Dallas and Fort Worth are so close that any zoo lover in the area would be nuts not to visit both. (If you have time, throw in Fossil Rim about an hour's drive? south).
Must See American Zoos
- Thread starter Cat-Man
- Start date
ANyhuis
Well-Known Member
World of Primates is almost entirely constructed of concrete, and very poorly at that. To call it an "indoor rain forest" is a real stretch. And the outdoor exhibits are small patches of grass with dead trees and more bad fake rock--nothing special at all.
MOLA has potential, but since it is months away from completion I'm not sure how you can so confidently declare it to be "beautiful." But then clearly you are a "glass half-full" kind of guy!
And Texas Wild is over-the-top theme park with average to below-average animal habitats.
I guess I'm not up-to-date on MOLA, I thought I'd heard it was open. Guess not. As for World of Primates, African Savanna, and Asian Falls, they certainly WERE "beautiful" when I last saw them, but I'll admit that it's been over a decade. I guess I need to get back there.
As for Texas Wild being "over the top theme park", I don't even know HOW it can be "over the top". Disney's Animal Kingdom is a real theme park and I think it's great! It certainly attracts huge crowds to come see and appreciate the animals -- people who might not otherwise come to "the Zoo". If Texas Wild attracts any kind of similar crowds, then it's successful.
I know I am not a fan of turning zoos into theme-park like places.
ANyhuis
Well-Known Member
That's fine, we can agree to disagree on this one. Many of our fellow ZooChatters are with you on this one, I know.
As I've said many times, I am for anything to draws more positive attention to zoos and makes them more into real tourist attractions. When zoos can draw even larger crowds, they generate more money. That's money that can be used to improve zoo habitats, build newer and better exhibits, and bring in even more amazing animals. This is good not only for us human zoo-lovers, but also good for the animals in the zoos.
Disney's Animal Kingdom, Busch Gardens, and the Sea Worlds have proven that combining a zoo with a theme park draws huge crowds, and many of the folks in those crowds are people who would not ordinarily go to a regular zoo. But once they're in DAK, BG, or SW, they end up seeing, enjoying, and appreciating the zoo animals on exhibit. That, I maintain, is a measure of success! With zoos showing great success in adding train rides, carousels, monorails, and even sky rides, this is further proof that adding "a little bit of theme park atmosphere" is a good thing. Even the Bronx Zoo, when they had to close their sky ride, they announced that they'll soon be replacing it with "an amusement park-type ride". I was delighted to hear this!
But I understand -- some of you just can't get past hearing a roller coaster, while enjoying the animals of the African savannah. Some think it's "vulgar" to see Disney Jungle Book costumed characters -- only a few yards from the beginning of the amazing okapi, hippo, and gorilla habitats. Some would rather that zoos and aquariums be more like a "library" with quiet, somber children being educated, rather than like a theme park with loud, excited children having fun.
BlackRhino, I suspect that you might change your mind when you have children of your own.
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The top 5 Zoos I want to visit in the USA are:-
1) Bronx-In summer of course because it looks mind-blowingly incredible and the highlights I most want to see are Congo gorilla forest and the Madagascar house.
2) San Diego-The famous San Diego is in everyones list and for a good reason. It's been one of the most innovative zoos since before I was born.
3) National Zoo-I love the idea of the think tank exhibit and making a zoo even more sciency then it alreadt is. Add the new Asian exhibit, up and coming elephant exhibit and free entry and you've got a pretty good formula.
4) Cincinatti Zoo-Sumatran Rhinos...
5) Central Park Zoo-You can't buy the prestige Central Park Zoo has and ever since I was a kid I've wanted to go there.
1) Bronx-In summer of course because it looks mind-blowingly incredible and the highlights I most want to see are Congo gorilla forest and the Madagascar house.
2) San Diego-The famous San Diego is in everyones list and for a good reason. It's been one of the most innovative zoos since before I was born.
3) National Zoo-I love the idea of the think tank exhibit and making a zoo even more sciency then it alreadt is. Add the new Asian exhibit, up and coming elephant exhibit and free entry and you've got a pretty good formula.
4) Cincinatti Zoo-Sumatran Rhinos...
5) Central Park Zoo-You can't buy the prestige Central Park Zoo has and ever since I was a kid I've wanted to go there.
Sun Wukong
Well-Known Member
I don't think the kids would have to be "somber" - unless they're emo or gothic.
I have seen lots and lots of happy children smiling & enjoying libraries and museums. Education can't always be fun (neither is life), but given the right way of teaching, it might provide plenty, and is even useful for their future existence and that of the world around them.
So why not rather advocate education in zoos than insipid super-and artificial entertainment? And that not just for kids, but adults as well.
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Blackduiker
Well-Known Member
In no particular order:
New York Bronx
Columbus
Cincinnati
Sedgwick County
Kansas City
Omaha Henry Doorly
Washington National
Minnesota
Miami Metro
Memphis
Portland
San Antonio
Philadelphia
Oklahoma City
Denver
Chicago Brookfield
Milwaukee County
New York Bronx
Columbus
Cincinnati
Sedgwick County
Kansas City
Omaha Henry Doorly
Washington National
Minnesota
Miami Metro
Memphis
Portland
San Antonio
Philadelphia
Oklahoma City
Denver
Chicago Brookfield
Milwaukee County
I would not suggest visiting Milwaukee, San Antonio, Portland, or Philadelphia. There are plenty others that are way better.
mweb08
Well-Known Member
Have yet to visit all of these, but generally the top zoo's are considered to be:
San Diego(a member, certainly has some warts, but the best zoo I've been to, great species list, and plenty of good to great exhibits)
Bronx(will go this summer, Congo is often considered the best exhibit in the country, some other great exhibits as well)
Henry Doorly(will go in two weeks, Lied Jungle, Desert Dome, and Kingdoms of the Night are considered by many to be among the best indoor exhibits in the world)
San Diego Wild Animal Park(different than your average zoo visit, great experience, one of if not the best lion exhibit in the country, great open fields)
Columbus(going in 3 weeks, said to not have any poor exhibits, all average to very good, but maybe no great one's, very good collection.)
Miami(lots of moats, so clear views of the animals, very good african species list, pretty much all good exhibits, few if any great ones, although I just missed on seeing the new Amazon exhibit)
Disney's Animal Kingdom(supposed to be a great safari ride, some other very good to great exhibits from what I understand, is a theme park)
San Diego(a member, certainly has some warts, but the best zoo I've been to, great species list, and plenty of good to great exhibits)
Bronx(will go this summer, Congo is often considered the best exhibit in the country, some other great exhibits as well)
Henry Doorly(will go in two weeks, Lied Jungle, Desert Dome, and Kingdoms of the Night are considered by many to be among the best indoor exhibits in the world)
San Diego Wild Animal Park(different than your average zoo visit, great experience, one of if not the best lion exhibit in the country, great open fields)
Columbus(going in 3 weeks, said to not have any poor exhibits, all average to very good, but maybe no great one's, very good collection.)
Miami(lots of moats, so clear views of the animals, very good african species list, pretty much all good exhibits, few if any great ones, although I just missed on seeing the new Amazon exhibit)
Disney's Animal Kingdom(supposed to be a great safari ride, some other very good to great exhibits from what I understand, is a theme park)
ANyhuis
Well-Known Member
Since you asked, I'll answer. First, how often have you seen lots of children in a library (or museum) having F-U-N? Sure, it happens at times, but mostly children are there because they have to be. Contrast this with a theme park -- or a great zoo with some "theme park atmosphere". In these places, happy children are screaming with delight, and they beg their parents to take them there. Add in a pinch of education and you've got a successful story.
As Walt Disney himself said, "I would rather entertain and hope that people learned something than educate people and hope they were entertained." This is a successful business model for both theme parks and zoos. What some forget is that (according to a recent AZA survey) about 75% of all zoo visitors (in the USA) are either children or their parents. So I guess I'm advocating for the 75% and hoping to expand on that 3/4 of the pie. As I've said, if we can get more and more happy, screaming children into zoos -- they (and their parents) will generate more and more revenue, which is good for everyone, including the animals.
Finally, I'll point out that we truly CAN have it both ways! We really can have both education AND fun! Our wonderful, happy friend Sun Wukong seems to think it's an "either/or" thing -- that if we have fun, then it's "insipid super-and artificial entertainment" -- thus void of any real education. He couldn't be more wrong. Anyone whose gone to Disney's Animal Kingdom, Busch Gardens, Sea World, or many of the best zoos has experienced many shows, rides, and animal exhibits which are packed with BOTH fun AND education! The dolphin shows at my local Indianapolis Zoo are one such example -- both fun and educational.
But if you just don't like to sound of children, I understand, stick with libraries and museums.
Sun Wukong
Well-Known Member
"(...)how often have you seen lots of children in a library (or museum) having F-U-N?" or just fun? Very, very often-actually, just yesterday, while visiting a public library in Vienna. Maybe you should visit, or rather, "stick to" libraries more often, @ANyhuis...
Contrary to your assumption, children can and do enjoy themselves without screaming-a feature even child-friendly humans and animals alike consider rather unnerving after a while.
Maybe a lot of things in our current world would be better if people were not easily satisfied with just "a pinch of education", but rather ask for and get more.
Your repeated quotation of Walt Disney underlines once again our different approach to zoos. The majority of zoo visitors are families with kids-it doesn't take an AZA survey to see that.
However, this does not have to mean that every zoo has to be turned into another amusement park, where possible revenues are rather invested in new attractions than in the improvement of the animal husbandry.
Zoos can and should be institutions of science and culture-a role, if looking for example at Lars Lunding Andersen's (director of Zoo Copenhagen) speech during the EAZWV conference 2009, also other zoo pro's aim for.
And no, I do not think it can be "either/or"; you should stop trying to speak in my name, as you (deliberately?) always get it wrong. There is, however, a difference in the quality of entertainment - and the role of serious education in zoos. Judging from the zoo shows I have seen so far, I wouldn't overestimate their educational value, even though there are a few positive examples.
And last but not least: "friend"... Once again?
Contrary to your assumption, children can and do enjoy themselves without screaming-a feature even child-friendly humans and animals alike consider rather unnerving after a while.
Maybe a lot of things in our current world would be better if people were not easily satisfied with just "a pinch of education", but rather ask for and get more.
Your repeated quotation of Walt Disney underlines once again our different approach to zoos. The majority of zoo visitors are families with kids-it doesn't take an AZA survey to see that.
However, this does not have to mean that every zoo has to be turned into another amusement park, where possible revenues are rather invested in new attractions than in the improvement of the animal husbandry.
Zoos can and should be institutions of science and culture-a role, if looking for example at Lars Lunding Andersen's (director of Zoo Copenhagen) speech during the EAZWV conference 2009, also other zoo pro's aim for.
And no, I do not think it can be "either/or"; you should stop trying to speak in my name, as you (deliberately?) always get it wrong. There is, however, a difference in the quality of entertainment - and the role of serious education in zoos. Judging from the zoo shows I have seen so far, I wouldn't overestimate their educational value, even though there are a few positive examples.
And last but not least: "friend"... Once again?
ANyhuis
Well-Known Member
Actually, I go to libraries quite often -- but NEVER when on vacation (or "on holiday", as you Europeans say).
I'm so glad, my friend, that you agree -- zoos can be BOTH educational and fun! But I think you inserted a word that identifies a basic difference between us -- "serious". You want the education to be serious, I want it to be fun. I would suggest that if it's ultra-serious, the kids will learn something, and then never come back. On the contrary, if the education is fun, they'll learn bits and pieces and then want to come back -- where they'll both learn more and generate more necessary revenue.
I think we've identified another key difference between us -- you can't stand to hear children being noisy ("screaming"), while I see this as a natural part of childhood. I would guess that you are like my grumpy Grandpa on (American) Thanksgiving, when -- just after the traditional prayer -- he'd remind us all that, "Children are to be seen, but not heard" (just like in a library, right?).
To quote the Grinch: ""...Oh the noise, noise, noise, noise! If there's one thing I hate...oh the noise, noise, noise, noise!"
I will continue to quote Walt Disney (one of my heroes) because this quote is exactly what I think zoos should follow. But no, I do NOT want zoos to be "turned into another amusement park". If you've ever been to Disney's Animal Kingdom (or the nearby Epcot Center), you'll see that these are NOT "amusement parks" -- they are THEME parks. Yes, they have lots of fun rides, with many screaming children <shudder> on them, but more so they have very specialized themes. In DAK, the theme is animals and their conservation, exotic places (Africa, Asia), with a strong dose of Disney's movie magic. I am suggesting that zoos will attract a lot more visitors -- especially visitors from out of town -- if they become more theme park-ish. That is, exhibit the animals well, and exhibit them with a clear and fun theme. In the USA, San Diego is a perfect example of this, with its excellent natural exhibits, wide range of popular animals, a chance to see them from high up in a sky ride or from a London-style doubledecker bus, and with excellent Sea World quality animal shows.
One of the rules of capitalism is that you have to invest money to make money. The more money that can make, the more they can spend on Sun's beloved "improvement of the animal husbandry" -- which I too think is very important.
I agree -- like Disney's Animal Kingdom!
Sun Wukong
Well-Known Member
Yeah, yeah, depict me as an grumpy old child-hater-that one never gets old (yawn). Get your daily amount of child screaming day and night, old pal, and we'll talk about that matter again. Otherwise-think of the animals, and take another look at what I wrote in the previous post.
Regarding "libraries": well, your vacation and thus abstinence from libraries so far has been rather long, hasn't it? Maybe "quite often" is not often enough...
Just feeding them "bits" increases the likeliness that they get the wrong impression and form their own "half-truths" out of it. Sometimes incomplete knowledge can cause more problems than no knowledge at all...
Keeping wild animals in captivity IS a serious matter and thus shouldn't be treated light-heartedly.
Been to both, and can't see much of difference between an amusement and a "theme" park.
Whether zoos will attract more visitors on the long run if they are all turned into the very same "theme parks" is questionable. I don't think this idea works everywhere, and I don't think it's the ultimate goal to go for. It rather appears to be another "zoo fashion" that will find its followers, but will be replaced by another one in the future, with several zoos (luckily) not accepting it at all.
The improvement of animal husbandry IS probably the most important aspect (which also involves constant children screams...) -at least that you're wise enough to understand. Unfortunately, this is rarely the case in said amusement, eeh, "THEME" parks...
"I agree -- like Disney's Animal Kingdom!" lol, What an absolute scream!
Regarding "libraries": well, your vacation and thus abstinence from libraries so far has been rather long, hasn't it?
Maybe "quite often" is not often enough...Just feeding them "bits" increases the likeliness that they get the wrong impression and form their own "half-truths" out of it. Sometimes incomplete knowledge can cause more problems than no knowledge at all...
Keeping wild animals in captivity IS a serious matter and thus shouldn't be treated light-heartedly.
Been to both, and can't see much of difference between an amusement and a "theme" park.
Whether zoos will attract more visitors on the long run if they are all turned into the very same "theme parks" is questionable. I don't think this idea works everywhere, and I don't think it's the ultimate goal to go for. It rather appears to be another "zoo fashion" that will find its followers, but will be replaced by another one in the future, with several zoos (luckily) not accepting it at all.
The improvement of animal husbandry IS probably the most important aspect (which also involves constant children screams...) -at least that you're wise enough to understand. Unfortunately, this is rarely the case in said amusement, eeh, "THEME" parks...
"I agree -- like Disney's Animal Kingdom!" lol, What an absolute scream!
ANyhuis
Well-Known Member
Actually, I depicted you as my grumpy old Grandpa, whom I loved very much, and he was no child-hater. He just, like you, preferred that children be "seen but not heard". He got very nervous whenever we grandkids made any noise at all, so we stayed pretty "serious" around him.
Regarding "libraries": well, your vacation and thus abstinence from libraries so far has been rather long, hasn't it?
Not sure what you're implying -- that I need to go to the library more often? Why -- to look up what continent Guatemala is in?
Sorry, but you sound like that hard school teacher that everyone dreaded. Education at the Zoo is NOT school! So it why can't it be fun?
Totally agree -- but we were talking about "Education" in zoos -- why does education have to be "serious"?
I don't expect you'll ever change your mind on these things when you can't see the difference between a "theme park" (like DAK or Epcot) and an "amusement park" (like Six Flags or Blackpool). Most of us can see a clear difference between them.
Have you seen the attendance figures for DAK or Busch Gardens? How about for zoos that have added some theme park atmosphere, like Columbus, Lowry Park, or even Omaha? Their attendance numbers are sky-rocketing. But again, I'm NOT advocating "turning zoos into theme parks", only adding some great theme park atmosphere, like at Fort Worth.
Question: Have you ever been to Disney's Animal Kingdom? If so, you'd see that they are among the best at research and animal husbandry. Their reputation is very good at these things.
ANyhuis
Well-Known Member
I just had a play around with the list of AZA zoos and came up with ten short-ish road trips that I'd love to do if, as might one day happen, I live in the US for a couple of years. Each of these trips are supposed to be of 2-3 weeks duration and would obviously take in other attractions along the way.
The Pacific Northwest trip:
- Vancouver Aquarium
- Woodland Park Zoo
- Northwest Trek Wildlife Park
- Point Defiance Zoo and Aquarium
- Oregon Zoo
The Southern California trip:
- Monterey Bay Aquarium
- Aquarium of the Pacific
- Los Angeles Zoo
- San Diego Zoo
- San Diego Wild Animal Park
- SeaWorld San Diego
The Southwestern trip
- Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum
- Phoenix Zoo
- Cheyenne Mountain Zoo
- Denver Zoo
The Great Plains trip
- Henry Doorly Zoo
- Sedgwick County Zoo
- Kansas City Zoo
- Oklahoma City Zoo
The Texas trip
- Dallas Zoo
- Fort Worth Zoo
- Fossil Rim Wildlife Center
- Houston Zoo
The Deep South trip
- North Carolina Zoo
- Memphis Zoo
- Zoo Atlanta
- Georgia Aquarium
- Audubon Zoo
The Florida trip
- Miami Metrozoo
- Disney's Animal Kingdom
- Lowry Park Zoo
- Jacksonville Zoo
- St. Augustine Alligator Farm
The BosWash trip
- Smithsonian National Zoo
- National Aquarium in Baltimore
- Philadelphia Zoo
- Bronx Zoo
- Franklin Park Zoo
The Ohio (and nearby) trip
- Louisville Zoo
- Columbus Zoo and Aquarium
- Cincinnati Zoo
- The Wilds
- Cleveland Metroparks Zoo
- Indianapolis Zoo
The Mid-west trip
- St Louis Zoo
- Brookfield Zoo
- John G. Shedd Aquarium
- Lincoln Park Zoo
- Detroit Zoo
- Minnesota Zoo
A few eccentricities there - the idea of a zoo on a mountainside intrigues me (Cheyenne Mountain) - I'm thinking Taronga but even steeper! St. Augustine, with its 23 species of crocodilians, sounds fascinating. I've got a few open range zoos and what seem to be the best six aquariums by repute in the continent. A handful of others are zoos that might not be on the list if they were not in cities I'd like to visit anyway (Lincoln Park, Franklin Park, Houston). Might have a similar look at European zoos, though that would be inappropriate for this thread.
The Pacific Northwest trip:
- Vancouver Aquarium
- Woodland Park Zoo
- Northwest Trek Wildlife Park
- Point Defiance Zoo and Aquarium
- Oregon Zoo
The Southern California trip:
- Monterey Bay Aquarium
- Aquarium of the Pacific
- Los Angeles Zoo
- San Diego Zoo
- San Diego Wild Animal Park
- SeaWorld San Diego
The Southwestern trip
- Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum
- Phoenix Zoo
- Cheyenne Mountain Zoo
- Denver Zoo
The Great Plains trip
- Henry Doorly Zoo
- Sedgwick County Zoo
- Kansas City Zoo
- Oklahoma City Zoo
The Texas trip
- Dallas Zoo
- Fort Worth Zoo
- Fossil Rim Wildlife Center
- Houston Zoo
The Deep South trip
- North Carolina Zoo
- Memphis Zoo
- Zoo Atlanta
- Georgia Aquarium
- Audubon Zoo
The Florida trip
- Miami Metrozoo
- Disney's Animal Kingdom
- Lowry Park Zoo
- Jacksonville Zoo
- St. Augustine Alligator Farm
The BosWash trip
- Smithsonian National Zoo
- National Aquarium in Baltimore
- Philadelphia Zoo
- Bronx Zoo
- Franklin Park Zoo
The Ohio (and nearby) trip
- Louisville Zoo
- Columbus Zoo and Aquarium
- Cincinnati Zoo
- The Wilds
- Cleveland Metroparks Zoo
- Indianapolis Zoo
The Mid-west trip
- St Louis Zoo
- Brookfield Zoo
- John G. Shedd Aquarium
- Lincoln Park Zoo
- Detroit Zoo
- Minnesota Zoo
A few eccentricities there - the idea of a zoo on a mountainside intrigues me (Cheyenne Mountain) - I'm thinking Taronga but even steeper! St. Augustine, with its 23 species of crocodilians, sounds fascinating. I've got a few open range zoos and what seem to be the best six aquariums by repute in the continent. A handful of others are zoos that might not be on the list if they were not in cities I'd like to visit anyway (Lincoln Park, Franklin Park, Houston). Might have a similar look at European zoos, though that would be inappropriate for this thread.
ANyhuis
Well-Known Member
Good list, CGSwans! I have a few reactions, but nothing serious. I'd recommend Milwaukee or Toledo, instead of Detroit. I would try to squeeze in the Tennessee Aquarium (possibly a Top 5 aquarium) onto the same trip with Atlanta. I also think the Memphis Zoo is probably the best zoo you're leaving out. I also wouldn't go in any way out of your way to get to The Wilds. It's very limited, and simply not worth any kind of extra journey. They get about 20,000 people a year there.
Milwaukee instead of Detroit? Detroit has probably the second best exhibit in the country after CGF. I don't know anything that Milwaukee has that is that good. I do know that they are planning a new gathering place rather than renovate their outdated exhibits like their elephants.
ANyhuis
Well-Known Member
Second best??? It's good, but not that good! It's primarily a one species habitat, which puts it behind many of the multispecies African savannas and rain forest exhibits.
Just my opinion, but Milwaukee is just a far more complete zoo. It also has far more for children.