ?

Or if not then where did the chimp hypothesis come from ?

 

[Onychorhynchus coronatus]

She is indeed the eastern lowland gorilla.

I remember having asked for more detailed information with the zoo. They only confirmed that it was in fact Amahora who hunted the guenons and that they don't have a scientific explanation for her behavior. I haven't kept this mail nor have I asked for more detailed information, but I'm sure that this mail didn't included any real confirmation on the fact that she was indeed raised up with chimps. But this possible explanation has passed here and there a limited number of times.
She is born around 1990, unless anyone has more information on her first years, nothing is certain.

A while back there was mention on one of the threads by @Pertinax about the situation with mixed species exhibits with gorillas and guenons leading to killings of these monkeys by the apes. He certainly knows his stuff on both gorillas and guenons so would be a good person to participate in this thread.

I think I read a paper somewhere that mentioned it to and of course it is hard to tell but interspecific aggression in mixed species exhibits can be caused by any number of stressors or factors and because great apes are such intelligent and complex animals I wonder whether this behaviour could ever be fully explained.

I asked about "Amahora" recently in a thread because I was struck by how intense her gaze was in a picture of her in the gallery and I don't remember which zoochatter told me this but if I am not mistaken this particular gorilla was an animal rescued from being killed as bushmeat.

This is a bit of a wild hypothesis but perhaps this early traumatic experience during formative / developmental years could have affected this animals behaviour / psyche and could have been another cause of this interspecific aggression within a confined environment of captivity ?

 

[Pertinax]

A while back there was mention on one of the threads by @Pertinax about the situation with mixed species exhibits with gorillas and guenons leading to killings of these monkeys by the apes. He certainly knows his stuff on both gorillas and guenons so would be a good person to participate in this thread.

I think I read a paper somewhere that mentioned it to and of course it is hard to tell but interspecific aggression in mixed species exhibits can be caused by any number of stressors or factors and because great apes are such intelligent and complex animals I wonder whether this behaviour could ever be fully explained.

I asked about "Amahora" recently in a thread because I was struck by how intense her gaze was in a picture of her in the gallery and I don't remember which zoochatter told me this but if I am not mistaken this particular gorilla was an animal rescued from being killed as bushmeat.

This is a bit of a wild hypothesis but perhaps this early traumatic experience during formative / developmental years could have affected this animals behaviour / psyche and could have been another cause of this interspecific aggression within a confined environment of captivity ?

I very much doubt Amohoro at Antwerp was ever 'raised by Chimpanzees'- there might be a possibility she had some Chimpanzee companionship in early captivity in Africa perhaps- but she would never have learned to hunt monkeys that way, she would have had to watch adult chimps hunting. We know other gorillas have killed monkeys in other zoos too, so I think more likely it was just chance if she was the culprit that killed the Antwerp monkeys. I think Valencia had the same mix- gorilla and Hamlyn monkeys at one stage and again it probably failed for similar reasons. Dreadful that rare species like Hamlyn's have been used in these past mixes but hopefully not any more.

I think Amahoro's 'intense' look is more likely just her species' appearance rather than an individual trait resulting from her past background.