Monkey World Ape Rescue Centre Monkey World Ape Rescue Centre 2010
- Thread starter Hisao-ning
- Start date
- Status
Gigit
Well-Known Member
When I visited a few weeks ago, the person giving the orangutan talk said that Kai is a bit jealous of his new brother, Jin, but that Gordon is very good at keeping him occupied.
Yeah, he did seem it! They were very amusing inside however, they were standing on the blue barrels and rotating them with their feet so to get the air vent on the wall, I'm not sure what was on the other side of it but it definitely interested Kai and his mother!
Hisao-ning
Active Member
glad you had a good viset
Monkey World's animal director Jeremy Keeling has written a book about his experience of handrearing Amy and Gordon. It's called Jeremy and Amy and is due out on 1st July. It is priced at £16.99 but is on Amazon for £10.19 
[ame=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jeremy-Amy-Extraordinary-Story-Orang-utan/dp/1906021988/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276377618&sr=8-1]Jeremy and Amy: The Extraordinary Story of One Man and His Orang-utan: Amazon.co.uk: Jeremy Keeling, Rick Broadbent: Books[/ame]
JEREMY KEELING: The orangutan who saved my life | Mail Online
[ame=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jeremy-Amy-Extraordinary-Story-Orang-utan/dp/1906021988/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1276377618&sr=8-1]Jeremy and Amy: The Extraordinary Story of One Man and His Orang-utan: Amazon.co.uk: Jeremy Keeling, Rick Broadbent: Books[/ame]
JEREMY KEELING: The orangutan who saved my life | Mail Online
Twiglet2010
Well-Known Member
Just read the book taster and I can't wait for it to be released, it looks really interesting
Gigit
Well-Known Member
Orangutans
I've just got round to watching the final episode of the latest Monkey World series. It featured the birth of orangutan, Jin. I'm not usually a critic of Monkey World, but I was very disappointed to hear Jeremy saying that he wasn't too worried about the baby being another male - a boy just means he wants yet another orang enclosure, as you can't keep adult males in close proximity.
Surely Monkey World doesn't see this as the only solution to their growing male, or even female, population? Last year, a member of staff said that some of their second generation may be moved to other zoos, but that doesn't sound like Jeremy's plan.
In his book, he says "Amy's genes were too valuable to waste" and, in one of the TV episodes, he acknowledges Gordon's high ranking in the stud book. In fact, 12 of their orangs are in the top 20 in the male and female mean kinship lists. As EEP members, shouldn't they be spreading these genes around for the benefit of the captive population, especially as according to his book, Jeremy believes "it is our duty to preserve these wonderful animals".
I've just got round to watching the final episode of the latest Monkey World series. It featured the birth of orangutan, Jin. I'm not usually a critic of Monkey World, but I was very disappointed to hear Jeremy saying that he wasn't too worried about the baby being another male - a boy just means he wants yet another orang enclosure, as you can't keep adult males in close proximity.
Surely Monkey World doesn't see this as the only solution to their growing male, or even female, population? Last year, a member of staff said that some of their second generation may be moved to other zoos, but that doesn't sound like Jeremy's plan.
In his book, he says "Amy's genes were too valuable to waste" and, in one of the TV episodes, he acknowledges Gordon's high ranking in the stud book. In fact, 12 of their orangs are in the top 20 in the male and female mean kinship lists. As EEP members, shouldn't they be spreading these genes around for the benefit of the captive population, especially as according to his book, Jeremy believes "it is our duty to preserve these wonderful animals".
Gigit
Well-Known Member
The EEP aims to maintain maximum genetic diversity. Does it have any powers to force the exchange of animals or can it only give advice and make recommendations?
I don't know when they did it, but Monkey World must have had a reason for joining the EEP. Was it so that they could get Banghi from Chester as a mate for Amy?
nicholas
Well-Known Member
The EEP can only make recommendations and the institutions can choose for themselves if they want to follow them. Among some EEP's there is a huge problem that the recommendations from the coordinators is not followed. Keep in mind though that orangs are long lived animals and that the studbook and the recommendations aims to keep the genetic diversity as high as possible over a long period of time. Maybe there is a plan to move Gordon somewhere else in 20 years?
I think the hope is for Monkey World to build another orangutan complex for yet another group. Surely they will have to send some off to another collection at to some point? Id also like to know what their plans are with the orangutan nursery, are these ones going to return to their previous homes or stay at Monkey World too? I remember when they had Aris they sounded as if they hoped to keep him.
I also remember getting the impression that they might hope to keep Aris from a keeper talk but I was told very definitely last year by a member of staff that the non-Monkey World orangutan nursery babies belong to where they came from and could be sent anywhere as part of the breeding programme.
I've been to Monkey World on a number of occassions and am a big fan of their work. However I happen to believe they are reaching a crossroad and need to think about what exactly they want the park to acheive. From solely rescuing chimpanzees and other neglected primates, the balance has swayed strongly towards co-ordinated breeding programmes for both woolly monkeys and orang-utans. While they should be highly commended for their acheivements in breeding these animals, their apparent lack of participation in the EEP and distance from zoological collections may cause them problems in the near future especially with Jin being yet another male. (I'm not sure how long Gordon and Kai will be able to co-habit, let alone a third male and with Tuan in the other group they are definite need of expansion or other collections to loan these animals to).
Stockpiling.
This has always been a problem for some EEP's, particularly where individuals are held by private collections who don't want to pool their animals or send them to other collections , but prefer to 'stockpile' the species instead. I think the Monkeyworld orangs still fall into this category, at least at the present time. Historically they don't see themselves as a 'zoo' so are a little at a tangent to other collections anyway though in the case of Orangutans they are becoming more involved, acting with the EEP as a 'nursery' for the species. This will inevitably bring them more contact with other zoos, at least with this species and I think another stage will involve Orangs leaving MW as well as arriving. Regarding 'Gordon' they do have considerable emotional ties with him as he was both their first Orang birth and was handraised too. So perhaps they are likely never to let him go elsewhere. But eventually as the stock gets even larger they will probably be forced to send some of the others elsewhere as it will be impossible to keep every baby born there right up to maturity- especially males- as they can't afford to build enclosures ad infinitum to house several seperate groups. Also statements about an animal's future are often made at its birth e.g. 'we are definately keeping him' which will then change ten years down the line when many more have been born and the early ones are no longer quite so important. I can see MW reaching this situation if they keep on breeding orangutans and so may be less unwilling to transfer some later.
There is a parallel here with the Howletts gorillas, another private collection. Originally they stockpiled them and were very reluctant to allow any to be moved elsewhere. They simply built more and more enclosures to house them all. When the EEP made suggestions/recommendations for a few females to be incorporated from Howletts into the main zoo population, there was a point blank refusal. But once Howletts/PL couldn't afford to build any more enclosures and had reached saturation point, things changed radically. Firstly, single males, and a couple of male/female pairs/trios went to a couple of French zoos(probably sold to raise money) that wanted some to add to their existing groups, and now several batches of related surplus males are also leaving to form male groups in several other European zoos, in order to relieve Howletts/PL space problem as they are no longer building new enclosures. (These moves are unlikely to have had much involvement from the EEP and are more likely to have come from private deals/requests).
So eventually I think you will see Orangutans start to leave Monkeyworld too.
This has always been a problem for some EEP's, particularly where individuals are held by private collections who don't want to pool their animals or send them to other collections , but prefer to 'stockpile' the species instead. I think the Monkeyworld orangs still fall into this category, at least at the present time. Historically they don't see themselves as a 'zoo' so are a little at a tangent to other collections anyway though in the case of Orangutans they are becoming more involved, acting with the EEP as a 'nursery' for the species. This will inevitably bring them more contact with other zoos, at least with this species and I think another stage will involve Orangs leaving MW as well as arriving. Regarding 'Gordon' they do have considerable emotional ties with him as he was both their first Orang birth and was handraised too. So perhaps they are likely never to let him go elsewhere. But eventually as the stock gets even larger they will probably be forced to send some of the others elsewhere as it will be impossible to keep every baby born there right up to maturity- especially males- as they can't afford to build enclosures ad infinitum to house several seperate groups. Also statements about an animal's future are often made at its birth e.g. 'we are definately keeping him' which will then change ten years down the line when many more have been born and the early ones are no longer quite so important. I can see MW reaching this situation if they keep on breeding orangutans and so may be less unwilling to transfer some later.
There is a parallel here with the Howletts gorillas, another private collection. Originally they stockpiled them and were very reluctant to allow any to be moved elsewhere. They simply built more and more enclosures to house them all. When the EEP made suggestions/recommendations for a few females to be incorporated from Howletts into the main zoo population, there was a point blank refusal. But once Howletts/PL couldn't afford to build any more enclosures and had reached saturation point, things changed radically. Firstly, single males, and a couple of male/female pairs/trios went to a couple of French zoos(probably sold to raise money) that wanted some to add to their existing groups, and now several batches of related surplus males are also leaving to form male groups in several other European zoos, in order to relieve Howletts/PL space problem as they are no longer building new enclosures. (These moves are unlikely to have had much involvement from the EEP and are more likely to have come from private deals/requests).
So eventually I think you will see Orangutans start to leave Monkeyworld too.
Last edited:
Gigit
Well-Known Member
"So eventually I think you will see Orangutans start to leave Monkey World too."
I think, and hope, you're right. I can't see how they can expect to keep them all, though they are lucky to have the luxury of two breeding males at the moment so Tuan isn't fathering all the babies. I agree that Gordon is unlikely to leave. In his book, Jeremy describes himself as Gordon's 'surrogate grandmother'! The handraising of the other babies seems to have been shared out among the staff so they may not be so emotionally attached to them.
I think, and hope, you're right. I can't see how they can expect to keep them all, though they are lucky to have the luxury of two breeding males at the moment so Tuan isn't fathering all the babies. I agree that Gordon is unlikely to leave. In his book, Jeremy describes himself as Gordon's 'surrogate grandmother'! The handraising of the other babies seems to have been shared out among the staff so they may not be so emotionally attached to them.
I suspect in reality they will stop at two breeding males- Tuan & Gordon.
Unlike with the Chimps, they can't keep adult males in 'multi-male' groups with females, so any other males will longterm become a problem to house. If they carry on breeding them, the more Orangs they have, the less 'personal' they become and that's when they are likely to be prepared to let some of the less 'precious/favourite' ones go elsewhere.
Unlike with the Chimps, they can't keep adult males in 'multi-male' groups with females, so any other males will longterm become a problem to house. If they carry on breeding them, the more Orangs they have, the less 'personal' they become and that's when they are likely to be prepared to let some of the less 'precious/favourite' ones go elsewhere.
Slightly off topic but..in Jeremy Keelings book it mentions that his family ran a zoo in the Pennines, anyone know the name of the collection ?
Unless I've got my Keelings in a twist, I expect this would be 'Pan's Garden'/the Ashover Zoological Garden in Derbyshire, run by Clinton Keeling, founder of the Bartlett Society.
- Status