Mixed species exhibits #2

@Orycteropus: I think I have to correct You in regard to Salzburg:
-The "combination" still exists, yet the otters are (quite nicely) seperated from the chamois, so that it seems that they are within the same exhibit.
-It wasn't certainly not a "fish intoxification"; most likely, it was rather a severe bacterial infection of the bite wound (maybe with multiresistent Pasteurella multocida...). This's always a problem with fish-eating mammals' bites.

I think I read something about a combination of Eurasian Otter and another mustelid species somewhere; have to look it up.

About the takin-combination You asked at the gallery: see Munich (Mishmi & Reeve's muntjac) and Antwerp (Mishmi & Himalaya Thar).

And thanks to a link at another thread, another example of a mixed-species exhibit with anoas can be mentioned: anoa & siamang, at Point Defiance Zoo. Although, judging from the clip, I wouldn't be surprised if this combination ended all in a sudden when the anoa gets really pissed...;)
YouTube - Monkey riding antelope in zoo
 
Sun Wukong said:
@Orycteropus: I think I have to correct You in regard to Salzburg:
-The "combination" still exists, yet the otters are (quite nicely) seperated from the chamois, so that it seems that they are within the same exhibit.
-It wasn't certainly not a "fish intoxification"; most likely, it was rather a severe bacterial infection of the bite wound (maybe with multiresistent Pasteurella multocida...). This's always a problem with fish-eating mammals' bites.

I think I read something about a combination of Eurasian Otter and another mustelid species somewhere; have to look it up.

About the takin-combination You asked at the gallery: see Munich (Mishmi & Reeve's muntjac) and Antwerp (Mishmi & Himalaya Thar).

And thanks to a link at another thread, another example of a mixed-species exhibit with anoas can be mentioned: anoa & siamang, at Point Defiance Zoo. Although, judging from the clip, I wouldn't be surprised if this combination ended all in a sudden when the anoa gets really pissed...;)
YouTube - Monkey riding antelope in zoo
Click to expand...

I can't help but think that gibbons aren't as suitable for mixed species exhibits as most zoos make them. They are fairly often mixed and yet they seem to be troublemakers by their very nature.

Maybe with orangutans is okay, but I think they tend to bully most other housemates. What other gibbon combos have been used?
 
@ Sun Wukong:
About Your correcting: if the Otters and the Chamois are separated, this is not a mixed-species exhibit, does it? ;)

About the mixing with Takins: yes, I saw the replies on Trebaruna’s gallery earlier … but my question didn’t connect to the locations, I asked about the interactions … but thanks, I don’t know this exhibit at Munich.
I mentioned one unsuccesful mixing with Takins & Muntjacs, You mentioned a quite succesful one … this is an excellent examples of that not the species conception is the only important factor of the mixing, it depends on many and many circumstances …

If You find details about the Eurasian otter and other mustelid species combination, please let me know …
 
Orycteropus said:
About Your correcting: if the Otters and the Chamois are separated, this is not a mixed-species exhibit, is it? ;)
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They are (partly) seperated-but the exhibits are so immersed in each other that potentially the chamois could jump quite easily into the otter exhibit (which they haven't luckily done so far).

The interaction at Munich between Takin & muntjak is marginal; they mainly ignore each other.

Tierpark Görlitz mixes (mixed?) Eurasian Otters and Mute Swans.

@^Chris^: I agree with You on behalf of the gibbons; they can be quite annoying and sometimes even problematic for other species kept together with them. Besides keeping different gibbon species together (not always a good idea re: potential hybridisation/aggression), the most common combinations I have observed are Oriental Small-clawed Otters, various freshwater turtle species, pheasants (Cologne), fish and waterfowl (the latter mainly outdoors). Besides the mentioned Orang-Utans, I think other primates kept together with gibbons were spider-monkeys; the combinations with macaques were quit due to interspecific aggression.
 
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Some other mixing with gibbons which also had been tried already:
Gibbon & Malayan tapir, Bronx Zoo
White-cheeked gibbon & Reeve’s muntjac, Los Angeles Zoo: although the Muntjacs never been seriously injured, but the gibbons always harrassed and poking them, so the species had to be separated.
Gibbons with other primates species: with Douc langurs at Singapore Zoological Gardens, and with Silver langurs, also at Singapore.
And some 'random mixing': Lar gibbon & African crested porcupine, Saarbrücken; Black-crested gibbon & African crested porcupine, Riverbanks Zoological Parks.
 
Has Anyone Ever Tryed Mixing:
- Hippo's, Nile Crocodiles, Egyptian Geese & Several Nile Fish Species

Was Thinking Of What A Nice River Ecosystem It Would Make...
Of Course There Could Be Some Issues But Just Wondering???

I Have Also Heard Of Several Case Of:
Orcas & Bottle-Nosed Dolphins
False Killer Whales & Bottle-Nosed Dolphins (Creating A Hybrid, Wholphins)

Wholphins Are Currently Kept Behind The Scenes At Sea Life Park, Hawaii.
Only 4 Have Existed. The Original Female Born May 15, 1985. Gave Birth To Her First Calf At A Young Age Which Only Survived A Few Days, A 2nd Calf A Female (Pohaikealoha) Was Born In 1991 Living For Only 2 Years She Did Care For It Yet It Was Handreared (Nursed) By Trainers Unfortunatly Pohaikealoha, Dyed At 9 Years. Her Most Recent Female Calf (Kawili'Kai) Born On 23 Of December 2004 Is Healthy & Doing Fine. Mum (Kekaimalu) Appears In A Show For Visitors.
 
Mixing a large, aggressive crocodile species with a large, aggressive mammal that share the same environment and putting prey and natural predator together doesn't sound like a very smart idea-that's why no zoo tried it.

For information about what species (or hybrids) is kept where, the "Which zoo(s) keep(s)"-thread is the better place to post it at.

Out Of Curiosity: Why Do You Start Every Word With A Capital First Letter?
 
It is perhaps worth mentioning how big is each mixed species exhibit.

Antwerp had problems with takin and tahr mix, but the whole exhibit is very small. No wonder animals get into each other nerves - perhaps one species would do it, too.
 
thorney_devil said:
Hippo's, Nile Crocodiles, Egyptian Geese & Several Nile Fish Species
Click to expand...

Cologne zoo is building a house with underwater viewing for them, but crocs and hippos will be separated. Sitatunga should be somehow included, too.

Hippos live with nyala, egyptian geese, some ducks, carp and grass carp fish in Berlin zoo.
 
We also have to mention hippo & ungulates combination at Basel and Dubbo (maybe these were mentioned on this thread).

Haller Park in Mombasa: hippos are together with various kind of birds, monkeys and giant tortoises (and maybe with ungulates) … look at it f.e on the youtube …

And just as a matter of curiosity: I’m not sure in it, but I suspect that Kronberg Zoo had an astounding combination around the 1960s: an elephant & hippo mixing.
 
I've always liked the ideas of hippos mixing, especially with waterbuck or lechwe or sitatunga, but I've always expected that it'd be somewhat problematic in practice. Don't most hippo/antelope combinations have 'antelope only ' areas, blocked by vertical poles that the antelopes can fit through?
 
@^Chris^: Yes, they usually have areas where just the antelopes can go to.
I'm always a bit cautious when it comes to hippo combinations with larger animals; the mentioned example of Basel, with its "friendship" of the zebra stallion and the hippo bull that ended fatally, illustrates this. Same seems to be the case with the pygmy hippo; sometimes, with enough room and the "right individuals", the combinations work, sometimes they don't.

Hippos & elephants-I don't think I could sleep well with such a combination...;)
One of my personal favourites would be a serval-pygmy hippo-bongo bull exhibit (or, if allowed to dream, Zebra Duiker-Pygmy Hippo-Bongo-King Colobus-exhibit...;)), as both the serval-pygmy hippo (Zoo de Fuengirola) and serval-large antelope combi has been tried out without any serious negative results (at least I haven't heard of any).
Fuengirola Zoo
And I wonder whether the combination of pygmy hippo and Talapoins has been tried out before; an underwater viewing area would nicely work for both species.

@Orycteropus: I looked for the otter-other mustelid combination where (I thought) it was supposed to be, but unfortunately couldn't find anything. Let's see whether I accidently stumble upon it in the future...
 
@ Chris:
The San Diego WAP have had lots of species in their East Africa Exhibit in the past, which are the followings: Angolan roan, East African eland, East African sitatunga, Eastern White-bearded gnu, Fringe-eared oryx, Kenya impala, Lake Victoria Defassa waterbuck, Nile lechwe, Roosevelt's gazelle, Slender-horned gazelle, Thomson's gazelle, Topi, Uganda kob, Zambesi lechwe, Baringo giraffe, Cape buffalo, East African Black rhino, Grants' zebra, Grevy's zebra, Northern White rhino, Pygmy hippo. These datas currently pretty outdated, nowadays this combination is changed a lot. But it is worth to mention that the two African rhino species and Pygmy hippos also mixed together, with several ungulates. They had some trouble mixing these pachyderms, the male Black rhino was overly aggressive with the male White. The hippos mostly stayed on an island in the middle of the pond that was in the exhibit. This exhibit is around 35 hectares, so the large space allowed all species to disperse and avoid each other.

There were further attempts f.e to keep black rhinos on a mixed exhibits, but there were some problems with them.

@ Sun Wukong:
Hippos & elephants: I think I also could not sleep well with this mixing …
'Your dream' has been realised, but just partly: Pygmy hippo & and an other duiker species, Red-flanked duiker, Pygmy hippo & Black-and-White Colobus, Pygmy hippo & three primates species (among them Colobuses), Bongo & several duiker species, Bongo & Colobuses, King colobus & duiker combinations also have been tried already …

OK, I'm waiting for the otter-other mustelid combination ... ;)

And about the mixing with small cat species: what do You all think about that?
 
Orycteropus said:
@ Chris:
The San Diego WAP have had lots of species in their East Africa Exhibit in the past, which are the followings: Angolan roan, East African eland, East African sitatunga, Eastern White-bearded gnu, Fringe-eared oryx, Kenya impala, Lake Victoria Defassa waterbuck, Nile lechwe, Roosevelt's gazelle, Slender-horned gazelle, Thomson's gazelle, Topi, Uganda kob, Zambesi lechwe, Baringo giraffe, Cape buffalo, East African Black rhino, Grants' zebra, Grevy's zebra, Northern White rhino, Pygmy hippo. These datas currently pretty outdated, nowadays this combination is changed a lot. But it is worth to mention that the two African rhino species and Pygmy hippos also mixed together, with several ungulates. They had some trouble mixing these pachyderms, the male Black rhino was overly aggressive with the male White. The hippos mostly stayed on an island in the middle of the pond that was in the exhibit. This exhibit is around 35 hectares, so the large space allowed all species to disperse and avoid each other.

There were further attempts f.e to keep black rhinos on a mixed exhibits, but there were some problems with them.

@ Sun Wukong:
Hippos & elephants: I think I also could not sleep well with this mixing …
'Your dream' has been realised, but just partly: Pygmy hippo & and an other duiker species, Red-flanked duiker, Pygmy hippo & Black-and-White Colobus, Pygmy hippo & three primates species (among them Colobuses), Bongo & several duiker species, Bongo & Colobuses, King colobus & duiker combinations also have been tried already …

OK, I'm waiting for the otter-other mustelid combination ... ;)

And about the mixing with small cat species: what do You all think about that?
Click to expand...

Cheers.

Personally, on mixing cats, i'm unsure. For me, it's not enough for the animals to be safe, they've got to feel safe as well. I would imagine that even some large ungulates would feel a little threatened by a small cat, even though there is no danger. This would be particularly true when they have young. I'm sure there are scenarios where it could work, but it's a delicate balance.
 
@Orycteropus: Hey, I know that the pygmy hippo-duiker, bongo & duiker and the Bongo-colobus combi etc. has been tried-otherwise I wouldn't have posted it. But the "Liberia" combination I mentioned hasn't been tried out - yet.;)

About the small cats: it depends. The Brown Bear-lynx combination seemed to have worked in Salzburg in the past. I also mentioned the two serval combinations I know of.
All in all, I think it depends a lot on the husbandry and the individual species involved, even though cats, big or small, are always a risk-factor in a mixed species exhibit.
 
@ Sun Wukong:
About Your "Liberia" combination: very nice and fine collection of the species, really, but if I’m correct You such a man who principally thinking on conservational level, so probably You thought the endangered Eastern subspecies of the Bongo which lives in Kenya … ;)

One of "my Liberia combination" is similar, but not entirely: a Pygmy hippo & King colobus walk-through exhibit, certainly the hippos separated from the visitors, just the Colubus should use the whole area inside (so a visitor pathway inside this exhibit which is not enclosed the monkeys, just the hippos …) maybe added a duiker species, but not absolutely necessary …

About the mixings with cat species: I’m afraid that the Brown bear & Eurasian lynx mixing at Salzburg was not as succesful as You said. One of the two lynx attacked the bears for several times, till one of the bears once had enough. In one of these agressive attacks the lynx was unguarded, came into a dead corner of their enclosure where he couldn’t run for from the bear, so this individual killed by the bear (otherwise the other lynx stayed undisturbed by the bears). This combination has worked for many years after this "accident".
I mentioned a relatively succesful mixed exhibit with Brown bears & Wolverines at Bern Zoo beforehand. Some interesting additive infos for this. At Salzburg, next to the mentioned Brown bear & Eurasian lynx eclosure there was the Wolverine exhibit. Sometimes the Wolverines dug themselves through to this mixed exhibit, so sometimes all these three carnivore species have been observed in the same enclosure.
The Brown bear & Eurasian lynx combi was also planned at Rhenen some years earlier, and currently planned in one Hungarian zoo …

About the mixing with Servals: the possibility to creating a mixed Savanna exhibit with them seems to me more appropriate than the example in Fuengirola …

As You said, the cat species always a risk-factor in a mixed exhibits …

@ Chris:
Your reply is absolutely correct. Not just the physical interactions and injuries should have to take into account: although the given mixing seems to works pretty good, there maybe evidence that one (or both) of the species is/are under stress, and this factor may cause a sort of health problems (except the animal welfare issue from the ethical aspects). However, the monitoring of the stress level of the individuals is not as complicated nowadays as in former times …

And what’s about the further ideas of small cat species?
 
Orycteropus said:
And what’s about the further ideas of small cat species?
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I think it would work with many ungulates much larger than cats. For example bigger antelope, goats, tapirs, wild pigs etc.

Also with a variety of similar-sized predators - otters, foxes, skunks etc.

In both cases, cats should have branches to hide above.

However, small cats are strongly crepuscular and nocturnal. Maybe with exception of a serval. They sleep all day and maybe bask in the sun and cubs play a little. I think ideal would be a switched exhibit with some day-living animal, e.g. monkeys. I imagine the large cage covered with mesh and full of branches and vegetation. It would be occupied by monkeys by day. Cat would have small side exhibit, where it could be discreetely observed sleeping in its den. In the evening, monkeys would go to indoor quarters, and cat would be let outside. In the morning it may be back in its den by itself.
 
I wonder whether the combination of, say, servals or caracals with Syrian Brown Bears would work...

@Jurek7: I think it that a lot You suggested depends a lot on the particular species of the "small cat" and the other species involved. For example, I think that for example the combination of Malayian Tapirs and Rusty-spotted Cats could work. But goats & caracal or wild pigs & bobcat? I would expect a lot of interspecific aggression with fatal outcome for at least one party.

Your plan with the exhibit shared by monkeys & cats might also fail due to possible interspecific aggression, stress and cats showing different activity phasis peaks, with some activity during day-light. Every cat-owner knows an example or two for the latter. Additionally, I think most cats really do enjoy their (occasional) sunbathing (with its importance for the Vitamin D synthesis) or playtime during the day; I wouldn't take that away from them, like some institutions do.
 
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