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SusScrofa

SusScrofa

Well-Known Member
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article265919956.html

Do you believe zoo monkeys should be classified as venue performers? That's what Monkey Jungle thinks. They applied for a covid-19 relief grant from the Small Business Administration and were rejected on the grounds of the business not being a live performance venue, so they're suing to reverse the decision saying their macaques qualify. Of course, no one cared to ask the monkeys for their opinion.

Meanwhile, while accredited zoological facilities have fully reopened successfully, Monkey Jungle continues to price gouge their clientele with ridiculous $150 private tours, where you can now HOLD and TOUCH the monkeys - something you weren't able to do previously. Funny, when you pay $150 coronavirus suddenly disappears and contact is no problem. And they wonder why they're on the brink of closure...

The article claims they're fully reopening in December. But I've been told they would reopen by the summer, then October. So who knows.



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I would qualify the crab-eater presentation as a live performance (and a damn interesting and educational one at that).
Monkey Jungle has long been known for there interactions between some of the primates and guest (i.e. the neotropical portion with the free roaming Saimiri and Cebus), that's nothing new unless it's different species now.
 
SusScrofa said:
Do you believe zoo monkeys should be classified as venue performers? That's what Monkey Jungle thinks. They applied for a covid-19 relief grant from the Small Business Administration and were rejected on the grounds of the business not being a live performance venue
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PSO said:
I would qualify the crab-eater presentation as a live performance (and a damn interesting and educational one at that).
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What "tricks" or "behaviors" do the monkeys do? Are they made to act like "little people" or do they do tricks like climb, jump, or swim?
 
If it is only that then it is not any worse than how some AZA zoos walking around with wild cats or any exotic animal on leashes.
 
PSO said:
It's a simple demonstration that shows the underwater swimming capability of crab eating macaques with a keeper talk and q/a. Very entertaining and informative
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They have well over 100 macaques though. A couple might be used for the performance, sure, but with those numbers?
 
The macaque presentation is no different than any other primate feeding or training demo at an AZA zoo. I completely agree with what @PSO said and I found it to be a very endearing and educational presentation during my visit (although none of the macaques felt like jumping into the water that particular day). It was really neat to see the macaques slowly emerge from the forest one by one and by the end of the presentation there were at least 40 of them searching for food that was thrown into the enclosure by a keeper.

Monkey Jungle has many shortcomings, but the macaque exhibit and the accompanying presentation is quite remarkable.
 
@pachyderm pro it's unfortunate they didn't swim on the day you visited. Seeing them swim underwater is quite a sight.
However it is the monkeys choice to do so. The keeper even explains how the older monkeys prefer to conserve their energy and let the youngsters have at it. And as you stated, at least 30-40 showed up during the presentation.
@TinoPup I don't understand your previous statement
I was also curious if Indy does a similar demonstration (though their crab eaters came from a different facility)
 
PSO said:
@pachyderm pro it's unfortunate they didn't swim on the day you visited. Seeing them swim underwater is quite a sight.
However it is the monkeys choice to do so. The keeper even explains how the older monkeys prefer to conserve their energy and let the youngsters have at it. And as you stated, at least 30-40 showed up during the presentation.
@TinoPup I don't understand your previous statement
I was also curious if Indy does a similar demonstration (though their crab eaters came from a different facility)
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In relation to them getting a covid grant for being a "live performance venue".
 
Again I can see that being validated. Along with crab eater presentation, King (there lone silverback) does a presentation and an argument could be made about the neotropical primate walk through as well.
This is also a facility that not only dealt with covid but also a set back from Hurricane Irma as well. Would much rather see a "live performance" from these NHPs than most human live performances.
 
TinoPup said:
In relation to them getting a covid grant for being a "live performance venue".
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Why not? There is a daily performance, and it is live. I don't see the issue, unless the grant wording specifies that it has to be humans. Honestly I think all of the zoos should apply for it, they all have live daily shows. I would be interested to see if any other zoos applied and received the grant.
 
The grant is obviously meant to be for human performers, though. I haven't heard of any other zoo that applied. The macaques don't get paid to perform, they don't even have to perform (or at least we should hope). Are we now equating monkeys to humans? That opens up a whole new can of worms, something the ARAs adamant of removing primates from zoos can use.
 
SusScrofa said:
The grant is obviously meant to be for human performers, though. I haven't heard of any other zoo that applied. The macaques don't get paid to perform, they don't even have to perform (or at least we should hope). Are we now equating monkeys to humans? That opens up a whole new can of worms, something the ARAs adamant of removing primates from zoos can use.
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That isn't actually accurate though, the Grant also applies to Museums, not just performance venues. I don't think they are arguing that the "talent" should be equated to humans, but rather that they have talent and a performance and seem to meet the basic requirements of the grant, whether it was written to imply human talent only is not really the question when it comes to these things, rather the question is usually what does the actual language of the grant say?

If a stage venue were staffed entirely by humanoid robots acting out Hamlet should it be disqualified because the actors are programmed robots? I don't think many people would argue it should be.

According to the grant FAQ and information they just have to prove that they have a performance space, performing talent, contracts with the talent (if there are any contracts), pay for talent, and information on the actual space (things like sound, lighting, etc.). Museums don't even have to give all that information (but they have to give other information).

On the surface it would seem they meet the criteria. Sure the talent is being paid in food and lodging, but many community venues don't pay the actors in any way.

But in the end I don't think any of us are really qualified to say if they do or do not qualify for the grant - I know I don't have those credentials.
 
Other 2022 News:

On February 10th, the facility announced that a (0.0.1) black-capped squirrel monkey was born.

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On July 2nd, the facility announced that a (0.0.1) common squirrel monkey was born.

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On December 2nd, the facility announced that a (0.0.1) crab-eating macaque was born.

Baby crab eating macaque with mom. Today’s #friendsofthejungle goes to @iam.damion What an amazing capture! #monkeyjunglemiami #macaque #macaquemonkey... | By Monkey Jungle | Facebook
 
I recently visited Monkey Jungle after they reopened for normal self-guided admission. Almost half the facility is closed off due to construction, although admission is only $20 instead of the normal $30. I don't think the closed area actually houses many of the collections species and I think its mostly the macaque feeding area thats closed. Of the primates, only the Lar Gibbon and Colombian Black Spider Monkey enclosures are cut off but I was able to see signage for the gibbon and actually just barely make out the monkeys moving from afar. Their recent USDA report doesnt indicate any mammal species present that I didnt see or at least see signs for.

Without the path, the current macaque feeding area is tiny and there really werent any monkeys that were looking for treats so buying feed proved to be a waste of money. The free-roaming capuchin/squirrel monkey exhibit was great and the macaque pool was also nice but most of the other monkey enclosures were outdated and the collection is small now. I dont remember every detail of my first visit in the 2000s, but there were more visitors and the macaque feeding area was lively back then. They also had great apes, eventhough they didnt really belong there and pobably other rarities that are long gone and that unfortunately I cant remember details about. Thinking about it, Monkey Jungle is the only primate-specialist facility I know of thats open to the public without limited and often very expensive private tours, so its a shame the species roster is so thinned out and the quality isnt really where it should be.
 
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