ZSL London Zoo My recent visit

[taun]

Not necessarily - I think I'm right in saying that Effie has a history of not rearing her own infants and you can never be sure what's going to happen with a first birth, if Mjukuu is pregnant. I would be surprised if Bobby turns out to have been fertile, but ZSL must know by now.
On the other hand, I doubt if you could fool a male in the way you describe as he would be unlikely to mate with a pregnant female and so he would 'know' that the infant was not his.

Alan

I was speaking from the point of view that they reared their offspring and even if the didn't the females may come back into season early, thus hopefully having a second birth quickly after the second.

Am sure there are some gorilla's out there just as dumb as some humans, so I would think its a possibility

 

[Pertinax]

it did mention in the annual report that Bobby mated Mjukuu quite frequently, so it's not out of the question that hecould've mated Effie as well in the time they spent together.

I believe Bobby did mate with 'Effie' as well as 'Mjukuu' possibly starting when Mjukuu arrived. Photos I have seen of 'Effie' since Bobby's death show her to be much plumper than before(she was very slim on arrival from Berlin) but I suspect this is may be because she is unstressed, eating well and so has gained some signifcant natural weight. Or is she in fact, pregnant? Mjukuu on the otherhand looks no different to me.

If either female were pregnant I should have thought the news would somehow have found its way onto this Forum. Also with each passing month it seems(sadly) less likely though still possible until nine months have elapsed since Bobby's death.

Also, if a pregnancy was the reason for the male replacement being delayed, I think by now ZSL might have felt the need maybe(?) for some sort of statement about it. The only one I have seen is on the signboards- that they are 'seeking a new male.'

'Effie' has had two previous babies but so far not been able to rear one, though she has tried apparently. Mjukuu comes from the good social group at Chessington where she had several younger siblings to practise her mothering skills on, so I'd say there was a 95% liklehood she would be a very good first time mother.

 

[devilfish]

THIS IS NOT FACT JUST MY OPINION!

Could the reason be that London is slow in bringing in a new male be that one or more of the females could be pregnant?

I visited on Thursday and asked about the gorilla situation. I don't think that they're seriously considering pregnancy as an option. I was told that they are currently looking for a male, but they want him to be perfect. They're looking for one who's of the right age, temperament and genetically distant to the current females. Apparently, this doesn't fit anyone around at the moment, though they are looking carefully and are working with studbook keepers.

I was also told that they want to try mixing the colobus in soon, and are just waiting for their babies to mature before trying.

 

[devilfish]

What animals are in the Zoo World building at the moment, just out of interest.

The galago and coatis have now been removed, leaving two empty enclosures.

 

[devilfish]

Some observations from my visit on Thursday:

• All saw-scaled vipers in the reptile house have been transferred to the University of Wales
• The Gaboon viper (previously in with the green mambas) is now in the darkened saw-scaled viper exhibit. It struck the glass while I was standing there. Scared me half to death. Apparently he does this a lot though.
• There is now a young green anaconda in the reptile house
• The pair of southern tamanduas have been taken off display (though I never saw them anyway) and replaced with at least a pair of Red-ruffed lemurs, which can be viewed from inside the Clore, or from the Happy Families area.
• The pygmy hippos are still in their winter quarters, despite it nearing the end of June.
• A barn owl and striated caracara have been added to the predatory birds display; the barn owl only flew around briefly because apparently the last time she was let out (three weeks ago), she spent ten days on the loose in Regent's Park.
• The pair of Red-tailed Black Cockatoos have been moved into the large parrot aviary, shared with Hyacinth and Military Macaws.
• The breeding slender loris pair have just given birth. Their section of the nightzone was chained off to avoid disturbance.
• The White-spotted Jellyfish which they had made a huge fuss about are now gone. The tank is now empty, but I assume they're planning on displaying the moon jellies which they have been looking after for some time.
• The tigers were the most active I had ever seen. They had someone working on the sewage system, so the noise from the machines coupled with the smell really got them interested.
• I saw a big clump of fluff in the African Harrier Hawk nest. Chicks maybe?

 

[CZJimmy]

[*]The pygmy hippos are still in their winter quarters, despite it nearing the end of June.

Perhaps this is because of the tortoise construction next door to their summer paddock?

 

[devilfish]

Perhaps this is because of the tortoise construction next door to their summer paddock?

Fair point, though the anoa are still out and noise levels seem to have settled. Perhaps keeper access to their summer indoor quarters is the issue?

 

[Pertinax]

I asked about the gorilla situation. I was told that they are currently looking for a male, but they want him to be perfect. Apparently, this doesn't fit anyone around at the moment, though they are looking carefully and are working with studbook keepers.

There is some truth in that but I wonder how long they are prepared to wait as the situation isn't going to change very much- most of the ones available now will be the same ones around next year (unless there's a planned move of a male out of a breeding group somewhere) I also hope by 'right age' they mean a full adult rather than a younger male.

The most suitable male(in Europe) in my opinion would be 'Mayaabu' at Loro Parc, he is 21 years old and mother-reared, but even he is from the well represented Stuttgart line. There is a problem with finding genetically under-represented males now, unless they go to America?

 

[Pertinax]

[*]The pair of Red-tailed Black Cockatoos have been moved into the large parrot aviary, shared with Hyacinth and Military Macaws.

Last time I went the Hyacinthine Macaw pair were completely plucked on their bodies and presented a sad sight. Not sure why as the Aviary is very spacious.

 

[devilfish]

There is a problem with finding genetically under-represented males now, unless they go to America?

I've actually overheard a number of visitors suggest that - apparently there are three bachelors in St Louis? I'd assume that London Zoo are trying to find a male from an under-represented line, so I think that looking for a transatlantic male is not unlikely and is probably what will happen eventually; it would explain the delay, at least.

 

[devilfish]

Last time I went the Hyacinthine Macaw pair were completely plucked on their bodies and presented a sad sight. Not sure why as the Aviary is very spacious.

They had one of their 'apologetic signs' up a while ago explaining that they were lacking in feathers due to dietary problems which were being addressed at the time. There weren't any featherless hyacinths on display when I went on Thursday; even the pair in the mixed-species aviary looked healthier.

 

[Pertinax]

so I think that looking for a transatlantic male is not unlikely and is probably what will happen eventually; it would explain the delay, at least.

Historically very few Gorillas have ever made the journey from the USA to Europe (I can only think of 3) though a few more have gone the other way. If London are looking for new genetic input that is really what they need to do and would be a big step in the right direction.

There are plenty of bachelor males scattered around US zoos too, but with the same varying mix of social abilities as we have in the European population.

 

[Pertinax]

They had one of their 'apologetic signs' up a while ago explaining that they were lacking in feathers due to dietary problems which were being addressed at the time.

Strange situation with a comparatively easy- to- maintain species like Hyacinth macaw- I've seen plenty in other zoos but never any with feather loss anywhere else. Good to hear they have overcome it though.

 

[taun]

Historically very few Gorillas have ever made the journey from the USA to Europe (I can only think of 3) though a few more have gone the other way. If London are looking for new genetic input that is really what they need to do and would be a big step in the right direction.

There are plenty of bachelor males scattered around US zoos too, but with the same varying mix of social abilities as we have in the European population.

What ever they do, they need to do it quickly to settle this group down (meaning more stable and natural grouping) and start breeding.

 

[Pertinax]

What ever they do, they need to do it quickly to settle this group down (meaning more stable and natural grouping) and start breeding.

I think in this case perhaps its preferable that they do find the 'right' male rather than one which is more easy(quicker) to obtain but turns out to be less suitable in the long run. So for that reason I can tolerate what might be a longer delay..

The most desirable characteristics;

Mother raised so he is socially competent.
Low Genetic representation and no relatedness to females.
14+ in age.
Dominant but not aggressive temperament.
'Big and impressive'(just kidding but lets not have another Bobby... )

 

[MARK]

it does seem to taking a while

 

[Pertinax]

it does seem to taking a while

I am rather surprised too. Last time if I remember rightly, when they lost Jomie and he was replaced by Jock(now Bristol's male) from France I'm sure it didn't take very long at all. But when Apenheul did it a few years ago, I think there was indeed a similar long delay while they did their searching.

 

[MARK]

I wonder if London zoo will ever have a home grown Gorilla troup

 

[Kifaru Bwana]

I wonder if London zoo will ever have a home grown Gorilla troup

Mark and Pertinax,

Do not despair! I am sure this time round London Zoo will take apt advice and not rely on a quick fix solution. I find their attitude fair and clear in goal. Perhaps, - as quite a few European bachelor candidates in the preferred age classes are related - a cross-ocean transfer is more likely (SSP-wise that is).

K.B.

 

[Pertinax]

I wonder if London zoo will ever have a home grown Gorilla troup

They had the chance when they bred them in the 1980's, then blew it by transferring the two young females to Belfast (one later died, the other bred just once)

I think this time around they have the potential, all they need is a decent and fertile breeding male. of the 3 females; Zaire may or may not bred again, Effie is proven( x2 in Berlin) but hasn't reared a baby, Mjuku (the yuongest and newest from Chessington) is a 'sure fire' bet to rear her own young (I used to see her carrying her younger siblings about at Chessington) So I'm sure it will happen....