Rare Species Conservation Centre News 2015

I can`t see that anyone is creating drama or posting "damaging" content. People are asking questions, and these are questions that I am asking myself as well.

Where do all these animals that are imported come from? Wild-caught for import?! Captive bred in range countries? Confiscated? How many founders are imported and how many zoos are interested in holding them? I can`t see that these questions are answered anywhere and they are important for me. I am all for establishing breeding programs for less-known and endangered animals, but I am very much against going back to the times when zoos "consumed" massive numbers of rare, wild-caught animals just to have them in their collection without coordinated efforts of building up a sustainable population. Importing just a single pair of animals that are not kept in Europe and therefore has no future due to way too low founder number and lack of interest of other zoos would not be anything that I could support. I don`t know if the RSCC is doing that. I hope there is much more behind it then just a rich guy who wants the rarest animals in his backyard. There is just not enough information for me to judge. Much more information and details would be most welcome!!

I assume you are affiliated with the RSCC?
 
Neofelis76 said:
Please all try to ask genuine and interested questions about RSCC and I will try to answer them when possible.
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If I can get the ball rolling with a question about a species in which I am especially interested: you were listed, recently as holding African civets. Was this correct? I presume, given their absence from the website, that even if it was correct the animals are no longer in Kent - would you be able to say where they have gone to? And would there be any chance of them coming to the RSCC (again)?

Neofelis76 said:
Malagasy Small Carnivores in very decent founder numbers
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...and on this note - what is the fanaloka situation? Are there more in the collection, or is it just the pair and youngster that were on show last year? A wonderful species, which it was a delight to be able to see.

I have many other questions, but I am sure others will have them too, so I so won't hog the opportunity!
 
Yassa said:
Importing just a single pair of animals that are not kept in Europe and therefore has no future due to way too low founder number and lack of interest of other zoos would not be anything that I could support.
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While I realise that your p-o-v is far more widely held than mine, I have to disagree! Who knows what path the future might take, which species may one day have a viable future in captivity?

And, even if not, I cannot see the harm in the (relatively) short term keeping of a species in captivity. If some of the RSCC residents were wild-caught in a Gerald Durrell, Overloaded Ark kind of way, then I have absolutely no problem at all with that: if, say, Sulawesi tarsiers are endangered in the wild, it is not because some have been captured for, in your words, "a rich guy who wants the rarest animals in his backyard", but rather because of loss of habitat.

I for one would be delighted to hear that further species had been taken from the wild, if they were to be kept in a good zoo, where they would have every chance of living long and 'happy' lives, and they could be admired and cherished by many.
 
As I just mentioned Yassa it does not help to speculate that the founder of RSCC is just a rich guy - not necessarily factual! Possibly rude to assume, perhaps just an individual who's passionate, in my last post I explained the RSCC ethos it was very clear. Many zoos want to work with the species we keep and that is our plan, it is already the case with many such as Sun Bear, Smooth Coated Otter, Palawan Bearcat, Banded Civet etc. Past Assumptions seem to be negative rather than positive, that is why RSCC haven't replied on this site. Again certainly happy to answer fair questions. If you read my last post you would see we don't bring in random animals in small numbers. I can't give every single fact about numbers or all origins in the collection but I did explain the focus and work in my last post. RSCCs work is closely monitored by DEFRA and JNCC and our projects are vetted, as I'm sure you are aware these days it's not really possible to just bring in random wild caught animals with no conservation purpose.

Sooty Mangabey RSCC have never had African Civet onsite, certainly a wonderful species but we do not have plans to keep them. RSCC were due to in the past but chose not to and to focus on Asian Civets. Fanaloka are still doing well and are due to receive more founders in the near future. They will then start to be sent to other collections, at minimum we try to ensure at least 6 founders to ensure a reasonable genetic base then try to add to this. For instance between us and Nashville we have 9 founder unrelated Banded Civets. 10 founder Palawan Bearcats as an example. As I said before it won't always be possible to reply to all questions in part due to work pressure.
 
Hi Neofelis76,

I think RSCC collection is great, especially as too many zoos are now focusing on limited well known 'ABC animals' and superficial education. And it is great that the owner is interested in breeding poorly known animals, rather than, say, buying expensive car or whatever.

It is inevitable that anything worth noticing acquires a rather unpleasant and unfounded criticism on the internet, so you can be proud that RSCC became established collection in the public mind. ;)
 
Neofelis,

I think it's positive when any establishment open to the public engages with it's public in the way that you have. I trust the moderators would remove anything spurious or damaging, but I for one would be happy to re-phrase something if asked directly.

I have respect for your work and hope it succeeds long-term. It's generous of you to offer to answer questions and, while I'm not on a personal quest for information, but I would like to ask whether you have plans/are you willing, either on your website or at the centre, to display information on the origins of all of the individuals (or even just species) held - ie. wild-caught founders for a new breeding program/ individuals from rescue centres/ individuals captive-bred in range countries/ captive-bred in other zoos? While I'm aware this is done with some species (such as the sun bears), your centre is unique in the UK in the number and quantity of wild-born mammal species imported in recent years, and I reiterate the point that I think this needs to not only be defendable, but also transparent and accountable, to a public that are accustomed to being able to assume the vast majority of the animals they see are captive-bred.

You might disagree with this of course, I mean the type of people who post here maybe aren't representative of your wider public, but I guess I speak as a member of the visiting public, that I would want the fact of holding species you've sought and acquired from range countries to mean also showing and justifying the detail of that, rather than presenting a broader picture of the scope of the work that you do. It is of course up to you to judge whether you see that as an outlier perspective or one that may carry some weight as a view more widely-held.

I'm not convinced it's enough to make the argument for importing founder stock on the basis that other zoos are interested in working with a species you've brought in. With zoos funding in situ work (including habitat protection), it's hard to make a case for establishing captive populations of tropical species in temperate zoos, given how many species don't have a good track record in captivity, and given that it's impractical in terms of space to do this comprehensively. Again, it is commendable to pioneer husbandry protocol for endangered species that haven't thrived or bred successfully in the past, but risky in terms of how to justify failure, especially if there are already in situ projects protecting the habitat of that species that could have been supported instead.

It's clearly pioneering work, and in my mind very much what an ex situ version of ZSL's Edge project might look like. But with new founders, I don't think it's incompatible with greater transparency around the rationale for their acquisition and the circumstances under which this took place.
 
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First things first, good to have some feedback and perspective coming from RSCC :) hopefully you will continue to occasionally come in to this end.

Neofelis76 said:
On that note RSCC has set up various breeding programs for species such as Banded Civet, Palawan Bearcat, Malagasy Small Carnivores in very decent founder numbers so that they can be distributed to various zoos and form a sustainable captive nucleus
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Neofelis76 said:
Fanaloka are still doing well and are due to receive more founders in the near future. They will then start to be sent to other collections, at minimum we try to ensure at least 6 founders to ensure a reasonable genetic base then try to add to this. For instance between us and Nashville we have 9 founder unrelated Banded Civets. 10 founder Palawan Bearcats as an example.
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This, I suspect, is one of the most important points for many of us :) it would be a great shame for unusual and seldom-appreciated species such as these to only be fleetingly present in captivity before once again dying off; having a strong and varied founder base naturally serves to protect against this. As such I am very pleased to hear this has been taken into consideration and put into practice.

One question.... I noted with interest that one of the species planned to come into the collection will be Giant Otter; this is a very appealing species and one many people (including myself) will be very pleased to see in another European collection, especially if it entails fresh blood coming into the population. However - was there any consideration given to attempting one of their less-represented but equally-endangered cousins, such as Neotropical Otter (Lontra longicaudis) or Marine Otter (Lontra felina)?
 
Neofelis76 said:
... Please all try to ask genuine and interested questions about RSCC and I will try to answer them when possible.....
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Thank you contributing to this forum and for answering our questions; this is very much appreciated. I will definitely be returning to the RSCC when it reopens for this year’s season.

I have two questions please:-

• The tarsiers were not on exhibit on any of my four visits last year; will they be on show this year?

• I was told last year that there were plans to add pygmy hippopotamus to the collection; is this still the case?

Many thanks for your help.
 
Hi Neofelis, I also have some questions.

-How does the future of the aardwolves and cassowarys(how are the sexes there?) looks like? Do you plan to breed them?

-Where the giant otters will come from?

-To which subspecies your banded palm civet belongs? Are they the same as in Nashville?

I hope you can help me, thank you.
 
Dear All,

In response to a few questions, sorry but at present we are rather snowed under getting ready to reopen so apologies is replies are very slow for the next few months.

Giant Otter will be arriving in the next month or so, they are not new founder but we are part of the EEP so that will be coordinated by the studbook keeper. We do not plan to keep any other Otter species in the near future.

We do plan to keep Pygmy Hippo but most likely not until 2016.

We keep Hemigalus derbyanus from Sumatra, and yes Nashvilles are also the same and we are working together on the species by coordinated breeding. Other holders will follow...

Tarsier should be on show by May but it would be best to check our website as when they are on show it will be listed. We will only put on show if in the best interests of the animals, as they are delicate and prone to stress easily.

Northern Cassowary we have a young unrelated pair, we will try to breed we also plan to try to obtain more founders with other zoos in the near future.
They are about to move outside into their new enclosure this month.

We are changing many enclosures at present and building many new ones for smaller species plus various off show breeding facilities for species such as Rusty Spotted Cat, Palawan Bearcat, Banded Civet, Clouded Leopard etc.

All species we focus on which are seldom kept in other zoos we try to start with a good genetic base of founders and then work with other institutions. I think the view of an Ex Situ EDGE program is a good one and over time this will evolve we hope. In future we will work with more Malagasy carnivores, more small Asian Felids species and various new small carnivores, but generally we have a small specialist focus due to our size so we will not really be going far from that.

Best Regards
 
Neofelis76 said:
.....We do plan to keep Pygmy Hippo but most likely not until 2016........

Tarsier should be on show by May but it would be best to check our website as when they are on show it will be listed. We will only put on show if in the best interests of the animals, as they are delicate and prone to stress easily............
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Thank you very much for answering my two questions; this is much appreciated.

I’ll definitely visit again shortly after you reopen and then I’ll return when the tarsiers are on exhibit.

I look forward to seeing the pygmy hippos and the various other new arrivals in due course.
 
At the very time I was at RSCC the posts about it were flying on ZooChat. On March 4, 2015, I was generously granted a private tour of the facility. Owner and founder Todd Dalton had a lengthy discussion with me at the beginning and end of the tour. He assigned a senior keeper to give me a full tour (including some off scene areas) for about an hour and then I had an additional hour to just photograph on my own. As a result, I can say that RSCC is without a doubt one of my all time favorite zoos in the world and I support them 100 percent. Although it is reasonable to expect them to charge extra for special experiences like this, I should note that I was not charged extra because Todd is rightfully proud of his collection and enjoys showing it off to people like me who have a genuine interest. I presume the reason I was given off season access is because he knew I was coming from USA and would be gone for their official opening. I will post various observations, some based on comments here and some not.

Animal collection

I am surprised to read here about the bird collection, as I did not see any birds other than cassowary and flamingo. Clearly this unique facility has lots of surprises!

The giant otters have not arrived yet but I saw their nearly complete exhibit and it will be quite nice. Same with the new bush dog exhibit, which will be among the largest anywhere for that species (I did see those in their current exhibit).

Lots and lots of rusty spotted cats, which of course is fine for a cat lover like me!

I saw the ten day old banded civet, taken out of its incubator just for me.

I saw the tarsier in its off exhibit space. I had to don plastic booties over my shoes as I stepped in to prevent contamination. The inside was very hot and humid – they spray it down four times a day to maintain proper humidity. So I can assure you husbandry is first rate.

Future Developments

Without giving away any confidential revelations, I think I can post the following...

There is a raised boardwalk (maybe it has been there?) with two overnight huts. These look very nice and I think a lot of ZooChatters would enjoy an overnight stay.

Down the line (one year? two years?) there will be a new small carnivore area in a small wooded section near the entry road. May be some new species brought in that might cause me to return.

The entry building, which was still in a state of flux, will have some museum type exhibits. Not sure what exactly, but I think it will definitely add to the interest of the place.

A small enclosed space was under construction on one side of the tiger habitat. This will be an educational grotto about the threats to tigers from traditional Chinese medicine, etc.

Photo Policy

At no point in my discussion with Todd was there any mention about use or restrictions on my photography. I had already planned to send him a disc of images, but not because it was their policy or because he asked for it (which he did not). It is simply because I had such a great time and like him and his facility so much. I think a lot of zoo photo policies in fine print (maybe not here, but maybe here too) are just things the lawyers make the zoos print to protect themselves. Obviously there is no way RSCC is going to track anyone to see if they are emailing their photos. I think they just appreciate having images to use (I am presuming here), since unlike some of the big zoos they cannot afford a staff photographer.

Animal Sources and Conservation

With the exception of a few specialized rescue facilities, no zoo I know of lists the source of every animal on their displays and it is insane to suggest RSCC should do so. In a western country like the UK then I am sure they have to comply with a host of regulations, including CITES, which bans import of wild caught animals except under unusual circumstances. RSCC is not stripping the wild of rare animals. They come from rescue facilities or are bred in home countries and the captive born offspring are imported.

RSCC supports in situ field conservation of many of the species they hold and the owner told me the ultimate goal is to have some kind of conservation link to every species in the collection. This is far more than most big budget zoos do, I can assure you.

Conclusion

RSCC is one of the best and most unique zoological parks in the world and deserves the unqualified support of all ZooChatters. Yes the collection is brand new and thus the focus is still a bit in flux. This is perfectly understandable and to be expected, but I think already Todd is more or less settling on the final focus of Malagasy and Asian specimens (with a minor focus on South America).
 
An interesting report AD. I agree this is a unique place, which has my support and I'm sure that of the majority of zoochatters, many of whom would wish to distance themselves from some of the criticism aimed by some earlier in this thread.
This collection of rarities puts many major/established zoos to shame!
I have only been twice, but on my last visit in October, I found the staff to be among the most friendly and helpful I have known anywhere.
I can't wait to return and watch the place develop over the next few years!
 
Thank you for writing up a very interesting overview of this collection. Though I haven't been since I was quite young (and thus couldn't take the uniqueness of the place in fully), it sounds like a fantastic place and I can't wait to visit this July which is when I am next in the UK!
 
Arizona Docent said:
From what I understand, he is not EAZA accredited but does work with some of their breeding programs. I am not sure about BIAZA.
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It certainly could be accredited by both. If not, I wonder why? I don't know what goes in to becoming a member, but I would have thought most collections would want to.
 
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