Moscow zoo Moscow zoo
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Any idea where they came from?
Raikou
Well-Known Member
I don't know. But the Moscow Zoo started building an exhibition area for giant otters last year.
I don't know how helpful this is, but CITES Trade Database lists a 2023 permit for 6 captive-bred giant otters into Russia from Venezuala
Care to elaborate bc I am not dealing with any politics pro/contra Venezuela here? Can you please provide more information or the real link to what you are alluding to?
Considering all facts;
- Giant otters are cites I, only captive bred animals can be traded freely;
- Breeding giant otters was until very recently considered very hard;
- According to ZooTierliste, no Zoo in Venezuela holds giant otters;
- It takes a very corrupt nation in it’s home range to falsefy documents;
- Venezuela is currently in both an economic and political crises, being ruled by a corrupt regime and in the home range of giant otters;
- recently, Vantara Zoo (that insane Indian Zoo project) alledgedly acquired 150? Giant otters from, you guessed it, Venezuela.
- Moscow Zoo has little benefit of obtaining 6 siblings (and litter sizes of over 5 are really rare), considering how hard it would be for them to acquire partners, so these are likely from at least 2 different litters.
Either there is an insane giant otter puppy mill in one of the poorest nations in the world, or some things don’t add up.
I’m not saying the 6 from Moscow could not be captive bred, I’m saying the odds are stacked against them.
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From what I’ve read, they’re not necessarily difficult to breed; but historically, the mortality rate of young bred in zoos has been very high. A study across six zoos reported 145 live pups born between 1970-1997, of which all but 20 pups died before reaching one year of age.
It should be noted that husbandry would have advanced immensely in the decades that have followed and these statistics are not necessarily reflective of survival rates in zoos today.
If I’m informed correctly, many youngsters drowned because they only had acces to water that was too deep.
These days when young are born, acces to shallow water for the little ones to practice swimming is provided and acces to deep water is fenced off. Giant otter breeding is since off the scale, where previously they were rarer than hen’s teeth in captivity. Well in Europe at least, the US is doing OK but somewhat lagging behind.
These days when young are born, acces to shallow water for the little ones to practice swimming is provided and acces to deep water is fenced off. Giant otter breeding is since off the scale, where previously they were rarer than hen’s teeth in captivity. Well in Europe at least, the US is doing OK but somewhat lagging behind.
Just as a pedantic side note, there is no implication in the permit that the animals are siblings. In a theoretical permit for captive-bred animals, the individuals could have any range in ages and pedigree history, and be born across any number of locations. The permit only states their (alleged) means of origin and export from a single source, nothing more.
Fully agreed with your assessment. There is much to be questioned about the sourcing of these animals.
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I am not naive nor a-political. My contention is/was that everything we hear, say, do, claim and observe actually IS very MUCH political. Aside, from the politics, some points you make are valid ..., while others are an unknown thus remain contentious ...., JUST as is that an import from Venezuela given current socio-economics as well as politics it is highly contentious.
One contention Romains the assumption they are captive-bred. I do not know at this point in time for certain that this is the case ..., I don't even know if any of us on the forum nor EAZA does know source population and life histories of the imported giant otters.
Another, to tie in one corruptable country like Venezuela with the outright suspect and ignoring all CITES and international regulations on animal import/export Vantara Zoo (officially this is the
Greens Zoological, Rescue and Rehabilitation Centre, JAMNAGAR, Gujrat, India), I would not personally level up squarely. I would keep both cases as separate incidents with perhaps a similar trajectory (but not sure)... However having said that it does deserve more than intense interest and investigative capacity from the TRAFFIC-IUCN network to find out how Venezuela acquired or manages its giant otters or how they sourced them.
Finally .... I know somewhat in the past, Venezuela as a country with several good standard zoos did have a history with giant otters. Now Zootierliste ain't the most reliable resource for animal collections outside ZIMS but ... it is the only thing we have got ATM. Facilities mentioned with giant otters included ...: Bolivar (Parque Loefling). Caracas (El Pinar Zoo), Maracay (Zoologica Las Delicias), Maturin (Parque y Zoologico La Guaricha), Turmero (Zoológico de la Familia Pantin) and Valencia (Acuario Valencia). I myself do remember having read through publications from Venezuelan zoos when they were in good staid that they maintained and had husbandry experience of giant otters. Period!
I am not saying one way or another, I am just wanting to stick to the facts and what we do know, what we may assume to be so and what are the unknowns that most certainly do require further investigation and fundamental research by the TRAFFIC-IUCN network of experts.
NOTA BENE 1): The Greens Zoological, Rescue and Rehabilitation Centre facility is not just not a zoo facility, when yet accredited by the CZA association in India...., it is a greenwash glossed over private collection with all the hallmarks of corruption, abject and toxic multibillionaire behaviors and trampling over any regards for national and international laws on wildlife and animals in trade. Mind you the place is close to the current BJP Modi Government ... and that alone should tell you enough what it really is....like.
NOTA BENE 2): Yes, Venezuela has been made a Banana Republlic by Nicoas Maduro ...., say no more ..., yet the country is rich and the socio-economic elite and upper middle class are enabling his regime, but that in itself is not qualifying the trade of giant otters from Venezuela in itself illegimitate (allthough I personally do have serious reservations and will want to know what really is going on with both cases as well as the current state of the country's zoos and status of giant otters both in captivity and in the wilds....
Sounds like a very long way of saying it is possible the animals came from a reputable source, but the odds are stacked against them? Happy to agree
@jwer, my long essay was more about getting to the bottom of the shitpile only. Further, my contributions may sometimes be long but I like to add value and not just blabber on a bit.Sounds like a very long way of saying it is possible the animals came from a reputable source, but the odds are stacked against them? Happy to agree
Actually, I would like TRAFFIC-IUCN to investigate the source and validity of export of the giant otters out. That is my bottomline. PLUS: I would like to have the Indian establishment fully investigated over its potential lapses, severe infringements upon CITES Trade regulations and (il-)legal imports and exports from (non-)range countries. Period!
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