Chester Zoo Natural Vision Plans

[gentle lemur]

I think it's a little too early for anyone to know anything definite about the developments planned by Chester and Bristol.
In both cases the economic climate has got much worse since they were first published - but both have made strong cases for Regional Development Agency funding because of job creation by increasing numbers of visitors to their respective regions. The Conservatives proposed to abolish RDAs, but the coalition government may decide differently and I would be very surprised if regional development funding was ended completely. On the other hand, I would be equally surprised if the amount of money available was not cut considerably.
My guess is that it will take time for the government to make these decisions, so the very best we can hope for are delays. Perhaps an economic recovery in a few years time will allow the current plans to go ahead, perhaps the societies will need to revise their plans.

Alan

 

[SMR]

...in a scientific document (which I would say includes, for example, a zoo stocklist) I think capitalisation is appropriate to show the names refers to a clear taxonimic entity.

Probably the most recognised, peer-reviewed zoological scientific journals in the UK are those published by the ZSL; the Journal of Zoology, Animal Conservation and the International Zoo Yearbook (all available on-line from wiley.com). They follow the convention I outlined above, as do the journals and papers from the British Society of Animal Science.

I did it all through my university career and never got picked up on it (even at Masters level).

Darn those pesky $100 Internet degrees.

 

[Javan Rhino]

Something I heard on the radio this morning (which was a coincidence since it was on the way to the zoo) is that the government is making massive cuts it the tourism budget (I didn't hear the whole thing so could be a little out of proportion), but it said that Chester Zoo's Natural Vision project is 'just one of the things that will be affected.'

Now, a couple of things strike me as odd about this:
1) Chester always mentions that 'it is a charity and recieves NO government funding.' If they get money through donations, entrances etc then why would the government slashing the budget affect this?
2) Chester have already invested hundreds of thousands of pounds (if not millions) simply drawing up and submitting plans. Surely that would be the biggest waste of money ever if Chester scrap the project now?

Does anybody have any more information on this subject as this recent development has left me intrigued (if not even a little worried that we shall not see any parts of the project).

 

[lechweoryx]

I don't think they will scrap the project. It'll probably just be delayed.

 

[Javan Rhino]

I don't think they will scrap the project. It'll probably just be delayed.

Ahh cool, still not good news but fingers crossed it still goes ahead . I am still confused how cuts would affect it though if they have nothing to do with government funding :S

 

[zoogiraffe]

Something I heard on the radio this morning (which was a coincidence since it was on the way to the zoo) is that the government is making massive cuts it the tourism budget (I didn't hear the whole thing so could be a little out of proportion), but it said that Chester Zoo's Natural Vision project is 'just one of the things that will be affected.'

Now, a couple of things strike me as odd about this:
1) Chester always mentions that 'it is a charity and recieves NO government funding.' If they get money through donations, entrances etc then why would the government slashing the budget affect this?
2) Chester have already invested hundreds of thousands of pounds (if not millions) simply drawing up and submitting plans. Surely that would be the biggest waste of money ever if Chester scrap the project now?

Does anybody have any more information on this subject as this recent development has left me intrigued (if not even a little worried that we shall not see any parts of the project).

Because part of the Funding was coming from the Regional Development Agency which is being wound up,by the government means now the zoo has to find all the money its self!

 

[Javan Rhino]

Because part of the Funding was coming from the Regional Development Agency which is being wound up,by the government means now the zoo has to find all the money its self!

Ahhh, that is not good news . I'm sure they will do it eventually (or maybe wait until the economic climate picks up a bit, but who knows when that's gonna be. Thanks for the info Zoogiraffe

 

[SMR]

There has been a lot of discussion about this recently. The changes to the regional development agencies will indeed impact many projects, including phase one of Natural Vision, which broadly speaking encompassed Heart of Africa, the hotel and entrance.

The zoo were hoping for North West Development Agency funding for at least a proportion of the project, but it's worth bearing in mind that had the NWDA remained in place, there was no guarantee that they would support the project (or to what amount), and if they did, it was likely that the European Commission would also have to approve their support. Therefore there are contingency plans, including focussing on different areas and/or the zoo funding the entire project themselves, but all are likely to have an impact on the time line. Let's not forget that the "super zoo" project has been bandied about for, oh, at least twenty years already.

As for the costs of the project so far, the input from the zoo has primarily been that of time and expertise, the NWDA has funded the majority of the feasibility studies and the creation of the HoA plans themselves. They awarded the zoo a grant of £3.8M for this purpose in March 2008. Surveys etc. benefit the zoo regardless, as does all the work on visitor tracking and demographics.

 

[Javan Rhino]

There has been a lot of discussion about this recently. The changes to the regional development agencies will indeed impact many projects, including phase one of Natural Vision, which broadly speaking encompassed Heart of Africa, the hotel and entrance.

The zoo were hoping for North West Development Agency funding for at least a proportion of the project, but it's worth bearing in mind that had the NWDA remained in place, there was no guarantee that they would support the project (or to what amount), and if they did, it was likely that the European Commission would also have to approve their support. Therefore there are contingency plans, including focussing on different areas and/or the zoo funding the entire project themselves, but all are likely to have an impact on the time line. Let's not forget that the "super zoo" project has been bandied about for, oh, at least twenty years already.

As for the costs of the project so far, the input from the zoo has primarily been that of time and expertise, the NWDA has funded the majority of the feasibility studies and the creation of the HoA plans themselves. They awarded the zoo a grant of £3.8M for this purpose in March 2008. Surveys etc. benefit the zoo regardless, as does all the work on visitor tracking and demographics.

Wow, the amount of work involved is immense. Gone are the days when I thought a zoo would build new exhibits when they had saved the money necessary. For example, I always used to think a zoo would sit down and say 'right, we have [x-amount] in savings, which will allow us to build a new [x-exhibit] in the zoo.

I certainly do hope it goes ahead at some point (I would love to see as much as possible happen, but I'm hoping that we can see the HoA biodome within the next 5-10 years at least. Feasible? I certianly hope so, but that is certainly the thing I am most looking forward to (and the savannah parts, but they are a later phase anyway?

 

[Pt123]

The order of the phases could be changed depending on funding. Nothing is set in stone at this stage, so don't be expecting certain parts of the plans to appear in 5-10 years as they could come much later and things you are expecting in the distant future could come much sooner. It's a case of wait and see.

 

[Javan Rhino]

The order of the phases could be changed depending on funding. Nothing is set in stone at this stage, so don't be expecting certain parts of the plans to appear in 5-10 years as they could come much later and things you are expecting in the distant future could come much sooner. It's a case of wait and see.

Ahhh cool. I'm not particularly expecting it, but that is the part I'm most looking forward to, so it is more hoping .

Other than what will be in the biodome (and possibly hippos at some point in the new 'savannah' area), does anybody know of any species that the zoo are looking at getting in the Natural Vision, or is the rest just hotels and colleges? All I've heard about are the aforementioned and the possible return of sea lions.

 

[Zooplantman]

Wow, the amount of work involved is immense. Gone are the days when I thought a zoo would build new exhibits when they had saved the money necessary. For example, I always used to think a zoo would sit down and say 'right, we have [x-amount] in savings, which will allow us to build a new [x-exhibit] in the zoo.

I wonder if there ever were such times, especially for major zoos

 

[Javan Rhino]

I wonder if there ever were such times, especially for major zoos

I dunno, probably not with all of the formalities that are needed. It would be good to live in such a simple time though.
Another pain in the backside is planning permission. IT IS CHESTER'S LAND! They paid for it, its theirs and they should be allowed to put whatever they want on it for that reason alone. Sod everybody else, the land doesn't belong to them so it is effectively none of their business (my opinion anyway, I dunno if others agree).

 

[Maguari]

Another pain in the backside is planning permission. IT IS CHESTER'S LAND! They paid for it, its theirs and they should be allowed to put whatever they want on it for that reason alone. Sod everybody else, the land doesn't belong to them so it is effectively none of their business (my opinion anyway, I dunno if others agree).

So if I bought a plot of land in the middle of the Norfolk Broads there should be nothing to stop me building a chemical works there? Or if I wanted to build a massive skyscraper in the middle of the Cotswolds? Or add an extra two floors to a suburban house so I can see into all my neighbours' gardens?

Planning laws are there for a reason, and I think are generally pretty fairly enforced.

 

[Javan Rhino]

So if I bought a plot of land in the middle of the Norfolk Broads there should be nothing to stop me building a chemical works there? Or if I wanted to build a massive skyscraper in the middle of the Cotswolds? Or add an extra two floors to a suburban house so I can see into all my neighbours' gardens?

Planning laws are there for a reason, and I think are generally pretty fairly enforced.

I suppose you have a point, but it would still be your land. Perhaps the laws do have their good points, but I can't see the negative side of this project? It doesn't invade anybody's privacy and it is safe (its not like its radioactive or anything). The only reason I can see for this is because of a minority in the nearby area who think it might ruin the looks of the area? Is this such a bad thing when you think of the jobs it will create and the conservation that it will be helping. In my opinion, the pros outweigh the cons.

 

[Maguari]

the pros outweigh the cons.

I agree with this, but the planning process is there to make sure. It's a vital part of the process. Owning land does not mean you have the right to disregard everyone else. In this case, besides the large building there were also concerns about traffic access - if this were to become a problem it would affect everyone locally*. Planning approval is a vital part of the process - it allows these concerns to be addressed before it's too late. If there's ever a development near you that you're unhappy with you'll be glad of it!




*I don't know if you've been to Alton Towers? I'm sure they'd never get approval for a large attraction in that location now - the access situation is awful and clogs up villages for miles around.

 

[Paix]

I think we should all stop wondering, sit and wait for an actual answer.

 

[SMR]

I wonder if there ever were such times, especially for major zoos

Indeed there were, especially at Chester where Mottershead would build as soon as funds allowed (although nothing on the scale of HoA, obviously) and often using materials that would happen to present themselves - most famously anti-tank roadblocks. Chester also has so much land because each penny in profit went towards another blade of grass in another adjacent field...

Seasonal visitor fluctuations still have a significant impact on developments; the number of visitors over a holiday period can make or break mid-sized developments even today.

 

[reduakari]

Indeed there were, especially at Chester where Mottershead would build as soon as funds allowed (although nothing on the scale of HoA, obviously) and often using materials that would happen to present themselves - most famously anti-tank roadblocks. Chester also has so much land because each penny in profit went towards another blade of grass in another adjacent field...

Seasonal visitor fluctuations still have a significant impact on developments; the number of visitors over a holiday period can make or break mid-sized developments even today.

The multi-purpose, capital-intensive nature of most modern zoo exhibits makes this approach a thing of the past. Those zoos that are able to scrape up a modest "profit" today are far more likely to invest in repairs, incremental staffing or stashing away the money into a "rainy day fund" than to undertake the development of significant new exhibits. Ape houses constructed from war rubble simply won't make the grade today....The number of US zoos that can boast of revenues a million dollars or more in excess of expenses can be counted on one hand--but there are scores of multi-million dollar exhibits always in development. Funding from wealthy donors, generous corporate sponsors and government is largely the only way big new building projects happen.

 

[SMR]

The number of US zoos that can boast of revenues a million dollars or more in excess of expenses can be counted on one hand--but there are scores of multi-million dollar exhibits always in development. Funding from wealthy donors, generous corporate sponsors and government is largely the only way big new building projects happen.

It's worth reminding some zoos that a good exhibit doesn't necessarily have to cost millions of dollars and require corporate sponsorship, and that excellent additions have been made to zoos in recent years that have cost relatively little, haven't required ten thousand-page planning applications and have been funded by zoos themselves.

And just to provide a point of reference for the Natural Vision discussion, Chester's net income for the year ending 31st December 2009 was £3.6M (~5.6M USD), with accumulated funds reaching £28.3M (~44M USD).