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Pertinax said:
Still quite a lot of critisism on the gorilla-type Facebook groups about the way this is being handled and the time taken over the introduction, which despite the talk, still hasn't actually started yet...now focused on a recent video which showed GAnne(?) behind a double(?) mesh while 'zookeeper Chad' talked and dandled Kaius, filmed looking completely the other way (!), in his lap. Better to have at least tried to show the two gorillas trying to having some interaction, or at least implying that they did?

Of course GAnne poking sticks through the bars doesn't mean she will show strong interest in the baby when he is-finally- introduced. I hope she does, but alternatively she may be indifferent, only time will tell. But I feel sure she won't harm him, so even if no close bond is established between them, spending maybe just some time each day with her might still be beneficial.
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Zoofan15 said:
Yes, the latest videos are of G-Anne behind a mesh, while Kaius is held nearby. I agree he seems largely oblivious to her in most videos.

I understand a lot of zoos have a non hand-raising policy with regards to great apes due to the lifelong affects on an animal that can live decades. Therefore I know many people were of the opinion Kaius should have been euthansied.

It’s a controversial topic I won’t get too much into (after all, what’s done is done); but Kaius faces an uncertain future. G-Anne isn’t a young animal and could easily pass before he reaches adolescence. He won’t get a recommendation to head up a troop when there’s a global surplus of mother raised males; and even whether another zoo will accept him into their bachelor troop is unknown.

The ideal would be for Mogo to welcome one or more male infants in their breeding troop, that could then join Kaius to form a bachelor troop long term. If he demonstrates he can remain in a cohesive bachelor troop without issue, that troop may well be accepted by a new or existing holder within the region.
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I think it's important to keep in mind G Anne actually never raised her actual offspring, Ganyeka herself; and he was therefore hand raised. She was also deemed the least maternal of all Melbourne's females at the time and showed Ganyeka little to no interest leading to Ganyeka being peer raised with Yakini and Johari and being brought up by keepers with the occasional help of Betsy.

Considering her age and her little experience with offspring since, I doubt this will go any better. At best, G Anne will probably provide Kaius with some form of gorilla companionship but it's probably a reach to say she will take on Kaius and act as his adoptive mother.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Yes, the latest videos are of G-Anne behind a mesh, while Kaius is held nearby. I agree he seems largely oblivious to her in most videos.
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My comment about the mesh was because it seemed 'double' width- so little chance for any real or tactile contact with that scenario. But also all the videos are about Kaius and the keeper- encouraging/developing any interaction with the other gorillas or GAnne in particular, don't feature at all. It seems to be the mindset rather and an odd way to present a trial introduction IMO.
 
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Jambo said:
Considering her age and her little experience with offspring since, I doubt this will go any better. At best, G Anne will probably provide Kaius with some form of gorilla companionship but it's probably a reach to say she will take on Kaius and act as his adoptive mother.
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Agree though the outcome will only be decided when it happens. But I think GAnne is now permanently(?) seperated from the others too so even if she did properly adopt him it wouldn't be a way back into the group for him. But I suspect some 'gorilla companionship' is the best that can be hoped for with her.
 
Pertinax said:
My comment about the mesh was because it seemed 'double' width- so little chance for any real or tactile contact with that scenario. But also all the videos are about Kaius and the keeper- encouraging/developing any interaction with the other gorillas or GAnne in particular, don't feature at all. It seems to be the mindset rather and an odd way to present a trial introduction IMO.
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Yes, it’s double mesh and I agree Kaius is showing no engagement with G-Anne; who is only showing mild interest back. The lag in the introductions has been waiting for Kaius to be developed enough to approach the mesh for feeding.

I don’t believe they’ll be any further progress until they can physically meet face to face. G-Anne is likely loosing interest in something that she can’t even touch (being such a tactile species) and to Kaius, she’s become a null-stimulus. Put them in together and he’ll be encouraged to interact with a member of his species.
Pertinax said:
Agree though the outcome will only be decided when it happens. But I think GAnne is now permanently(?) seperated from the others too so even if she did properly adopt him it wouldn't be a way back into the group for him. But I suspect some 'gorilla companionship' is the best that can be hoped for with her.
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Yes, G-Anne is living seperate from the main troop, so Kaius won’t have the opportunity to witness interactions like a silverback disciplining or mating with females.

From a social perspective, his outlook isn’t great. If Taronga were to phase out gorillas, potentially Johari could join G-Anne and Kaius at Mogo to at least provide him with a chance of long term companionship (it’s obvious Johari will never thrive in a natural troop for similar reasons to Kaius).
 
Zoofan15 said:
Yes, G-Anne is living seperate from the main troop, so Kaius won’t have the opportunity to witness interactions like a silverback disciplining or mating with females.

From a social perspective, his outlook isn’t great. If Taronga were to phase out gorillas, potentially Johari could join G-Anne and Kaius at Mogo to at least provide him with a chance of long term companionship (it’s obvious Johari will never thrive in a natural troop for similar reasons to Kaius).
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I agree re. the best course to be for Johari to potentially arrive to give Kaius companion in the long term once G Anne passes. Being hand raised, I doubt he’ll ever obtain the capable skills to be a silverback and even being apart of a bachelor group could be an issue too.

If Taronga are to phase out gorillas; sending Johari to Mogo will also open the alternative of then sending Mbeli and Frala down to Melbourne to give them new females. I had previously pondered on this thought as Johari wouldn’t be a candidate to send down to Melbourne with them (due to her lack of social skills too); but Mogo presents a far better option for here if the Taronga troop was to be broken up.
 
Zoofan15 said:
The lag in the introductions has been waiting for Kaius to be developed enough to approach the mesh for feeding.

I don’t believe they’ll be any further progress until they can physically meet face to face. G-Anne is likely loosing interest in something that she can’t even touch (being such a tactile species) and to Kaius, she’s become a null-stimulus. Put them in together and he’ll be encouraged to interact with a member of his species.
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A lot of people are commenting on the 'delay' but although I agree with the general critisism about the mindset here, I think some of the detractors don't appreciate it is is due to having to prepare/train him to come over for feeding etc. A lot of them are Americans used to the early fosterings they are becoming increasingly used to over there. But I think Mogo could be doing more in terms of contact even before he is finally tried with her and I'm really getting fed up with all the keeperChad focused publicity. As you said, interest is likely to revive when they do finally meet and have full contact.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Yes, G-Anne is living seperate from the main troop, so Kaius won’t have the opportunity to witness interactions like a silverback disciplining or mating with females.

From a social perspective, his outlook isn’t great. If Taronga were to phase out gorillas, potentially Johari could join G-Anne and Kaius at Mogo to at least provide him with a chance of long term companionship (it’s obvious Johari will never thrive in a natural troop for similar reasons to Kaius).
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All isn't lost if he can transfer to a better group situation once he's say, an older juvenile. For now all he needs is proper contact with at least one other, older gorilla, to imprint on while he still can.
 
Jambo said:
. Being hand raised, I doubt he’ll ever obtain the capable skills to be a silverback and even being apart of a bachelor group could be an issue too.
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I think he's still got plenty of time to imprint properly on other gorillas if he is given the chance. But they will need to reduce their level of human interaction with him in the future too. A number of handraised males that have had contact with gorillas later on in their growing years have proved to be successful group leaders and fathers, though sometimes they aren't as forceful either as leaders or breeders as mother-raised males. The worst scenario is the male that has not been socialised for much longer, very rare nowadays as they are the ones with the worst problems. I would think Kaius would be in the former category though.
 
Pertinax said:
I'm really getting fed up with all the keeperChad focused publicity.
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I see he’s made 46 posts in 2023 and 43 are about the baby gorilla (with most of them featuring Chad). Anyone would think the gorilla is the zoo’s only animal.
Pertinax said:
I think he's still got plenty of time to imprint properly on other gorillas if he is given the chance. But they will need to reduce their level of human interaction with him in the future too. A number of handraised males that have had contact with gorillas later on in their growing years have proved to be successful group leaders and fathers, though sometimes they aren't as forceful either as leaders or breeders as mother-raised males. The worst scenario is the male that has not been socialised for much longer, very rare nowadays as they are the ones with the worst problems. I would think Kaius would be in the former category though.
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Buzandi is an example of a male who was initially handraised and then returned to his mother as an infant, who went on to successfully lead a troop and breed. Many others have not been as successful - including Mzuri, who only bred successfully with one female.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Buzandi is an example of a male who was initially handraised and then returned to his mother as an infant, who went on to successfully lead a troop and breed. Many others have not been as successful - including Mzuri, who only bred successfully with one female.
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I love Buzandi :D - he's one smart-looking male and takes after mother Betsy in his looks. He's been very successful in Hanover. On the other hand, Mzuri/Ya Kwanza proved something of a washout in Jersey. Apart from his handraised background I think their main mistake, unrealised at the time though, was in bringing in a too-young male to an established group of mostly older females- so he had double the hurdles to overcome to become a 'real' group leader. I don't think these things were fully understood back then, even by a zoo experienced with gorillas like Jersey. It cost them quite dear as far as breeding for the next decade or so.


Another success story is silverback 'Mambie' at Valencia- handraised at Twycross where he was born but fortunately he was then raised with two other (similar-aged) gorillas from a fairly young age. His early experiences don't seem to have affected him as a mature male though.
 
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Pertinax said:
I love Buzandi :D - he's one smart-looking male and takes after mother Betsy in his looks. He's been very successful in Hanover. On the other hand, Mzuri/Ya Kwanza proved something of a washout in Jersey. Apart from his handraised background I think their main mistake, unrealised at the time though, was in bringing in a too-young male to an established group of mostly older females- so he had double the hurdles to overcome to become a 'real' group leader. I don't think these things were fully understood back then, even by a zoo experienced with gorillas like Jersey. It cost them quite dear as far as breeding for the next decade or so.


Another success story is silverback 'Mambie' at Valencia- handraised at Twycross where he was born but fortunately he was then raised with two other (similar-aged) gorillas from a fairly young age. His early experiences don't seem to have affected him as a mature male though.
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Yes, I was only thinking today how Mzuri would have been dealing with six females at Jersey! That’s a lot for any male, let alone an inexperienced blackback.

In 1993, Jersey had:

1.0 Mzuri - 9 years
0.1 N’Pongo - 36 years
0.1 Kishka- 15 years
0.1 G-Ann - 14 years
0.1 Julia - 11 years
0.1 Sakina - 7 years
0.1 Hlala Kahili - 5 years

Though G-Ann and Julia were exported in 1997 (after Julia had her arm broken by Mzuri), I understand full/successful integration was achieved with the other four females - but Hlala Kahili was the only one he mated with. It appears he found her the least intimidating (being the youngest) as Kishka and Sakina were both mother raised/socially normal and Kishka bred with both the previous silverback and the next silverback.
 
Zoofan15 said:
Yes, I was only thinking today how Mzuri would have been dealing with six females at Jersey! That’s a lot for any male, let alone an inexperienced blackback.

In 1993, Jersey had:

1.0 Mzuri - 9 years
0.1 N’Pongo - 36 years
0.1 Kishka- 15 years
0.1 G-Ann - 14 years
0.1 Julia - 11 years
0.1 Sakina - 7 years
0.1 Hlala Kahili - 5 years

Though G-Ann and Julia were exported in 1997 (after Julia had her arm broken by Mzuri), I understand full/successful integration was achieved with the other four females - but Hlala Kahili was the only one he mated with. It appears he found her the least intimidating (being the youngest) as Kishka and Sakina were both mother raised/socially normal and Kishka bred with both the previous silverback and the next silverback.
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You pretty much have the situation with Mzuri at Jersey in a nutshell there. I believe he found a playmate in Hallali Kahiili and that led to mating. GAnne and Julia were outsiders in the group even then, but he found resistance from the established females, Npongo, Kishka and her daughter Sakina. Even as an adult silverback things seemed not to change.
 
WhistlingKite24 said:
Kaius, the handreared gorilla has successfully been introduced to older female G-Anne: 登录 Facebook | Facebook
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It’s good to see Kaius and G-Anne sharing exhibit space for the first time. It’s still early on in the introduction phase and Kaius doesn’t seem even remotely engaged with G-Anne, but that will hopefully change with time.

The important thing here is that she’s accepting of him and will hopefully fulfil her intended role of surrogate - giving him the best possible chance to develop the social skills needed to assimilate into a (bachelor) troop one day.
 
Zoofan15 said:
It’s good to see Kaius and G-Anne sharing exhibit space for the first time. It’s still early on in the introduction phase and Kaius doesn’t seem even remotely engaged with G-Anne, but that will hopefully change with time.

The important thing here is that she’s accepting of him and will hopefully fulfil her intended role of surrogate - giving him the best possible chance to develop the social skills needed to assimilate into a (bachelor) troop one day.
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Good that they finally did it. Even if GAnne shows only marginal interest, as long as she allows him to interact, climb on her etc as he engages with her more, then he should imprint on her as a gorilla. She's certainly calm enough it seems.
 
WhistlingKite24 said:
Continuing a recent spike in callitrichid births regionally, another set of twin Pygmy Marmosets have been born to their pair Chip and Buzz at Mogo. The twins are just over a month old - reported on their FB page.
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Pygmy marmosets are having a great year. In addition to Mogo Wildlife Park, Darling Downs Zoo, Wellington Zoo, Wildlife HQ and Symbio Wildlife Park have all reported births this year.
 
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