My real plan, for a real zoo

[Nikola Chavkoski]

Allright, here is my real plan for a real zoo. Some lacking data would be appreciated, everyone is welcome to comment, but please keep in mind, that everything I plan to do is to be legal. And these are only the expected developments, but what future holds is another thing.

Since there are no specific requirements for sizes for enclosures for zoo animals in my country (North Macedonia), my architect does not realy know where to look for, when designing the enclosures. I suggest him: We should look at the existing zoos in this country. I also searched some sources, in regards to sizes of enclosures for big cats, and found data like:

-Minimum 37m2/per big cat outdoor enclosure, and a minimum indoor den for each individual big cat of 2.4x2.4m (UK sources). Minimum height of fence, 3.5m (lions, tigers).
-Minimim 28m2/per big cat outdoor enclosure, minimum height 4.88m (US sources)
-Minimum 200m2 outdoor enclosure for jaguars, plus indoor exhibit area (in areas where tempetatures drops below 10°C, practicaly whole of Europe). And then den for each cat (minimum 5.8m2 per jaguar); Den like an indoor place, smaller than indoor exhibit area. (EAZA best practice guideline for jaguar) (still no specific guidelines for lions or tigers). So I am not clear, whether a zoo should have both indoor exhibit area and a den, or only a den is enough (as indoor enclosure).

-My initial plan, bare minimum:
-At least one tiger, generic acceptable, at least two siamangs, at least 3 red-necked wallabies, all obtained from European zoos. Hyacinth macaws obtained as pets, and held in the zoo.

-Planed for construction (only on approximately 4,500m2, the other 3,500m2 will stay free for future enlargement). And probably more land around this location, will be purchased.

-"Green belt" from the perimeter fence to the enclosure fences, from trees, 5m wide, not walkable by visitors, for more natural surroundings for the animal, and enveloping around half of enclosure sides.

-Tiger outdoor area, 32x32m, (total area 1,024m2) divided into 4 parts (16×16m, so each 256m2), with a connection tunnel between them for conducting tigers. Fence height 6 m, double fence, with upper 2 m pointed inwards at 45°, in concrete foundations. A maximum holding capacity for 4 adult tigers. I will heavily rest on natural decouring, like living trees (only 3 species, I don't like colourfull botanical mix). One room, a fridge for tiger food (whole pray, from slaughter plant). Indoor dens, four, ranging in sizes from 9 to 14m2), in a single building (64m2), with one entry via hygienical barrier for personel only, and observed from outside by visitors through big windows. Dens with sand substrate, trees pins. One separation cage. Dens more suitable for Sumatran or Malayan tigers, than Amur or generic, since Amur tiger is double the size of the first two subspecies (so Amur tiger is a "Bear tiger", you get two Sumatran tigers in one ).

-Siamang outdoor area, 20x20m, divided into 4 enclosures (10x10m). Indoor pens, four, in a building 64m2, where also will be rooms for "Veterinary service at a husbandry facility", with rooms for clinical examination, storage of drugs, preparation of vaccines, infrared camera as non-invasive examination method, and for personel. One room for monkey food storage and preparation. Capacity for up to 13-14 siamangs, 4 families.

-Kangaroo/ or wallaby enclosure, 50m long, 15 wide. For one kangaroo mob. Kangaroo indoor shelter, 25m2.
-Aviary for hyacinth macaws.
-Building (36m2) for isolation of (newly arrived) animal, with acces to outdoor pen. Perimeter fence, 4.5 m high.

-Since I can't relly only on income generated from ticket sales, I work hard on other projects with real-estate, as an long term inssurance for support of the planned zoo.

-This is a bare minimum (one generic tiger, two siamangs, 3 red-necked wallabies, 2 macaws). Much better would be for example, 2 Sumatran tigers, 6 siamangs, a rarer macropod like a mob from swamp wallabies or from gray kangaroos.

-My greater ambition goes to second stage enlargement with giraffes (for crowd pull). Possibly bringing new Sumatran tigers from captivity in Indonesia, or Malayan tigers.

-Third stage ambition, bringing new genes with import of two subadult orangutans, male and female, from captivity in Indonesia or Malaysia that will be keept together untill they produce the first offspring, after which the male will leave for other zoo for breeding purposes within EEP. Adding leopards (preferably Sri Lankan), more birds (hornbills, vultures, cassowary, other parrots), a reptile house (rhinoceros vipers, Western green mamba, Siamese spitting cobras, Uracoan rattlesnakes, Komodo dragon, crocodile). Maybe adding more mammals, like Malayan tapir, lemurs.

-The ultimate level ambition, highest-rise, if powerfull enough, is to buy more land, and to bring black rhinoceroses and koalas (from Australia). Preferably Eastern black rhino (but import from Africa almost immposible), but because there is a lack of black rhinoceros in Europe and high demand for, I would want import first of a male and female South-central black rhinoceroses from South Africa.

-Building small regional network with zoos in neighboring Serbia and Bulgaria, to combine efforts and resources for obtaining and keeping of some species, like Malayan tiger if there is a surplus from captivity.

-Enforcing exciting in situ conservation project (New Guinea?)

-Expected time-frame: 2023 obtaining construction permit. 2024/2025 construction. 2026 equiping, training and obtaining licences. 2026/2027 first animals?

-I must notify I am not rich. In 2017 I purchased 3,200m2 of land. Then I had only 1,000 euro on my bank account. Last year, I purchased additional 5,000m2 adjacent to those bought previously.

- I hope so someone will find this motivational, especially younger people. But I will keep trying untill my 60s years of age, since this was my life dream.
-Why I am posting this at all? Because it makes me a little bit happier and excited. Would be great if more examples follows.

 

[birdsandbats]

Deja Vu.

 

[Great Argus]

but please keep in mind, that everything I plan to do is to be legal.

Then why did you need to state it? Raises questions more than anything.

Also looking through the stated design and plans there's quite a number of rather unusual intents and setups that aren't what's recommended...

 

[CGSwans]

Future headline: “Man mauled by tiger in home-built North Macedonia zoo.”

 

[Nikola Chavkoski]

there's quite a number of rather unusual intents and setups that aren't what's recommended...

Which?

 

[Jana]

Rules for keeping big cats differ by country, here is what is currently legal minimums by law in Czechia for Amur tigers:

- outside enclosure minimum 300 m2 for first 2 animals, 150 m2 for any additional one
- indoor box minimum 20 m2 per animal, min height 2,2m
- if your pen is open on top, you need walls/fence at least 4 m high, 40cm concrete layer under ground or 1 meter of fence deep underground, top of fence is overhang 50cm or electric fence on inside
- if you have dry moat, 9m wide and 4m deep, plus electric fence
- if you have watter moat, 7,5 m wide, 4m deep, outer wall 1,5m with electric fence or overhang 0,5m, or simple outer wall 2 m over water surface
- at least 2/3 of outside enclosure must have natural surface
- enclosure must be structured and have resting spaces at elevated spots
- at least 1 sheltered/roofed spot per animal
- existence of separation pens or boxes (inside or outside) for cleaning
- water pool in outside enclosure of at least 2m2 und 0,5 deep for bathing
- flat wooden platforms inside inner enclosures
- double secured animal spaces (animals are kept behind at least 2 secured doors)

Minimums for "warm" tigers differ in these details:
- outside enclosure minimum 200 m2 for first 2 animals, 100 m2 for any additional one
- indoor box minimum 12 m2 per animal, min height 2m
- access to space heated with temperature over 15 Celsius at all times

 

[Great Argus]

Which?

A fair few things;

Siamang outdoor area, 20x20m, divided into 4 enclosures (10x10m). Indoor pens, four, in a building 64m2, where also will be rooms for "Veterinary service at a husbandry facility", with rooms for clinical examination, storage of drugs, preparation of vaccines, infrared camera as non-invasive examination method, and for personel. One room for monkey food storage and preparation. Capacity for up to 13-14 siamangs, 4 families.

Gibbons are recommended to have no less than 30m x 7m for larger species, and a large indoor room in colder climates besides standard night quarters. The current space allotted does not match that. Additionally gibbons are highly territorial and if kept in close proximity to other pairs can cause issues in pair formation and inhibit parental care even to the point of parents killing their own infants. It's recommended to house pairs/family groups at least 75m apart with no visual contact, and you want to build four exhibits off the same building?

-I must notify I am not rich

Also you state this, but you plan to start with animals that are expensive to aquire and maintain? Tigers are not cheap to feed and Siamangs require a heated environment when it's cool, and neither is cheap to obtain - likewise Hyacinth Macaws are among the most expensive, you mention getting them as pet birds, which if you mean hand-raised increases the price further.
This trend follows all the way through the plan: giraffes, more tigers, importing orangutans from halfway across the world, leopards, importing rhinos, importing koalas (which are expensive in of themselves) - lots of key, popular species that are frequently made more expensive by the fact you want to import from their homelands.

I note also you're still interested in Malayan Tigers as well as targeting other rare species across the board, often those in demand - and equally wanting multiple pairs of Tigers and Siamangs, which is a lot of cost for a start up. Given your other recent thread about how zoos should breed every rare species possible, is this plan a proper zoo or an endangered species breeding pet project? Because the emphasis on numbers and rarities does not suggest to me that you're getting into this for education or conservation, particularly coupled with your other threads of late.

 

[Nikola Chavkoski]

Given your other recent thread about how zoos should breed every rare species possible, is this plan a proper zoo or an endangered species breeding pet project? Because the emphasis on numbers and rarities does not suggest to me that you're getting into this for education or conservation, particularly coupled with your other threads of late.

Thanks for the gibbons info.
I chose species, based on my personal preferences, the potential to attract visitors, availability, and to be threathened of extinction to some extent (most of them). It does not need to suggest to anything, but to a zoo holding wild animals (breeding or not). I think it is illegal to breed and sell these species for comercial purposes.

 

[Nikola Chavkoski]

Future headline: “Man mauled by tiger in home-built North Macedonia zoo.”

No, it won't happen. A palm reading expert, read on my palm that I will live to 95 years of age

 

[Nikola Chavkoski]

Rules for keeping big cats differ by country, here is what is currently legal minimums by law in Czechia for Amur tigers:

Thank you a lot Jana. Do you have some data too, for enclosure size requirements for siamangs or for gibbons in general?

 

[Nikola Chavkoski]

Additionally gibbons are highly territorial and if kept in close proximity to other pairs can cause issues in pair formation and inhibit parental care even to the point of parents killing their own infants. It's recommended to house pairs/family groups at least 75m apart with no visual contact, and you want to build four exhibits off the same building?

Then I can use the four enclosure complex (400m2) for up to two famillies of siamangs, or two non-breeding groups, using them as rotation enclosures, or at the very least, joining by two, and getting only two enclosures (10x20m). Or a bare minimum of one siamang familly or a small non-breading group.

 

[Jana]

Thank you a lot Jana. Do you have some data too, for enclosure size requirements for siamangs or for gibbons in general?

This is legal requirement for gibbons in Czechia, but this is very outdated version (valid since 2006) and will be probably soon updated:

- outside enclosure at least 3,5 m high, minimum 25 m2 for up to 4 animals, plus 8 m2 for any additional one
- inside heated enclosure at least 3,5 m high, minimum 25 m2 for up to 4 animals, plus 8 m2 per additional one
- heated inside enclosure at least 10 Celsius, at least 15 Celsius for siamangs
- siamangs should not be let go outside when it´s sub zero temperatures
- enclosure must have equipment for brachiation, sitting spots at various hights, visual barriers or other structures for animals to get out of the way of others, possibility of separation
- feeding at least twice daily
- enrichment and toys
- kept in pairs or families, solitary only for shortest possible time
- water moats if used must be secured against drowning

 

[Mr Gharial]

Now, I'm no expert here. I don't exactly have any zoo-building experience. Heck, I barely have enough life experience to call myself an adult. But I have been in a similar place where I start a project and immediately want to start big.

I know you said you want tigers and siamangs as a bare minimum for a starting point. But I suggest seeing these animals as a stage two.

Now I'm going to say this in a rude manner: You could build Europe's crappiest Siamang enclosure. Which would be fine by North Macedonia standards, but seen as something very bad by zoo-goers from the Northwest. Or, with the same space, you could build a good-quality tamarin enclosure.
You could build a bad quality tiger enclosure, which people will take pictures of and use in anti-zoo propaganda, or you could build an Asian wildcat enclosure that is up to the same standards as Europe's best zoos.

Red-necked wallabies and Hyacinth macaws are good plans, especially if you give them some more space than what you're currently planning. Something I would suggest is to build enclosures that are above the standards for these "starter phase" animals. So you can later transform these into "end phase" enclosures without too much hassle.

For example: if you build a large, high quality aviary now and use it for Macaws, you can still use this for animals like storks, flamingos or hornbills later down the line. Same goes for the Macropod enclosure. Build a big one now, and you won't have to make a new one for Grey kangaroos later.

On top of this, I would also start with an area where you can fit in animals that don't need all that much space. A reptile house or small aquarium will expand the zoo experience for the average visitor without much need for space. A crowd puller like a caiman, even a dwarf caiman, will pull in repeat visitors; again, without needing an extreme amount of space.

I know it sounds like I'm raining on your parade, but I really would love to see this happen. But if you make a bad start it might be difficult to recover. A quick glance through the gallery of North Macedonia's current zoos tells me that they aren't of extremely high quality. So if you start off with, let's say, German quality in your starter zoo, you could pull up the North Macedonian average zoo quality on your own.

I see some other people have already given you good tips on how to hold the animals you want. And I'm not saying you can't hold those animals. I'm only saying that starting small isn't a bad thing. And if you start with quality over quantity, you could take it slow and be a ZC-favourite one day...

 

[BenFoxster]

Now, I'm no expert here. I don't exactly have any zoo-building experience. Heck, I barely have enough life experience to call myself an adult. But I have been in a similar place where I start a project and immediately want to start big.

I know you said you want tigers and siamangs as a bare minimum for a starting point. But I suggest seeing these animals as a stage two.

Now I'm going to say this in a rude manner: You could build Europe's crappiest Siamang enclosure. Which would be fine by North Macedonia standards, but seen as something very bad by zoo-goers from the Northwest. Or, with the same space, you could build a good-quality tamarin enclosure.
You could build a bad quality tiger enclosure, which people will take pictures of and use in anti-zoo propaganda, or you could build an Asian wildcat enclosure that is up to the same standards as Europe's best zoos.

Red-necked wallabies and Hyacinth macaws are good plans, especially if you give them some more space than what you're currently planning. Something I would suggest is to build enclosures that are above the standards for these "starter phase" animals. So you can later transform these into "end phase" enclosures without too much hassle.

For example: if you build a large, high quality aviary now and use it for Macaws, you can still use this for animals like storks, flamingos or hornbills later down the line. Same goes for the Macropod enclosure. Build a big one now, and you won't have to make a new one for Grey kangaroos later.

On top of this, I would also start with an area where you can fit in animals that don't need all that much space. A reptile house or small aquarium will expand the zoo experience for the average visitor without much need for space. A crowd puller like a caiman, even a dwarf caiman, will pull in repeat visitors; again, without needing an extreme amount of space.

I know it sounds like I'm raining on your parade, but I really would love to see this happen. But if you make a bad start it might be difficult to recover. A quick glance through the gallery of North Macedonia's current zoos tells me that they aren't of extremely high quality. So if you start off with, let's say, German quality in your starter zoo, you could pull up the North Macedonian average zoo quality on your own.

I see some other people have already given you good tips on how to hold the animals you want. And I'm not saying you can't hold those animals. I'm only saying that starting small isn't a bad thing. And if you start with quality over quantity, you could take it slow and be a ZC-favourite one day...

This is actually REALLY good advice Gharial! That is a very great idea to choose smaller/less popular animals, but make the most astounding exhibits possible! Starting with a small tamarin or marmoset enclosure, and an Asian wild cat would be great ideas. The other animals mentioned like the caiman, macaws, and wallabies should still be nice crowd pleasers, especially if given really nice immersive zoo exhibits. If OP doesn't like the idea of the tamarin or asian cat, would it be possible for them to go just a bit further with say capuchins or squirrel monkeys rather than tamarins, and perhaps serval over the asian cat (whose exhibit can eventually be expanded upon to hold tigers)? Dare I go so far as to say Howler monkeys as a viable monkey replacement? Give them a large enclosure with big trees, maybe imitate the howler monkey enclosure from the LA Zoo. Their loud sounds would make for a nice draw of crowds, similar to the unique sounds of gibbons or siamangs.

 

[Mr Gharial]

This is actually REALLY good advice Gharial! That is a very great idea to choose smaller/less popular animals, but make the most astounding exhibits possible! Starting with a small tamarin or marmoset enclosure, and an Asian wild cat would be great ideas. The other animals mentioned like the caiman, macaws, and wallabies should still be nice crowd pleasers, especially if given really nice immersive zoo exhibits. If OP doesn't like the idea of the tamarin or asian cat, would it be possible for them to go just a bit further with say capuchins or squirrel monkeys rather than tamarins, and perhaps serval over the asian cat (whose exhibit can eventually be expanded upon to hold tigers)? Dare I go so far as to say Howler monkeys as a viable monkey replacement? Give them a large enclosure with big trees, maybe imitate the howler monkey enclosure from the LA Zoo. Their loud sounds would make for a nice draw of crowds, similar to the unique sounds of gibbons or siamangs.

I chose my examples because Nikola mentioned he wanted to take care of some endangered animals as well, and bring attention to them. Pied, Cotton-top or Golden lion tamarins would all be cute primates (crowd pull), that are endangered (educational + conservation value) and don't need to much space (better chance of good exhibit).

In terms of cats I wouldn't go Serval, as these prefer open plains and would require more ground space. Felids like Wildcats or Ocelots need less horizontal and more vertical space, which is easier to create without needing too much space or expense.

Also: yes! Live trees! Definitely live trees! Planted enclosures instantly make a zoo go up in quality, even if it's just visitor placebo in some cases

 

[birdsandbats]

Also: yes! Live trees! Definitely live trees! Planted enclosures instantly make a zoo go up in quality, even if it's just visitor placebo in some cases

Native landscaping whenever possible.

 

[Mr Gharial]

Native landscaping whenever possible.

An important addition, yes. Modern zoos these days are trying to fix the mistaken of their past by replacing all the non-local flora with native plants. Plant native plants in the beginning stage and you won't have this problem in the future!

Adding to the local thought: bring attention to native animals! Maybe create a large outdoor enclosure for Hermann's tortoise, European pond turtle, Green lizard, and European legless lizard, for example. Taking inspiration from the amazing Mediterraneum from Tiergarten Nürnberg

 

[BenFoxster]

I chose my examples because Nikola mentioned he wanted to take care of some endangered animals as well, and bring attention to them. Pied, Cotton-top or Golden lion tamarins would all be cute primates (crowd pull), that are endangered (educational + conservation value) and don't need to much space (better chance of good exhibit).

In terms of cats I wouldn't go Serval, as these prefer open plains and would require more ground space. Felids like Wildcats or Ocelots need less horizontal and more vertical space, which is easier to create without needing too much space or expense.

Also: yes! Live trees! Definitely live trees! Planted enclosures instantly make a zoo go up in quality, even if it's just visitor placebo in some cases

For some reason I forgot about the endangered point, just figured he might like something a bit bigger for crowd appeal (definitely prefer the idea of endangered/conservation > crowd appeal though!). Love those choices too, I LOVE Golden lion tamarins, they're the cutest monkeys ever. That would be a great crowd pleaser; I can say from experience that I've gone back to zoos just to see them! If possible, the ocelot would be a really great idea for OP. I've noticed that getting a lot more attraction on the internet in recent years, lots of women and children in particular have grown interest in them, probably because of their uniqueness over typical tigers and lions, gorgeous patterns, and smaller stature give them almost a cute housecat vibe, I could see an ocelot becoming a major crowd attractor for any small zoo, much better than seeing a bigger cat like a tiger in a too-small enclosure. Plus, the macaws, tamarins, caiman, and ocelot could have their exhibits near one another to create a tropical South American theme. OP can then leave a large portion of the land empty till he makes enough money to convert it to Asian and African-themed areas later as the zoo grows.

 

[Mr Gharial]

Plus, the macaws, tamarins, caiman, and ocelot could have their exhibits near one another to create a tropical South American theme. OP can then leave a large portion of the land empty till he makes enough money to convert it to Asian and African-themed areas later as the zoo grows.

Though I do love (and I mean LOVE) Continental separation within zoo layout, I would suggest leaving it to the side during early development. Within exhibits it would be better to keep it region-specific, of course. But focusing too hard on layout might be a privilege reserved for a final plan, rather than a startup plan

 

[pichu]

This is actually REALLY good advice Gharial! That is a very great idea to choose smaller/less popular animals, but make the most astounding exhibits possible! Starting with a small tamarin or marmoset enclosure, and an Asian wild cat would be great ideas. The other animals mentioned like the caiman, macaws, and wallabies should still be nice crowd pleasers, especially if given really nice immersive zoo exhibits. If OP doesn't like the idea of the tamarin or asian cat, would it be possible for them to go just a bit further with say capuchins or squirrel monkeys rather than tamarins, and perhaps serval over the asian cat (whose exhibit can eventually be expanded upon to hold tigers)? Dare I go so far as to say Howler monkeys as a viable monkey replacement? Give them a large enclosure with big trees, maybe imitate the howler monkey enclosure from the LA Zoo. Their loud sounds would make for a nice draw of crowds, similar to the unique sounds of gibbons or siamangs.

i know capuchins are extremely common and easy to get as well iirc, though one may want to consider the moral descision in that part.