Bronx Zoo My Beef With The Bronx

snowleopard

snowleopard

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I once began a popular thread asking if San Diego Zoo was overrated, as many folks on ZooChat consider it to be their #1 zoo in the United States. There are probably just as many people who would choose the Bronx Zoo as their #1 favourite, and when I visited this zoo in the summer of 2008 I was duly impressed by the huge collection and outstanding exhibits sprinkled within 265 acres of New York City parkland. If you are a zoo fan and have not visited either the Bronx or San Diego (or Omaha, Columbus, Woodland Park, Saint Louis, etc) then it is time to book a trip!

I have literally seen over 100 zoos/aquariums in the United States and I have no problem putting the Bronx Zoo in my personal #2 position. However, I wonder if I would be so enamoured with the zoo if I visited in the dead of winter, especially considering some of the closed exhibits that dot the grounds. Since my tour in 2008 the zoo has closed the World of Darkness (nocturnal house), Skyfari ride, Rare Animal Range and Monkey House without opening anything new of any substance. There has been financial pressure put upon the zoo due to the economic recession, and there is nothing on the horizon to rival what is being built at many other American zoos.

On top of the 4 areas that have been closed in the past 4 years the zoo also has very limited access to many sections in the off-season. The Children's Zoo is only open for around 6 months a year and some of the animals in the African Plains are off-exhibit for at least 6 months of the year. I cannot imagine how cramped the giraffes are in the Carter Giraffe House for most of their lives. Also, the Wild Asia Monorail is closed for almost half the year, the Zoo Shuttle is shut down for half the year, naturally the Butterfly Garden is closed all winter long, and even Congo Gorilla Forest has animals off-exhibit for many months each year.

Lastly, I can fully understand paying extra fees for things like carousels, 4D theaters and various rides and shows, but now the Bronx Zoo charges $5 for entrance to Congo Gorilla Forest (which goes towards conservation in Africa), a few dollars for its Children's Zoo and $4 for JungleWorld. Will we see the day when Omaha's Henry Doorly Zoo starts charging extra fees to tour Lied Jungle, Kingdoms of the Night and Desert Dome?

I have often pointed out on this forum that one of the incredibly rewarding benefits of San Diego Zoo is that all of the exhibit areas are open year-round and with even longer hours than the 10-5 that the Bronx Zoo has had for years. For all of the awards that zoos like Woodland Park and Bronx have won for their fantastic exhibits I would still take San Diego's amazing collection and overall habitats any day of the week. To use the old, familiar names: Monkey Trails and Forest Tales, Ituri Forest, Gorilla Tropics, Polar Bear Plunge, Giant Panda Research Station, Reptile House, Reptile Mesa, Tiger River, Absolutely Apes, African Kopje and the massive aviaries (Scripps, Owens, Birds of Prey) are all top-notch. Elephant Odyssey might have disappointed many long-term fans but at least there are long hours, no extra fees and a bright future at the world-famous southern California zoo.
 
So what would you boil your "beef with the Bronx" down to ultimately? That the animals are inside boxes for prolonged periods? Isn't this true of most northern zoos in the northern hemisphere?

I think that San Diego and the Bronx share a common problem which is that they are so large that upgrading of subpar exhibits cannot keep up with the changing standards that they need to. I think that this is probably less a problem for the Bronx than San Diego, as they seem to be dealing with the problem by shutting down old exhibits entirely rather than renovating (e.g., "World of Darkness", planned closure of elephant program). San Diego has some really quite bad exhibits with no indication of when and if they are going to upgrade them (e.g., the whole giraffe exhibit at the zoo is possibly no larger than the Bronx Zoo giraffe barn is; at least the Bronx Zoo giraffes have a great yard for majority of the year).

I would argue that the truly greatest zoos are those that have no inadequate exhibits and are constantly in a state of renovation and improvement. To my mind the Monterey Bay Aquarium leads that category for captive animal facilities in the U.S. Woodland Park Zoo would be up there too, but they have a massive blind spot/denial problem I think with the inadequacy of their elephant exhibit which may not be large enough for modern standards, even though it is a very attractive environment.

I would propose that in some ways that the Smithsonian National Zoo sets a standard of excellence for major zoos in North America that may be better than San Diego or the Bronx, or at least their equal. They seem to be paring down their collections to the animals that they feel balance what zoo visitors really want (need?) to see and building really good modern homes for them. Instead of maintaining African and Asian elephants, giraffes, river hippos, pygmy hippos, and rhinos in cramped, archaic conditions they decided to focus only on a herd of Asian elephants and build them a modern exhibit. I think that this ethos is at work at the Bronx Zoo too, more so than at San Diego which still very much seems to have an increasingly archaic need to throw as many species as possible on exhibit, regardless of their ability to adequately exhibit them.
 
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I've always thought the Bronx Zoo to be highly overrated for many reasons, many of which Snowleopard already mentioned. Their admission price,almost $30 in the summer, has not gone down even though they keep closing attractions. Please,please,please don't even tell me about them replacing the Monkey House with a 4D movie ride. Plus, you have to pay $13 to park. If you buy the Total Experience ticket you don't really have to worry about it, but I don't agree with a separate admission to enjoy different areas WITHIN the zoo. For me, as a hoofstock fan, they don't really have any mindblowingly awesome animals. The closest exception to that is the Wild Asia monorail and you can't see those animals unless you ride the monorail. Some of their signs around their Africa section are old and outdated with animals listed that they don't even have anymore.
But I think my biggest complaint with the Bronx is their attitude. They believe and act like they are above everybody else. I'll give a few personal examples. They have limited parking. A couple of years ago, I drove 3 hours to go there. They had closed the parking lots because they had reached the point of being full. The problem was people were leaving and they weren't letting the line of cars waiting on the highway to come in. They were turning everybody away but then they talk about money shortages constantly. Another example, I was there last year and started talking to a keeper(who was very nice). I mentioned that I was a keeper at another zoo and did they ever give any behind the scenes tours? She said they weren't allowed by management. She wished they could and didn't think it was fair that they could go to another zoo and go behind the scenes but if those keepers came to her zoo, she couldn't give the same welcome. Now a current example. I read that Bronx has acquired a pair of Kiwi. I have called numerous times and have left a couple of messages to try to verify this. No responses yet. Guest Relations won't answer the question either.
That's my rant as to why I think the Bronx is highly overrated.
 
I am in the final planning stages for this summer's road trip, and I'm extremely tempted to add the Bronx Zoo to the itinerary as I have such fond memories of its greatness from my 2008 visit. However, with 4 attractions having closed in the past 4 years (and nothing added other than perhaps aardvarks) I feel as if the zoo has stalled. The WCS (Wildlife Conservation Society) does a lot of fantastic work overseas which I applaud, but the limited parking opportunities at the zoo, the extra fees for certain areas of the facility and the extremely limited hours makes me question whether it is worth the effort of driving into New York City and making a stop in the Bronx.

I've also been questioning the efforts of many northern zoos, as major zoological establishments in the southern half of the United States often have longer hours and the animals are on exhibit for a greater portion of their lives due to the warmer temperatures all year long. As I wrote earlier the experience of seeing the Bronx Zoo in the height of its glory in the middle of summer must be far different from touring it in the 6 months of the year when a good portion of the animals are locked into barns. I think that many northern zoos should place a much greater emphasis on cold-weather animals, and seeing photos in the ZooChat gallery of Cincinnati Zoo in winter is shocking. Many zoos down south are the same all year long, with minimum days when any major animals are off exhibit, and thus the zoo-going experience rarely changes. Some might argue that those zoos could be boring!

Overall, I question the extra fees that the Bronx Zoo charges (especially for JungleWorld), the closing down of numerous attractions, the parking situation, and the general feeling that the future is not nearly as bright as at many other top-notch American zoos. For example many people feel that Omaha's Henry Doorly Zoo has some wonderful exhibits, and there are plans for $180 million in improvements. Columbus Zoo will be perhaps the most complete zoo in North America once the massive African Savanna area is built in the next few years. Saint Louis Zoo is almost flawless and the current campaign is to raise $120 million to overhaul the sea lion pool and bear grottoes. North Carolina Zoo is already brilliant and if money is obtained for a future Asian section then I can scarcely imagine how great that zoo will become. Zoo Miami is already one of the best in the United States, and the $50 million "Amazon & Beyond" will soon be followed by 2014's $40 million "Mission: Florida Everglades".

I just listed 5 zoos that have impressive futures as long as financing remains a distinct possibility, but with the Bronx Zoo the future is a little less secure. Is it still one of the best zoos in America (and possibly the world) or is it only truly great for a few months each year? Is there some validity to that point of view?
 
The Bronx Zoo does seem to be going through a lull, as all zoos do in periods. They are going through a leadership transition and they have been hit very hard by the recession (hence the closing of so many exhibits without replacement presumably). Their current capital improvement efforts seem to be focused on building a new shark aquarium at the New York Aquarium.

The point about being charged for multiple exhibits is a very good one. After awhile I can imagine that visitors would feel "nibbled to death by ducks", or at least their wallets, after paying A LOT of money for parking and entrance. Charging for Jungle World in particular sounds rather galling as the exhibit is 30ish years old and is very good, but not especially spectacular relative to some other zoo rain forest exhibits. Congo Gorilla Forest at least has a good reason for charging people with the funds raised going to field conservation of wild gorillas (I assume that this is still true?!).

The Bronx Zoo definitely shares a flaw with Disney's Animal Kingdom in that some of the animals that people want to see most (i.e., elephants, Indian rhinos, tigers on Wild Asia) are viewable only for seconds, and only for part of the year, which is really lame at the base of it. At least at Disney you can get on the safari ride as many times as you want and probably most of the visitors there go to their local zoo to see giraffes, elephants, hippos, etc. when they really want to see them.

From talking with folks involved with the Bronx Zoo they are greatly aware of this problem (and have been for years), but the solution for the elephants at least is that no elephants will be at the zoo. Hopefully under new leadership there will be some exciting new exhibits in the pipeline at the zoo and their financial situation will recover enough to build them.
 
DavidBrown said:
The Bronx Zoo does seem to be going through a lull, as all zoos do in periods. They are going through a leadership transition and they have been hit very hard by the recession (hence the closing of so many exhibits without replacement presumably). Their current capital improvement efforts seem to be focused on building a new shark aquarium at the New York Aquarium.

The point about being charged for multiple exhibits is a very good one. After awhile I can imagine that visitors would feel "nibbled to death by ducks", or at least their wallets, after paying A LOT of money for parking and entrance. Charging for Jungle World in particular sounds rather galling as the exhibit is 30ish years old and is very good, but not especially spectacular relative to some other zoo rain forest exhibits. Congo Gorilla Forest at least has a good reason for charging people with the funds raised going to field conservation of wild gorillas (I assume that this is still true?!).

The Bronx Zoo definitely shares a flaw with Disney's Animal Kingdom in that some of the animals that people want to see most (i.e., elephants, Indian rhinos, tigers on Wild Asia) are viewable only for seconds, and only for part of the year, which is really lame at the base of it. At least at Disney you can get on the safari ride as many times as you want and probably most of the visitors there go to their local zoo to see giraffes, elephants, hippos, etc. when they really want to see them.

From talking with folks involved with the Bronx Zoo they are greatly aware of this problem (and have been for years), but the solution for the elephants at least is that no elephants will be at the zoo. Hopefully under new leadership there will be some exciting new exhibits in the pipeline at the zoo and their financial situation will recover enough to build them.
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I agree with pretty much everything above. However, it should be noted that while the Bronx Zoo may seem to be in a bit of a lull, WCS has more than doubled its annual expenditures for conservation over the past decade. They, among all of the many zoos that tout their conservation mission, are actually putting the resources there and acheiving results. And while no new exhibits have opened in recent years to counterbalance the closing of outmoded buildings like WOD and the Monkey House, well over $200 million HAS been expended in bringing the park's 115-year old infrastructure up to modern standards. No one sees the pipes, roofs, cogeneration plants, animal health facilities or administrative spaces, but these were very real needs that are being addressed, and have set up the new administration of the zoo in a much better position than was the case a decade ago.

And don't underestimate the expense and difficulty of renovating listed historic buildings like the Lion and Monkey Houses into new uses that respect the architectural heritage yet meet modern standards of exhibition. While Omaha can slap up a cinderblock building and call it "Madagascar," the Bronx had to deal with an irreplaceable architectural treasure, work with tough city regulations and high construction costs, a self-imposed goal to make the building a model of sustainable design, AND create a great Madagascar exhibit with connections to the field programs of WCS. More great things are in store for the Bronx Zoo, as from all indications the new President of WCS will bring renewed focus on the facilities as well as the field, but we will have to be patient.
 
reduakari said:
I agree with pretty much everything above. However, it should be noted that while the Bronx Zoo may seem to be in a bit of a lull, WCS has more than doubled its annual expenditures for conservation over the past decade. They, among all of the many zoos that tout their conservation mission, are actually putting the resources there and acheiving results. And while no new exhibits have opened in recent years to counterbalance the closing of outmoded buildings like WOD and the Monkey House, well over $200 million HAS been expended in bringing the park's 115-year old infrastructure up to modern standards. No one sees the pipes, roofs, cogeneration plants, animal health facilities or administrative spaces, but these were very real needs that are being addressed, and have set up the new administration of the zoo in a much better position than was the case a decade ago.
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These are great points. It seems like many, if not most, zoos need some serious infrastructure investment, especially older zoos that find themselves with leaky water pipes and deteriorating electrical systems. The LA Zoo had to rebuild their parking lot and rebuild the sewer and power systems in addition to the new animal exhibits. This is very frustrating for people when they see the millions of dollars that they voted for in bond measures not resulting in new exhibits for prolonged periods of time, but I guess that is a challenge for effective zoo management to "sell" to their constituencies to the degree that they can.

Also an extremely important point about WCS. If all zoos had their own WCS, or even a small version of it appropriately scaled to a particular zoo's size (and hopefully many more will), then zoos will have evolved into what they state they want to be (i.e., truly effective wildlife conservation organizations). Integrating these programs into zoo exhibits so that this work is meaningful to zoo visitors is also part of this challenge. More or less WCS is demonstrating what that looks like and that alone perhaps is enough to be truly great, in my opinion.
 
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Phantom Gaur feels the same way about the Bronx Zoo as I do. As he states, they don't have many mind-blowing species, I, along with most of you (I'm sure all of you!) find the many excess fees very irritating, the recent closures, etc. Are the exhibits the only thing keeping this zoo in the higher rankings? And how are they doing this, when the majority of them are 50%-closed during winter? However, the Bronx Zoo has (quoted from reduakari), "dealt with an irreplaceable architectural treasure, worked with tough city regulations and high construction costs, a self-imposed goal to make the building a model of sustainable design, AND created a great Madagascar exhibit with connections to the field programs of WCS."

In your opinion, having stated all of the future plans of other great zoos around the country, where does the Bronx Zoo stand as of now? You, DavidBrown, and reduakari all have great points. I'd like to hear your thoughts on how you feel the Bronx is doing and how it stacks up to the already-great zoos and the up-and-coming zoos.
 
Charging extra to see animals inside the zoo is disgusting and should not be tolerated. The one time I visited I was really disappointed at having to buy an extra ticket at the entrance to Congo Gorilla Forest. It is not only the extra fee, but then you can only go through once and if you want to go back later to see the gorillas on your way out, you have to pay again. When I was a child, theme parks like Knotts and Disneyland had pay per ride tickets, but they finally realized this was a bad system and went to the much better general admission plan. Bronx is going backwards with their system.

As I have said on other threads, I agree 100% with the notion mentioned earlier that northern latitude zoos should focus on cold adapted animals that can stay out year round. Minnesota Zoo is a brilliant example.

I did not spend enough time at Bronx Zoo to truly rate it among other zoos. But I also remember being very disappointed that some animals could only be seen briefly from the monorail. (At that time even the tigers fit this situation). As I have also stated on ZooChat (and I am in the minority here), neither San Diego nor the Bronx would make my top five, let alone positions one and two.
 
Arizona Docent said:
Charging extra to see animals inside the zoo is disgusting and should not be tolerated. The one time I visited I was really disappointed at having to buy an extra ticket at the entrance to Congo Gorilla Forest. It is not only the extra fee, but then you can only go through once and if you want to go back later to see the gorillas on your way out, you have to pay again. When I was a child, theme parks like Knotts and Disneyland had pay per ride tickets, but they finally realized this was a bad system and went to the much better general admission plan. Bronx is going backwards with their system.
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The Bronx Zoo is the only place that I have seen where there are additional charges to see the animals. Does anybody know of other places? I guess that the SD Safari Park now charges people for their premiere African safari tour that replaces the monorail.

I agree generally that it is weird that they do it. The Congo Gorilla Forest at least had an innovative reason for doing it (i.e., the funds go to wildlife conservation for Congo species and the visitor gets to decide which), but I have to say that I'm glad that more zoos didn't follow that model exactly. Instead what they seem to be doing increasingly is charging an extra quarter surcharge for zoo admission and then giving visitors a choice of field projects to support with their conservation contribution. My understanding is that this started at the Boise Zoo and has spread.

I could be wrong but I think that the reason that this system started at the Bronx Zoo is that they had free days in the past where people could enter the grounds and see most of the animals for free, but some of the exhibits were put behind a "paywall". The Congo Gorilla Forest at least has some free gorilla viewing at the front. Wild Asian and Jungleworld don't have this.
 
Yes the quarters for conservation model is excellent. (I mean what visitor is going to complain about an extra 25 cents?). I would have had no problem being charged extra up front at the admission gate to Bronx and then given a token to put in once I got to Congo Forest. But to have to pay at the exhibit entrance and then pay again to go through again is obscene.

Yes SD Safari Park does now charge for the ride, which is a shame, but at least you can see the major part of the savanna (east africa) without going on the ride.

Zoos have always had fees for extra activities, like camel rides or giraffe feeding, and I think that is reasonable. But to make you pay a la carte to see certain animals - ridiculous.
 
DavidBrown said:
I could be wrong but I think that the reason that this system started at the Bronx Zoo is that they had free days in the past where people could enter the grounds and see most of the animals for free, but some of the exhibits were put behind a "paywall". The Congo Gorilla Forest at least has some free gorilla viewing at the front. Wild Asian and Jungleworld don't have this.
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True
On free days at the Bronx Zoo, the Wild Asia train, JungleWorld and some other spots would be impossible if the attendees had not been limited. Many days the crowds in the zoo were unbelievable. Many days the vandalism was unbelievable too.
 
Arizona Docent said:
Yes SD Safari Park does now charge for the ride, which is a shame, but at least you can see the major part of the savanna (east africa) without going on the ride.
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The ticket to ride the African Tram is the same ticket that everyone buys to get into the park. So its not an additional cost. Unless you want to buy an additional "safari." The whole "Choose Your Own Safari" thing basically lumped all their experiences together so people can choose what they want to do. From the outside it probably is confusing as ever, but if you're a guest walking up and you want to choose your own safari, you might choose a more expensive one because you're selecting a experience.

In regards to the Bronx, they are suffering just like everyone else but the WCS that manages them are still doing a great job. As reduakari states, they have not been sitting around as it may seem but they are continuing to look outwardly by pursuing conservation. There are very few zoos that maintain a commitment to conservation as much as the WCS.

While agree what has been said, I must point out that the Bronx is the very few institutions that respect design by having a design department. They have been perfecting landscape immersion for quite so time and there is no zoo that puts as much effort into making a flawless design as the Bronx. The higher prices are part of the zoo being able to supplement this. WPZ and Minnesota are design-minded but I think they don't have their own departments for exhibit design. San Diego does, but it seems more as a tool for themselves to get stuff done faster with the zoo in the conductor seat.

I have heard the revenue problems of the WCS, why it is had to close down a few exhibits, is partly because it owns the Bronx, but manages city-run zoos as well. I don't know the details of the situation, but the WCS's management is stretched over those responsibilities but doesn't seem to receive enough compensation. Maybe someone who knows more about this can elaborate?
 
I love the bronx zoo and think of it as the best zoo in the u.s. The wcs is a huge organiztaion that is in the top 200 charities in america. They spend about one third of there money on conservation according to there latest annual report. You have to remember that the WCS shares money between its zoos so the ussauly rotate where the next new exhibit is. The bronx zoo in the past recieved most of this money so now its the aquariums turn and by the looks of it it will be the best shark exhibit in the us.
 
I have zero problem with charging extra to visit Jungle World or CGF. The money spent means that these exhibits will have an "extra special" aura around them. For someone who is able to visit the zoo regularly, it will be a special treat to see these. Remember, we zoo nerds are the large minority and not the zoo's target audience. Those of us who drive across country will no doubt shell out a few extra bucks to see a world class exhibit. Your average tourist or local might not.

I can also see it as an easy means of crowd control. I probably have more experience than most on here with zoo crowd control, and I can honestly say that it can be a major issue.
 
The extra cost for different exhibits/sections doesn't really bother me as you can just buy the total experience package if you like, which makes the most sense to do. It is expensive, yet that should be expected in NYC.

The weather is clearly a big disadvantage compared to San Diego among other zoos, but there's not much they can do about that. Having more indoor exhibits and cold weather animals are obviously the alternatives. I have been in the winter, and it'd definitely not nearly as great of a zoo then, but again, I expect that and don't dock the zoo that much for it.

The monorail is disappointing to me in that some very exciting animals are seen on it, but you have very little time to view them.

It's also too bad that the no barrier lemur exhibit has apparently been netted off.

So yeah, it is overrated in some ways as it's generally rated with warm weather in mind, but it's still a great zoo that has a plethora of top notch exhibits.
 
And David, the SDZ's giraffe exhibit is easily larger than the giraffe house at the Bronx Zoo.
 
mweb08 said:
And David, the SDZ's giraffe exhibit is easily larger than the giraffe house at the Bronx Zoo.
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Perhaps, but I doubt by much. Their outdoor yards certainly are not comparable in size, with Bronx's being much larger (albeit only accessible to them part of the year).

Bronx Zoo giraffe barn (photo by snowleopard): http://www.zoochat.com/547/bronx-zoo-giraffe-house-41142/

Bronx Zoo giraffe yard (photo by snowleopard): http://www.zoochat.com/547/bronx-zoo-giraffes-41234/

San Diego Zoo giraffe yard (photo by geomorph):
http://www.zoochat.com/39/urban-jungle-giraffe-soemmerrings-gazelle-exhibit-117791/
 
I'm quite sure it's larger by a fair margin.

Now you're right that the Bronx Zoo's outdoor exhibit is significantly better and that SDZ should upgrade their giraffe exhibit, but I think you were overstating things quite a bit.
 
mweb08 said:
I'm quite sure it's larger by a fair margin.

Now you're right that the Bronx Zoo's outdoor exhibit is significantly better and that SDZ should upgrade their giraffe exhibit, but I think you were overstating things quite a bit.
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Have you seen the "new" San Diego Zoo giraffe exhibit? I was there last week and was very disappointed. I'm not actually sure that I am overstating things, but short of someone here posting dimensions (which seems possible given the depth of zoo nerd knowledge here) I have no data. I will leave it at saying that Bronx Zoo's giraffes get a better deal than San Diego for the amount of the year that they get to be outside. When they are cooped up in their box in the winter, it may be a comparable experience.
 
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