With possibly only 4(+ Amohoro?) true Mountain gorillas ever being in captivity, I think it is too small a sample to deduce anything from. A good percentage of the young Lowland Gorillas entering zoos from the wild also died at an early age too.
Mountain gorillas
- Thread starter reptile1517
- Start date
With possibly only 4(+ Amohoro?) true Mountain gorillas ever being in captivity, I think it is too small a sample to deduce anything from. A good percentage of the young Lowland Gorillas entering zoos from the wild also died at an early age too.
I think because few were ever avialable for import, gorilla husbandry in 1950's-70's was worse known, and infants were mistreated after capture and during transport (two juveniles in Dian Fossey's care being notable exception).
I guess now it would be technically possible to make zoo breeding population of mountain gorillas from orphans - but nobody will allow it.
Western Lowland Gorillas are simply easier to find, hence, easier to capture. Ever since Gorillas have been big attractions, Western Lowland Gorillas have been the dominant specimens. Think of it this way, the WLG had been known to science for over 100 years and people still thought Mountain Gorillas were a myth. Even before the finding of the unreported Western population, WLG by themselves made up around 50,000 of the estimated 70,000 wild gorillas left.
Mountain gorillas when available in the 1970's were taken into captivity gorilla breeding was not yet mainstream and hence formation of breeding groups did not occur much. Besides, as has been pointed out when mountain gorillas came into captivity most were infants and not in exactly the best of health due to capture ...
I suppose it is possible now and perhaps the few graueri and berengei in E/C Africa will be the first breeding groups in captivity as rehabilitation will take a while.
Come to think of it, if all stays as it is I do hope that ZOO Antwerpen will identify beyond doubt the taxon status of Amahoro. Afters, I would urge them to have her relocated to the rehab troupes in E/C Africa were she may be able to contribute her genes to in situ increasing of these rare gorillas. In all fairness, it be great if ZOO Antwerpen would take on the rehab/reintroduction of the graueri/berengei gorillas as a project!!!
I suppose it is possible now and perhaps the few graueri and berengei in E/C Africa will be the first breeding groups in captivity as rehabilitation will take a while.
Come to think of it, if all stays as it is I do hope that ZOO Antwerpen will identify beyond doubt the taxon status of Amahoro. Afters, I would urge them to have her relocated to the rehab troupes in E/C Africa were she may be able to contribute her genes to in situ increasing of these rare gorillas. In all fairness, it be great if ZOO Antwerpen would take on the rehab/reintroduction of the graueri/berengei gorillas as a project!!!
reptile1517
Well-Known Member
Then I stand corrected. Thanks everyone for your help. Hope everyone is having a good Easter. Brian
reptile1517
Well-Known Member
Dates
Yes, I could be out by a few years. Looking through my notes, my visit in 1971 saw the Mountains (now easterns). Whether they were there at an earlier date I didn't log.
Yes, I could be out by a few years. Looking through my notes, my visit in 1971 saw the Mountains (now easterns). Whether they were there at an earlier date I didn't log.
if you mean you went to Cologne in 1971, you saw Coco & Pucker who were true Beringei/mountain gorillas, not Eastern Lowlands. Their history and transportation from Africa was very well documented by Dian Fossey who had cared for them. They should not have left Africa of course- Cologne Zoo showed themselves in poor light by accepting what was essentially a governmental diplomatic gift...
Zebraduiker
Well-Known Member
@Pertinax.
So why Coco and Pucker should not have left africa ? Because they were"Mountain Gorillas", or their parents were killed to get the babies ? So what do you think has happend to the mothers of all the lowland gorillas, orangs and chimpanzees, which were send to the zoos ? I would say, every zoo who is keeping today apes,is standing in a poor light and is guilty to have murdered many,many apes...
So why Coco and Pucker should not have left africa ? Because they were"Mountain Gorillas", or their parents were killed to get the babies ? So what do you think has happend to the mothers of all the lowland gorillas, orangs and chimpanzees, which were send to the zoos ? I would say, every zoo who is keeping today apes,is standing in a poor light and is guilty to have murdered many,many apes...
I would say you are making grave accusations without proof of implication. If you do not have any written, oral or photographic documentation of any involvement by zoos in the illegal gorilla trade, you should come forward with the evidence. If not, you are judicially slandering zoos and are open to litigation. If I were you, I would think and reflect before I write something of this nature down here!
Incidentally, it is Year of the Gorilla for some zoos this year ....
It's probably fair to suggest that nearly every gorilla that was imported from the wild to zoos prior to the early 1970s was collected in a way that had a negative impact--directly or indirectly--on the wild populations. While those days were long ago, no doubt there are still quite a few gorillas alive in zoos today whose captive origins would be totally unacceptable now. At the time, such collection methods would not have met the description of "illegal"--it's just the way things were done then.
Sun Wukong
Well-Known Member
Zebraduiker has a point there; most if not all "original" great apes in zoos started as orphans brought in from the wild to the zoos via the sometimes rather dubious paths of international exotic animal trade. And most were "collected" by killing the mothers and/or the whole social group. The latter is quite well documented-among others, by some of the (white) hunters themselves, in various pieces of back-then popular literature ("Bring them back alive", "When I was working for Hagenbeck"...).
The female Eastern Lowland Gorilla Noelle died at Chester in 1975, the cause was a relapse of a severe respiratory infection which had previously been treated. The post mortem revealed evidence of viral or mycoplasma pneumonia. Mukisi was exported in 1985. The Chester pair were acquired in November 1960, and were originally thought to be Mountain Gorillas.
In 1969 she had a false pregnancy.
In 1969 she had a false pregnancy.
You are correct that in the past a great many orphaned Apes of all three species were only captured as a result of the death of their parents or group members. I am not condoning that either, though zoos have considerably shifted their attitudes toward this trade.
Coco and Pucker's case was rather unusual however. They were of a very rare and high profile species. They were sent to Europe at a time when the wholesale trade in young apes was already drawing to a close and many zoos were recognising the errors of the past by not accepting animals that came through that route. They were not tiny babies and were being cared for in Africa by Dian Fossey, world expert on the species who would have overseen their rehabilitation into the wild. Instead she had to sit by and see them sent to Europe against every sensible argument. That is why I said Cologne came out of it badly by accepting them, though I think it was a political move rather than just the zoo acting alone.
They came from the animal trapper Charles Cordier. 'Noelle' was brought to him as a tiny baby on Christmas eve, hence her name.( reference; George Schaller; the Year of the Gorilla)
Including the notorious American hunter Bill Said who supplied Columbus Zoo with its first three Gorillas, (two of which went on to be the very first Gorilla parents) and some of the other USA zoos with their early Gorillas too.