Monkey World Ape Rescue Centre Monkey World Ape Rescue Centre 2009 #1
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taun
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This was on Monkey Life (channel 5) last week, However I have forgotten which Gibbons were involved.
Though this is a good point about not (deliberately) breeding from their chimps, thus letting a resevoir of genes go to waste-as I pondered before, it's probably not a wise idea to breed from animals that have had no or little time with their mothers, as many of the accidental births have shown. However, as someone pointed out before (apologies, forgotten who
), they *could* still send some of the bachelors to other zoos, though the chimps might well have mental problems (some certainly seem too!) that prevent this/make it an unwise idea. As for the woollys-well, just look at the sifaka lemur thread
Taxa change all the time, one expert says different to another. They could be pure, they could be hybrid. Who really knows?Its a curious fact that the orangutan EEP has agreed Monkeyworld, despite having only limited experience, should act as a centre to handraise babies from European zoos, so in this case the zoo world and MW are cooperating.
However the death of Sumatran youngster 'Aris' resulted needlessly from being introduced to older Orangs too soon. An establishment more experienced in raising young orangutans would probably not have made that mistake.
I think their rescue work is very commendable. I am not quite so sure about some of the other areas of primate husbandry they have moved into though.
zoogiraffe
Well-Known Member
And every one of them an accident as they didn`t think the male was old enough to breed so they hadnt`yet given it the snip!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
with careful management, even socially deprived chimps can be induced to breed, or some of them. I am always surprised at how succesfully nearly all the socially deprived chimps at Monkeyworld have integrated into large social groups. i still believe these groups are their best achievement to date.
reptile1517
Well-Known Member
Gigit
Well-Known Member
Echoes of other zoos and other species!
Gigit
Well-Known Member
How does a zoo like Paignton, without previous experience, prove that it is capable of holding a bachelor group of gorillas, for instance?
Gigit
Well-Known Member
Well, they are a long established collection with a good/reasonable record with Primates generally.. I think the EEp were equally keen for some bachelor groups to be set up as new exhibits were needed for the build-up of spare males in the population so it benefits all concerned as well as being a 'safe' way for a zoo to start with and learn management techniques. I think Marwell will go the same route.(they haven't had Apes before).On the other hand Chester are more likely to be allocated a breeding group as they have a long history of successfully keeping all three(main) species.
As I've said before, I think Paignton deserve to have a breeding group of Gorillas as well as the bachelors. In my opinion their bachelor group is the best managed one I know of. Build new indoor accomodation for the Orangutans and split their island which is enormous anyway. Wishful thinking I know...
sorry, I don't quite get your drift here.
Gigit
Well-Known Member
I was wondering why people here, as well as some zoos, don't like Monkey World. If that is all zoos are bothered about - I don't like you because you don't like me - then it's not too serious.
mazfc
Well-Known Member
yes Gigit I think you're right. Everyones entitles to their opinions on how they think their particular collection should be mamanged.
As a visitor I enjoy seeing the large enclosures and integrated groups. I dont know too much about breeding pgms - is there a european bredding pgm for chimps? But MW needs to shore its resources in these times, and if funding is going into developing their orang, woolly and gibbon breeding pgms then it is only sensible to keep the chimp breeding on a back burner, as they are likely to need intensive (which is presumbly costly) hand-rearing, unless like Cathy, they are able to rear their babies themselves.
Also the provenance of a lot of the chimps is not known too well, as the majority are rescue animals. Again I dont really know how that would effect a bteeding pgm, but it must to some extent
Please get a life, my friend! If you can not stand the heat, you should not stand in the kitchen! In other words valid criticism regarding Monkey World should not be confronted by - like me, not like me - assertions. These are way of the mark and have no place here in my judgement! We are all free and fair to discuss what us posters think are the issues involved or what is noteworthy to post onto others. You as an individual do not stand above us, nor below us, so please treat us with some respect and take it all at face value!
Us posters here on this thread are discussing presumed or perceived inconsistencies at Monkey World relating to its technical management and expertise of great apes as well as its apparent lack of interest in captive-breeding or genetic management as valid components of captive great ape management.
Monkey World itself is not particularly keen on zoological institutions and presents itself as a sanctuary for great apes. Some of the wild caught great apes are put on the pill or sterilised to preclude any breeding in captivity. Zoos would very keenly provide accomodation for pure-bred groups of chimpanzees for instance and try hard to preserve their genetic or taxon integrity. However, at Monkey World the chimpanzees are not divided according to genetically and ecologically - in the wild - separate units as per their individual taxon designation, but rather randomly according to personal or perceived preferences of the great apes'.
I know of no fundamental scientific research within the collection that stimulates genetic, behavioral or social studies at the facility into the complexities of its wild caught chimpanzees. Such research would not just assist in clarification of how to define the entire captive population of chimpanzees currently in captivity globally, but surely help to preserve the integrity of their counterparts in the wild and promote more effective habitat conservation for them.
As for animal introductions or individual management of the more solitary less sociable great apes, in particular the orang utans (which curiously are now part of the EEP), Monkey World's management level of orang utan puts it open to criticism. Sadly, their handling of the latest incident involving the unfortunate death of a orang infant does not make the sanctuary look so good in front of the camera.
Monkey World has in addition provided rather spartan non inviting accomodation for its collection of rare gabriellae gibbons (please observe our continous commenting on the conditions at Twycross relating to its handling and exhibit management of the great apes). None have left the collection to be integrated into the wider the EAZA region to assist in the EEP cooperative breeding programme for this rare taxon. That is rather curious and deplorable.
I - as well as quite a few other forumsters - have some reservations with Monkey World's favoured presentable image to all media. In the media Monkey World presents itslef as guardians of all the great apes' plight. Whereas, I do no take away any of its efforts to rescue great apes from miserable captive conditions, I do have qualms with its apparent disinterest in preserving the great apes in captivity nor in providing the great apes in its care with real natural social environments. If integrated into good social environments these great apes can an will be able to resocialise with other individuals of their species and exhibit the full compliment of all their species' natural behaviours. To deny these traumatised great apes' the full complement and reportoire of amongst others their dominance/subordinate and their reproductive behaviours is curious - to me - as well as unjust.
The fact that most of Monkey World's inhabitants came from confiscations and wild caught animals, makes its apparent disregard for their genetic or other value to captive great apes' species management is rahter disconcerting. So, from a perspective of ex situ species preservation they are failing and the educational value of the collection is hence also somewhat overstated. How the captive great apes' at Monkey World can be ambassadors for their plight and/or their wild counterparts is beyond me. Lastly, its in situ involvement with wildlife conservation, fundamental species research or protected area management is rather dysfunctional. The new and very recent project with gabriellae gibbons in Vietnam at Nam Cat Tien) is but an exception to the rule.
It is thus not surprising that Monkey World does not have a high standing within the zoological community at large nor with a well versed and read pool of posters as frequents this forum and thread.
I rest my case before the jury out there ... (and other posters beyond you and me, my friend). So, please all ... feel free to put forward your own perspective and on the lastest here.
K.B.
In other words valid criticism regarding Monkey World should not be confronted by - like me, not like me - assertions. These are way of the mark and have no place here in my judgement! We are all free and fair to discuss what us posters think are the issues involved or what is noteworthy to post onto others. You as an individual do not stand above us, nor below us, so please treat us with some respect and take it all at face value!Us posters here on this thread are discussing presumed or perceived inconsistencies at Monkey World relating to its technical management and expertise of great apes as well as its apparent lack of interest in captive-breeding or genetic management as valid components of captive great ape management.
Monkey World itself is not particularly keen on zoological institutions and presents itself as a sanctuary for great apes. Some of the wild caught great apes are put on the pill or sterilised to preclude any breeding in captivity. Zoos would very keenly provide accomodation for pure-bred groups of chimpanzees for instance and try hard to preserve their genetic or taxon integrity. However, at Monkey World the chimpanzees are not divided according to genetically and ecologically - in the wild - separate units as per their individual taxon designation, but rather randomly according to personal or perceived preferences of the great apes'.
I know of no fundamental scientific research within the collection that stimulates genetic, behavioral or social studies at the facility into the complexities of its wild caught chimpanzees. Such research would not just assist in clarification of how to define the entire captive population of chimpanzees currently in captivity globally, but surely help to preserve the integrity of their counterparts in the wild and promote more effective habitat conservation for them.
As for animal introductions or individual management of the more solitary less sociable great apes, in particular the orang utans (which curiously are now part of the EEP), Monkey World's management level of orang utan puts it open to criticism. Sadly, their handling of the latest incident involving the unfortunate death of a orang infant does not make the sanctuary look so good in front of the camera.
Monkey World has in addition provided rather spartan non inviting accomodation for its collection of rare gabriellae gibbons (please observe our continous commenting on the conditions at Twycross relating to its handling and exhibit management of the great apes). None have left the collection to be integrated into the wider the EAZA region to assist in the EEP cooperative breeding programme for this rare taxon. That is rather curious and deplorable.
I - as well as quite a few other forumsters - have some reservations with Monkey World's favoured presentable image to all media. In the media Monkey World presents itslef as guardians of all the great apes' plight. Whereas, I do no take away any of its efforts to rescue great apes from miserable captive conditions, I do have qualms with its apparent disinterest in preserving the great apes in captivity nor in providing the great apes in its care with real natural social environments. If integrated into good social environments these great apes can an will be able to resocialise with other individuals of their species and exhibit the full compliment of all their species' natural behaviours. To deny these traumatised great apes' the full complement and reportoire of amongst others their dominance/subordinate and their reproductive behaviours is curious - to me - as well as unjust.
The fact that most of Monkey World's inhabitants came from confiscations and wild caught animals, makes its apparent disregard for their genetic or other value to captive great apes' species management is rahter disconcerting. So, from a perspective of ex situ species preservation they are failing and the educational value of the collection is hence also somewhat overstated. How the captive great apes' at Monkey World can be ambassadors for their plight and/or their wild counterparts is beyond me. Lastly, its in situ involvement with wildlife conservation, fundamental species research or protected area management is rather dysfunctional. The new and very recent project with gabriellae gibbons in Vietnam at Nam Cat Tien) is but an exception to the rule.
It is thus not surprising that Monkey World does not have a high standing within the zoological community at large nor with a well versed and read pool of posters as frequents this forum and thread.
I rest my case before the jury out there ... (and other posters beyond you and me, my friend). So, please all ... feel free to put forward your own perspective and on the lastest here.
K.B.
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