Longleat Safari & Adventure Park New Gorilla at Longleat?
- Thread starter Pertinax
- Start date
skoop102
Well-Known Member
Hi. If its the same photo that I have seen on Flickr dated 13th August I'm 99% sure it's definitly an old photo, as the person also has a photo of the tigers and the old male Sonar is in the photo, and he died last year.
(They only had the one gorilla when I visited in June, Nico the male.)
(They only had the one gorilla when I visited in June, Nico the male.)
Yes , it was. It did say 'taken on 13th August' but from what you say, it seems it wasn't. I was surprised they had acted so quickly in replacing 'Samba' . It would be good if Howletts could supply them a female or two and maybe get an offspring or two from Nico while he's still alive- he is vey old now, so silver-coloured he looks almost white sometimes. But of course its probably unlikely to happen?
Longleat Gorillas live on a small island in the Lake with a purpose build house for indoor living. 'Safari' boats take you out and circle the island to see them.
Ist trio arrived at Longleat sometime in the 1970's. They came from Gordon Mill's private collection at Weybridge. (He was the singer Tom Jones' manager and after visiting Aspinall's, he started keeping Gorillas and Tigers for a while.)
The two females were called Tessie and Flossie (and I think Mills got them originally from Copenhagen Zoo. They were pretty old already so were 'available'). The male 'Monty' was younger. At Longleat, the two females eventually died of age-related problems, while Monty, by then an impressive male, fell into the water of the lake and drowned.
They were replaced in 1986 by another middle-aged pair of w/c gorillas from Circus Knie in Switzeland. Nico and Samba were both born about 1961. They had never bred as they'd lived together continuously many years.
In the early 90's, during winter while Longleat was closed, they were both sent to Bristol Zoo to try and breed them with the proven animals there. Nico proved hopelessly aggressive and after a few months was returned to Longleat. Samba stayed for longer but was eventually returned to Longleat due to protests abut Nico being alone. This was unfortunate as she had started mating with a male at Bristol and could concievebly have become pregnant despite her age, if they'd given it longer...
Since then, they've continued living into old age at Longleat.
Samba died last winter, since when (as far as we know) Nico has been living alone. He's now about 46 years old, one of the oldest males in Europe and listed in the World's 'top fifty' oldest captive gorillas. He is extremely silver-coloured now- appears almost white in some photos.
I don't know if there are any plans for Nico who was wildcaught and with no offspring. Longleat have never bred a gorilla and have kept only the five animals in total.
My own preference would be either for Nico to be sent somewhere else now, in a last try to breed from him, or for a proven female or two to be loaned to Longleat e.g. from Howletts for the same purpose, though its risky because of the water.
So far they've had to obtain their gorillas privately. I'm not sure whether the EEP would okay the existing enclosure for new animals.... If they upgraded it and made it safer too, then perhaps it would be okay for a small all-male group- the most likely future scenario I think.
So far they've had to obtain their gorillas privately. I'm not sure whether the EEP would okay the existing enclosure for new animals.... If they upgraded it and made it safer too, then perhaps it would be okay for a small all-male group- the most likely future scenario I think.
I might be wrong, it could be six... There was another similar aged male 'Jeppe' who was also in Switzerland originally but I can't remember if he went to Longleat along with the other two. If he did, he didn't last very long....
Longleat's lonely silverback
Probably the best solution now is for the male Nico to live out the remainder of his captive live on the island. For the breeding programme he can be termed a total loss as he is socially inept and too aggressive with females. Perhaps the EEP will decide to electro-ejaculate him for gorilla gene banking to preserve his genetic line?
Once Nico has passed away I would hope Longleat Safari Park will no longer maintain gorillas and restyle the enclosure for African primate species - e.g. mandrill, colobus or patas monkey - that is more suitable to the African savannah theme of Longleat.
Probably the best solution now is for the male Nico to live out the remainder of his captive live on the island. For the breeding programme he can be termed a total loss as he is socially inept and too aggressive with females. Perhaps the EEP will decide to electro-ejaculate him for gorilla gene banking to preserve his genetic line?
Once Nico has passed away I would hope Longleat Safari Park will no longer maintain gorillas and restyle the enclosure for African primate species - e.g. mandrill, colobus or patas monkey - that is more suitable to the African savannah theme of Longleat.
1. Jeppe never went to Longleat, so it is only five Gorillas they have ever exhibited.
2. Re Nico's future.
I think given his age etc, knocking him down for electro-ejaculation could easily kill him- I'd prefer they didn't take that risk.
Although he proved aggressive with a strange female when he was sent to Bristol, it was a far from ideal situation. He was split from 'Samba' who was within earshot in the same building and he pined for her. Also in that house there were no facilities for gradual or visual introductions(touching, smell etc) so these weren't good conditions for mixing strange animals together.
Although its true he is almost certainly socially inept, he did live at Longleat with Samba for many years without(to my knowledge) any problems. I think in this case the LOAN of a single female as a companion for him might be the best option. The obvious choice would be an older, proven breeder from Howletts? I wouldn't normally advocate a 1.1. ratio for gorillas but Nico's case is a bit unusual. If he rejected the female, she could be sent home, but there's the chance that on his home turf in a relaxed situation, he might accept her.
I agree that when Nico dies, a different sort of exhibit would really be best for the Island- 'Mandrill Island' sounds a good idea!
2. Re Nico's future.
I think given his age etc, knocking him down for electro-ejaculation could easily kill him- I'd prefer they didn't take that risk.
Although he proved aggressive with a strange female when he was sent to Bristol, it was a far from ideal situation. He was split from 'Samba' who was within earshot in the same building and he pined for her. Also in that house there were no facilities for gradual or visual introductions(touching, smell etc) so these weren't good conditions for mixing strange animals together.
Although its true he is almost certainly socially inept, he did live at Longleat with Samba for many years without(to my knowledge) any problems. I think in this case the LOAN of a single female as a companion for him might be the best option. The obvious choice would be an older, proven breeder from Howletts? I wouldn't normally advocate a 1.1. ratio for gorillas but Nico's case is a bit unusual. If he rejected the female, she could be sent home, but there's the chance that on his home turf in a relaxed situation, he might accept her.
I agree that when Nico dies, a different sort of exhibit would really be best for the Island- 'Mandrill Island' sounds a good idea!
I did not know the social introduction in Bristol was far from ideal. Whether or not he would have behaved differently were Samba in the same exhibit as him we will never know, but it seems that the zoo keepers underestimated his sensitivity.
It does seem sad that Samba was not retained at Bristol with regular matings happening. Perhaps she might have become a breeder and her genes represented in the population as she was a wild caught founder.
On your suggestion: it might be worthwhile to check whether Lympne is willing to let 1 or 2 female gorillas out to Longleat for a short-term breeding loan (just to see whether the old male is still breedable).
It does seem sad that Samba was not retained at Bristol with regular matings happening. Perhaps she might have become a breeder and her genes represented in the population as she was a wild caught founder.
On your suggestion: it might be worthwhile to check whether Lympne is willing to let 1 or 2 female gorillas out to Longleat for a short-term breeding loan (just to see whether the old male is still breedable).
Yes, the attempted breeding of Nico and Samba with Bristol gorillas was really a non-starter. Pretty much everything was loaded against success. Its doubtful if Samba would have become pregnant but there was a chance ...
I know Longleat and Howletts are 'friends' as P.L. sent Longleat an old male 'Barbary' Lion a year or so ago. Longleat may not be comfortable about keeping Nico alone longterm. A single companion female on loan from Howletts, with the added slim chance of breeding, would seem the best solution in this case. I wonder if they have considered it.
I know Longleat and Howletts are 'friends' as P.L. sent Longleat an old male 'Barbary' Lion a year or so ago. Longleat may not be comfortable about keeping Nico alone longterm. A single companion female on loan from Howletts, with the added slim chance of breeding, would seem the best solution in this case. I wonder if they have considered it.
MARK
Well-Known Member
Barbary Lion at Longleat
I know Longleat and Howletts are 'friends' as P.L. sent Longleat an old male 'Barbary' Lion a year or so ago.
Yes that is true, the Barbary Lion which was sent to Longleat is in my Gallery pics, he was an old lion when he was sent there but even so he has since sired cubs at Longleat
I know Longleat and Howletts are 'friends' as P.L. sent Longleat an old male 'Barbary' Lion a year or so ago.
Yes that is true, the Barbary Lion which was sent to Longleat is in my Gallery pics, he was an old lion when he was sent there but even so he has since sired cubs at Longleat
No, Port Lympne still breed the so-called Barbary Lions. There is a Barbary Lion thread about this too.
The old male they sent to Longleat was 'Kabir', a past breeding male who they have replaced in recent years with a new breeding male 'Suliman' from Rabat, Morocco. I presume they no longer had space for 'Kabir' and so his move to Longleat and yes, he has fathered cubs there, to a homebred 'ordinary' lioness.
The old male they sent to Longleat was 'Kabir', a past breeding male who they have replaced in recent years with a new breeding male 'Suliman' from Rabat, Morocco. I presume they no longer had space for 'Kabir' and so his move to Longleat and yes, he has fathered cubs there, to a homebred 'ordinary' lioness.
The breeding female lion at Port Lympne is a daughter of 'Kabir' and she has had several litters now.
I don't think Longleat treat him as anything other than a 'lion' as far as genetics go. And yes, Longleat's website has precious little animal news.
last hope for Nico?
Returning to the original subject of this thread...
I believe Longleat should act responsibly and at least provide Nico with a partner if they can. It would also be the last chance to try and perpetuate his genes in the captive population.
The number of older wildcaught gorillas in Europe dwindles a bit more each year. With them go the last chances to add the genes of any unrepresented animals into the population. Several males(in particular) which previously have been regarded as 'asocial' or 'impossible to breed from' have been allowed to die, sometimes without being given a realistic chance to breed. Nico falls pretty much into this category. I think the chance of success for him is slim but still worth the effort perhaps?
Returning to the original subject of this thread...
I believe Longleat should act responsibly and at least provide Nico with a partner if they can. It would also be the last chance to try and perpetuate his genes in the captive population.
The number of older wildcaught gorillas in Europe dwindles a bit more each year. With them go the last chances to add the genes of any unrepresented animals into the population. Several males(in particular) which previously have been regarded as 'asocial' or 'impossible to breed from' have been allowed to die, sometimes without being given a realistic chance to breed. Nico falls pretty much into this category. I think the chance of success for him is slim but still worth the effort perhaps?
MARK
Well-Known Member
I don't think Longleat treat him as anything other than a 'lion' as far as genetics go. And yes, Longleat's website has precious little animal news.[/QUOTE]
Grant, looks like Longleats just updated there website, WOW, "at last" the new Trio of Siberian tigers from France look nice
Grant, looks like Longleats just updated there website, WOW, "at last" the new Trio of Siberian tigers from France look nice