Yassa;542385 Dreamworld is more circus then zoo said:
Dreamworld New tiger cubs
- Thread starter jay
- Start date
They are breeding hybrids even though every place in captivity for a tiger is desperately needed for purebred animals from a recognzised breeding program, don`t they??
They are intentionally pulling cubs from their mother for unnecessary handraising, don`t they??
They still allow their keepers to work in direct contact with adult big cats, don`t they?? And when an "accident" happens, it is a tragic, unforeseeable, unavoidable tradgedy, right??
They have the NERVE to promote all the above as "conversation" and "education", don`t they??
They are intentionally pulling cubs from their mother for unnecessary handraising, don`t they??
They still allow their keepers to work in direct contact with adult big cats, don`t they?? And when an "accident" happens, it is a tragic, unforeseeable, unavoidable tradgedy, right??
They have the NERVE to promote all the above as "conversation" and "education", don`t they??
Conservation
Yassa, Dreamworld is a very large contributor to in-situ conservation as well as ex-situ as they have the program Sumatrans. I do not see this as being anywhere close to "immoral".
In fact they are assisting in work that few other zoos even participate in. Do you know anything about hand rearing of tigers? Why do you have a problem with it?
Yassa, Dreamworld is a very large contributor to in-situ conservation as well as ex-situ as they have the program Sumatrans. I do not see this as being anywhere close to "immoral".
In fact they are assisting in work that few other zoos even participate in. Do you know anything about hand rearing of tigers? Why do you have a problem with it?
Well, it`s good to hear that Dreamworld is at least doing something right when also doing so much wrong.
Why I am totally opposed to handrearing? Because rearing the offspring is the best and most important enrichment that exists in a captive environment. My understanding is that the goal of a modern zoo is to give its animal what they need to show natural behavoir, for example enclosures that are adapted to the special needs of the specific animal, a proper social situation and behavoir enrichment so that the animal doesn`t get too bored. Breeding and raising young gives a female tiger the best and most natural social situation and keeps them busy, and not just for a few weeks or months, but up to 1,5-2 years. Actually, it can also give the male tiger enrichment and a great social situation since many male tigers are great fathers and can stay with the family (just a few recent examples that this works great to the benefit of all animals are the tiger families at Tierpark Berlin, Zoo Cologne and Zoo Leipzig).
A lot of people consider raising young as such a crucial part of a female mammal`s life that they feel it is cruel to use contraception "just" because there is no space for the young once they are mature. Some of these people seriously advocate or even practice euthanizing of those young. I am not saying they are right, but I totally agree that it is very important for the wellbeing of a female mammal to raise young and that it is the best enrichment.
If you pull tiger cubs for handraising, all the above is lost for the parents - for no good reason. But hey, the tigers will get a lot of stimulation through training, right?! (this is meant sarcastic, obviously).
Handraising in general also brings a lot of problems for the young since they miss the chance to learn the full range of social behavoir from their mother, and often show behavoir problems and a much too big attraction and attention to humans even late in life. Many handraised animals become aggressive against animals of their own species and lack sucess in mating and raising their own young. This seems to be not such a big problems in tigers, but it is a huge problem in monkeys and apes.
There is not a single one EAZA accreddited zoo in Europe that pulls big cats for handraising unless the mother has proven to be incompetent. This practice is considered outdated and bad practice everywhere in Europe. I was shocked when I learned through Zoochat that mayor Australian Zoos are still doing something that has been banned from all scientifically based European zoos at least 20 years ago!!
Why I am totally opposed to handrearing? Because rearing the offspring is the best and most important enrichment that exists in a captive environment. My understanding is that the goal of a modern zoo is to give its animal what they need to show natural behavoir, for example enclosures that are adapted to the special needs of the specific animal, a proper social situation and behavoir enrichment so that the animal doesn`t get too bored. Breeding and raising young gives a female tiger the best and most natural social situation and keeps them busy, and not just for a few weeks or months, but up to 1,5-2 years. Actually, it can also give the male tiger enrichment and a great social situation since many male tigers are great fathers and can stay with the family (just a few recent examples that this works great to the benefit of all animals are the tiger families at Tierpark Berlin, Zoo Cologne and Zoo Leipzig).
A lot of people consider raising young as such a crucial part of a female mammal`s life that they feel it is cruel to use contraception "just" because there is no space for the young once they are mature. Some of these people seriously advocate or even practice euthanizing of those young. I am not saying they are right, but I totally agree that it is very important for the wellbeing of a female mammal to raise young and that it is the best enrichment.
If you pull tiger cubs for handraising, all the above is lost for the parents - for no good reason. But hey, the tigers will get a lot of stimulation through training, right?! (this is meant sarcastic, obviously).
Handraising in general also brings a lot of problems for the young since they miss the chance to learn the full range of social behavoir from their mother, and often show behavoir problems and a much too big attraction and attention to humans even late in life. Many handraised animals become aggressive against animals of their own species and lack sucess in mating and raising their own young. This seems to be not such a big problems in tigers, but it is a huge problem in monkeys and apes.
There is not a single one EAZA accreddited zoo in Europe that pulls big cats for handraising unless the mother has proven to be incompetent. This practice is considered outdated and bad practice everywhere in Europe. I was shocked when I learned through Zoochat that mayor Australian Zoos are still doing something that has been banned from all scientifically based European zoos at least 20 years ago!!
Well two of the Sumatrans have left, and they have another 'Bengal' Pi that is not listed.
Hand rearing
@ Yassa, the great debate continues.... I certainly do not see it the same way. Here is a list of my opinions about the advantages of hand reared tigers that I am certain you will probably not agree with... but here goes.
1. Mother tigers generally do an excellent job of rearing cubs but mortality is greater than with hand reared tigers. I have had the chance to be with over 125 cubs at or near birth and have had two deaths (before one year of age). It seems that most zoological institution that have strictly mother reared animals have close to thirty percent dying at an early age.
2. Cubs that are hand reared are better adjusted as they are more confident in varied situations. They area less stressed and fearful in situations than non-hand reared animals would be. In all of the cases of tigers I have been with we have never had a case of a female tiger rejecting or killing cubs.
3. Cubs and mothers' make a great exhibit. Typically after a vaccination period cubs would be back on display with adult tigers in groups that may also include their mother. This is an excellent and popular way to display them.
4. It is certainly costlier to hand rear tigers which is a large commitment for most zoos. This is well off-set in terms of increased visitation, increased staff motivation, increased revenue opportunities, and better quality to cubs lives.
5. Long term benefits to tigers are substantial. These include lower stress by external factors, and ability to display tigers in larger groups and keep aggression to a lower level.
6. Much greater ability to generate in-situ funds. Dreamworld and Australia Zoo are the largest zoological donors to conservation. This is only possible due to programs with the animals and public donations that are encouraged by seeing something different than a static exhibit with tigers.
7. Hand reared animals can be more easily conditioned to allow close inspections, routine weight being taken, blood samples to be taken, and general treatments.
8. Breeding of hand reared animals is also easier and safer as they can be more closely monitored and over aggression prevented.
It is always interesting to hear both sides of the argument. I have worked around and with cats that are hand reared and handled and cats that are not. My opinion is that while much harder to manage a quality program like Dreamworld or Australia Zoo has benefits for the individual animals, conservation, and the public that comes to the facilities.
@ Yassa, the great debate continues.... I certainly do not see it the same way. Here is a list of my opinions about the advantages of hand reared tigers that I am certain you will probably not agree with... but here goes.
1. Mother tigers generally do an excellent job of rearing cubs but mortality is greater than with hand reared tigers. I have had the chance to be with over 125 cubs at or near birth and have had two deaths (before one year of age). It seems that most zoological institution that have strictly mother reared animals have close to thirty percent dying at an early age.
2. Cubs that are hand reared are better adjusted as they are more confident in varied situations. They area less stressed and fearful in situations than non-hand reared animals would be. In all of the cases of tigers I have been with we have never had a case of a female tiger rejecting or killing cubs.
3. Cubs and mothers' make a great exhibit. Typically after a vaccination period cubs would be back on display with adult tigers in groups that may also include their mother. This is an excellent and popular way to display them.
4. It is certainly costlier to hand rear tigers which is a large commitment for most zoos. This is well off-set in terms of increased visitation, increased staff motivation, increased revenue opportunities, and better quality to cubs lives.
5. Long term benefits to tigers are substantial. These include lower stress by external factors, and ability to display tigers in larger groups and keep aggression to a lower level.
6. Much greater ability to generate in-situ funds. Dreamworld and Australia Zoo are the largest zoological donors to conservation. This is only possible due to programs with the animals and public donations that are encouraged by seeing something different than a static exhibit with tigers.
7. Hand reared animals can be more easily conditioned to allow close inspections, routine weight being taken, blood samples to be taken, and general treatments.
8. Breeding of hand reared animals is also easier and safer as they can be more closely monitored and over aggression prevented.
It is always interesting to hear both sides of the argument. I have worked around and with cats that are hand reared and handled and cats that are not. My opinion is that while much harder to manage a quality program like Dreamworld or Australia Zoo has benefits for the individual animals, conservation, and the public that comes to the facilities.
nanoboy
Well-Known Member
Looks like they are offering an encounter with the cubs: Tiger Cubs Dreamworld - Dreamworld Theme Parks - Gold Coast - Australia
Who else is thinking of doing it?
Who else is thinking of doing it?
nanoboy
Well-Known Member
Got a friend going up there next week.would if i had the time.
That's a lucky friend.
I am checking the finances to see if we can afford a weekend up there before the window closes.
Does anyone know the sexes of the cubs?
don't worry, i found out that they're males
I think Yassa has a very good point.
Is it really essential to have tiger cubs available for the public to play with?
Yes I have read all your posts, but that does not mean I have to agree with them.
I was puzzled as to why all other Zoos dont adopt this approach if it is the best?
Do you not accept the following?
"There is not a single one EAZA accreddited zoo in Europe that pulls big cats for handraising unless the mother has proven to be incompetent. This practice is considered outdated and bad practice everywhere in Europe".
I,personally find it distasteful that Dreamworld offer $99 cuddle the cub vouchers.
I was puzzled as to why all other Zoos dont adopt this approach if it is the best?
Do you not accept the following?
"There is not a single one EAZA accreddited zoo in Europe that pulls big cats for handraising unless the mother has proven to be incompetent. This practice is considered outdated and bad practice everywhere in Europe".
I,personally find it distasteful that Dreamworld offer $99 cuddle the cub vouchers.
Tiger hand rearing
@Chip, I certainly do not think a bunch of institutions should be conducting these activities. They are expensive to manage and require dedicated staff to conduct these programs. I cannot help if EAZA institutions are behind.
These activities raise considerable funds for in situ work. I cannot find bigger donors to conservation, in zoos, than Dreamworld and Australia Zoo. Certainly you must see a value in that.
@Chip, I certainly do not think a bunch of institutions should be conducting these activities. They are expensive to manage and require dedicated staff to conduct these programs. I cannot help if EAZA institutions are behind.
These activities raise considerable funds for in situ work. I cannot find bigger donors to conservation, in zoos, than Dreamworld and Australia Zoo. Certainly you must see a value in that.
why didn't they just call them "noble" and "sun"?